Paul George says stupid things in defense of Ray Rice

[Ogaju]

NFL suspending him was a knee jerk reaction, they should have just done nothing because they just reopened the debate about their initial sanction. If they had done nothing I doubt that any team would have picked him up.

[Finkelskyhook]

I remember sometimes not using great judgment at 24 (Paul George).  It's a condition he may outgrow. 

I think Rice didn't make a bad decision, I think he actually made no decision.  He acted impulsively.  It is scary when a strong man (as many men do) reacts to his own anger by aggressing violently (over-reacting), even when the person they are aggressing against is significantly less powerful.  To me, it isn't that she's a woman, per se -- I'd feel the same if he did that to anyone with whom the power differential is significant.   Ray needs to re-train himself to react with restraint (meaning he needs to activate a thought process before/when emotions rise).  If attacked, the powerful individual should first defend (block), walk away, and then (if necessary) safely restrain the other individual.  If your anger/rage mechanism is tapped so easily, you've got a problem that will eventually result in someone being seriously hurt (perhaps a child next time).   Rice could easily have done lots more damage than was actually done in that elevator -- he, and she, are lucky.

That is not to say that I that I think it's easy for some people to control their own rage.  This is especially true if they, like millions of Americans, were either victims of, or witness to, domestic violence.  Models for how to deal with anger are important for children, and lacking such a model can have very bad results.   I definitely have some sympathy for Rice -- he probably does feel bad, and perhaps he is shocked by his own behavior.  I hope that he realizes that alcohol (which they've discussed played a big part in this) can further dull a person's ability to manage rage.  But the answer can't be as simple as stopping the drinking.  He probably has to dig deep if he's going to avoid ever losing control violently again. 

I hope he does work hard and get the right help -- some perpetrators actually do stop.  If she is committed to work with him, live with him, have their children live with him, all I can say is that I hope it never happens again.

TP ...This post shows a near perfect understanding of the issue. And if everyone were to take this approach instead of looking at it as a woman vs. man issue society will seek quicker and faster resolution. It is exactly what Neurotic said it is a domestic violence issue, if you make it sex neutral and instead make it a weak vs. strong issue one significant segment of society will feel less attacked and defensive and we will all work together to solve this issue.

The issue with approaching this as gender neutral is that the vast majority of victims are women, and the vast majority of abusers are men.

Its not a gender neutral problem. I really suggest you read the article that D.O.S. linked.

I read it and it is a very powerful article actually makes me want to rethink my position, but I bet you there are a lot of women who when they have the strength advantage over a man or a child in their family do physically abuse the men or children. So I believe that if we put this problem in the general context of domestic violence and not men abusing women we can get away from one very important segment of society thinking it is an assault on them.

I am a big proponent of dealing with the horrible truth in order to solve societal problems. We can just dump on these young men because it is PC but that will not solve the problem. What will solve this problem is facing some of the harsh truths and educating all concerned in order to avoid a situation where a man and women who are supposed to be in a loving relationship have to get to the point of going fist to fist with each other.

All of the above posts are superb. 

The league has gone extraordinarily out of their way to rehabilitate the images of many NFL players...Most notably Michael Vick.  I believe they did right by Vick and the other players they helped.  These are young people who made mistakes....Some terrible mistakes.   While putting on this dog and pony show they're currently dancing to...The NFL should be reaching out to Ray Rice and his wife instead of condemning them as scapegoats. 

[Finkelskyhook]

He obviously never should have said anything, but I think some of his underlying points aren't off base or all that out of whack.

Come on you're better than that. His underlying points are "don't ask for it" and "its
Care to defend those? I suppose you can back into saying "violence and escalation can be okay if you didn't start it".
mutual", but that's not what he said. Even beyond that, even when a woman escalates an argument you don't hit her with a left jab to the head.

And people wonder why battered women are so scared they won't be believed.

I agree with Moranis, and I think Fafnir misunderstands what PG means by 'if he aint tripping, I aint tripping'.  What he is saying is if she has forgiven him (if she aint tripping) then I aint tripping (then I forgive him) lets move on.

I actually give props to PG for coming out and saying what a whole lot of people feel but wont say because it aint PC right now. There are a lot of hypocrites out there.

Everyone that cheers for Kobe Bryant, Jared Sullinger, Chris Brown, and we can go on and on and on, and wants to rag on Ray Rice (because he is the disflavor of the month) is a hypocrite.
If she aint tripping, why are we tripping?

Thanks for the translation, Ogaju.  I had no idea what that tripping thing actually meant.

[moiso]

And I don't even like that translation.  I take it as if she isn't combative, I'm not combative.

[csfansince60s]

Get Catfished by guy *Check*
Knock up a hooker *check*
defend a scumbag *check*


Ha one of the biggest clowns in the NBA

You forgot George's banging of teammate Roy Hibbert's girlfriend. Great Teammate. That tore that locker room up so bad, they never recovered.

That was what Sir Lance (another piece of garbage) and Evan Turner fisticuffed about in a practice.

Stephenson called out Hibbert, saying he was butt-sore about George and his fiancee. ET stepped in, p---ed that Sir Lance would bring that to light in a team practice.

Class acts, Catfish and Sir Lance.

[nickagneta]

The lack of knowledge on the psychology and dynamics of domestic violence in this thread is astounding. Of course Janay forgave him and said everything was okay and stayed with him. It's what abuse victim's do. ALL THE TIME! And then they get abused again, and again, and again.

The only difference between this episode of DV and the thousands of others that occur in the country every week is it was caught entirely on tape. If people think this is any different than the vast majority of DV incidences, they are sorely mistaken.

Really disappointed by some with their comments in this thread that downplay DV and try to put the victim on trial. I guess for lawyers that would be expected because putting the victim on trial is what they do since lawyers only defend innocent people, but come on people!

Really? She spit at him? She hit him? Testicular fortitude talk? I mean wow! The man is an incredibly strong professional athlete who hit a 120 person knocking them clear off their feet. He got off easy from law enforcement, as most stars and DV abusers do.

[csfansince60s]

The lack of knowledge on the psychology and dynamics of domestic violence in this thread is astounding. Of course Janay forgave him and said everything was okay and stayed with him. It's what abuse victim's do. ALL THE TIME! And then they get abused again, and again, and again.

The only difference between this episode of DV and the thousands of others that occur in the country every week is it was caught entirely on tape. If people think this is any different than the vast majority of DV incidences, they are sorely mistaken.

Really disappointed by some with their comments in this thread that downplay DV and try to put the victim on trial. I guess for lawyers that would be expected because putting the victim on trial is what they do since lawyers only defend innocent people, but come on people!

Really? She spit at him? She hit him? Testicular fortitude talk? I mean wow! The man is an incredibly strong professional athlete who hit a 120 person knocking them clear off their feet. He got off easy from law enforcement, as most stars and DV abusers do.

TP, Nick.....words of wisdom as usual....and hopefully you were only referring to defense attorneys and not prosecutors.

[Tr1boy]

The lack of knowledge on the psychology and dynamics of domestic violence in this thread is astounding. Of course Janay forgave him and said everything was okay and stayed with him. It's what abuse victim's do. ALL THE TIME! And then they get abused again, and again, and again.

The only difference between this episode of DV and the thousands of others that occur in the country every week is it was caught entirely on tape. If people think this is any different than the vast majority of DV incidences, they are sorely mistaken.

Really disappointed by some with their comments in this thread that downplay DV and try to put the victim on trial. I guess for lawyers that would be expected because putting the victim on trial is what they do since lawyers only defend innocent people, but come on people!

Really? She spit at him? She hit him? Testicular fortitude talk? I mean wow! The man is an incredibly strong professional athlete who hit a 120 person knocking them clear off their feet. He got off easy from law enforcement, as most stars and DV abusers do.

If you were in an elevator and you got into an argument with a lady (physically weaker than you) you don't know her, she starts to hit you and spit on you what will you do?

Can she go to jail/be fined for her actions?

I think you know where i'm going with this.  Some of us are stating the obvious, what rice a person 2 times the size and strength did to her is wrong regardless.   Yet some ppl are overlooking her violent actions (and others that are weaker in a similar situation) bc they are not as big and strong. So it's a pass.    Well it's not. Its still a violent act and she should of kept her composure. He should of kept his composure. If they both did, i bet nothing happens outside of alot of yelling

And for you to also predict that he abuses her at home without knowing that , that is the truth, is horrible to say.   That is like saying , someone who has served time for a crime they committed, but when they come out are already labelled as a thief etc. 

[nickagneta]

The lack of knowledge on the psychology and dynamics of domestic violence in this thread is astounding. Of course Janay forgave him and said everything was okay and stayed with him. It's what abuse victim's do. ALL THE TIME! And then they get abused again, and again, and again.

The only difference between this episode of DV and the thousands of others that occur in the country every week is it was caught entirely on tape. If people think this is any different than the vast majority of DV incidences, they are sorely mistaken.

Really disappointed by some with their comments in this thread that downplay DV and try to put the victim on trial. I guess for lawyers that would be expected because putting the victim on trial is what they do since lawyers only defend innocent people, but come on people!

Really? She spit at him? She hit him? Testicular fortitude talk? I mean wow! The man is an incredibly strong professional athlete who hit a 120 person knocking them clear off their feet. He got off easy from law enforcement, as most stars and DV abusers do.

If you were in an elevator and you got into an argument with a lady (physically weaker than you) you don't know her, she starts to hit you and spit on you what will you do?

Can she go to jail/be fined for her actions?

I think you know where i'm going with this.  Some of us are stating the obvious, what rice a person 2 times the size and strength did to her is wrong regardless.   Yet some ppl keep excusing her (and others that are weaker in a similar situation) bc they are not as big and strong. So it's a pass.    Well it's not. Its still a violent act and she should of kept her composure. He should of kept his composure. If they both did, i bet nothing happens outside of alot of yelling

And for you to also predict that he abuses her at home without knowing that , that is the truth, is horrible to say.   That is as bad as saying , someone who has served time for a crime they committed, but when they come out are already labelled as a thief etc.

I was married to an advocate of victims for DV. Over 15+ years of seeing my kids ask the same questions you are asking let's me know that like them, you have no clue what you are talking about.

If Rice never hit her, the elevator opens and he has a choice, call casino security and press charges against her for DV or walk away, leave her alone, call her on the phone, tell her if she ever lifts a finger to touch him he will press charges and leave her forever and go forward from there.

That's the answer to confrontational avoidance. You walk away or call the authorities to make it stop. Its really that simple.

[Ogaju]

The lack of knowledge on the psychology and dynamics of domestic violence in this thread is astounding. Of course Janay forgave him and said everything was okay and stayed with him. It's what abuse victim's do. ALL THE TIME! And then they get abused again, and again, and again.

The only difference between this episode of DV and the thousands of others that occur in the country every week is it was caught entirely on tape. If people think this is any different than the vast majority of DV incidences, they are sorely mistaken.

Really disappointed by some with their comments in this thread that downplay DV and try to put the victim on trial. I guess for lawyers that would be expected because putting the victim on trial is what they do since lawyers only defend innocent people, but come on people!

Really? She spit at him? She hit him? Testicular fortitude talk? I mean wow! The man is an incredibly strong professional athlete who hit a 120 person knocking them clear off their feet. He got off easy from law enforcement, as most stars and DV abusers do.

Of course he did get off easy, so why isn't anyone going after law enforcement? Why is everyone going after the NFL? The NFL does not owe us anything, it is a business and will only respond to what is in the best interest of its business model. The best thing for the business based on what was out there was to hit him with 2 game suspension and move on. It was working until the video changed the facts, and as usual the NFL will do what is best for it given the facts we all now know.

Law enforcement is a totally different issue, they failed in their job to bring justice to the perpetrator of this act. They had the video, they saw the video, they should have interviewed the victim though I do not think they needed it with the video evidence. Did Ray marry her to keep her off the stand using the marital privilege? Would she have damaged the State's case if compelled to testify? A strong prosecutor goes after him and her for obstruction of justice if she lied. However, we all know how celebrity justice is different from what the average person gets.

So, my point is I don't know why NFL is getting all the heat and Law Enforcement is getting a pass. NFL even got a letter from Democrats on the Judiciary committee of the House of Reps. Why hasn't the prosecutor's office charged with enforcing the laws come under any heat for 'letting this one go'?

As far as the psychology of DV, that should be for another thread.

[Tr1boy]

The lack of knowledge on the psychology and dynamics of domestic violence in this thread is astounding. Of course Janay forgave him and said everything was okay and stayed with him. It's what abuse victim's do. ALL THE TIME! And then they get abused again, and again, and again.

The only difference between this episode of DV and the thousands of others that occur in the country every week is it was caught entirely on tape. If people think this is any different than the vast majority of DV incidences, they are sorely mistaken.

Really disappointed by some with their comments in this thread that downplay DV and try to put the victim on trial. I guess for lawyers that would be expected because putting the victim on trial is what they do since lawyers only defend innocent people, but come on people!

Really? She spit at him? She hit him? Testicular fortitude talk? I mean wow! The man is an incredibly strong professional athlete who hit a 120 person knocking them clear off their feet. He got off easy from law enforcement, as most stars and DV abusers do.

If you were in an elevator and you got into an argument with a lady (physically weaker than you) you don't know her, she starts to hit you and spit on you what will you do?

Can she go to jail/be fined for her actions?

I think you know where i'm going with this.  Some of us are stating the obvious, what rice a person 2 times the size and strength did to her is wrong regardless.   Yet some ppl keep excusing her (and others that are weaker in a similar situation) bc they are not as big and strong. So it's a pass.    Well it's not. Its still a violent act and she should of kept her composure. He should of kept his composure. If they both did, i bet nothing happens outside of alot of yelling

And for you to also predict that he abuses her at home without knowing that , that is the truth, is horrible to say.   That is as bad as saying , someone who has served time for a crime they committed, but when they come out are already labelled as a thief etc.

I was married to an advocate of victims for DV. Over 15+ years of seeing my kids ask the same questions you are asking let's me know that like them, you have no clue what you are talking about.

If Rice never hit her, the elevator opens and he has a choice, call casino security and press charges against her for DV or walk away, leave her alone, call her on the phone, tell her if she ever lifts a finger to touch him he will press charges and leave her forever and go forward from there.

That's the answer to confrontational avoidance. You walk away or call the authorities to make it stop. Its really that simple.

So bc you are/were married to someone who dealt with this situation, this matter makes you an expert?  can you get off your high horse , please

How do you know i'm not a counsellor regarding this matter??   

To me you think you have a clue on this issue, but really your the one that doesn't.   You try to represent Janay, a way you think she wants to be represented. You think you know her when you clearly don't

You think you know what he does after the camera is put down , but you don't, nobody here does.  Bc some victims unfortunately get abused on a regular basis, one violant act equates to consistent acts.  Whats next, bc i had a beer today, i'm probably an alchoholic??

come on man.

[blink]

The involvement of law enforcement in this case is what has me baffled as well.  I mean if they (LE) saw the tape, don't they have an obligation to bring charges against rice?  From what I have read it is because he is a 1st time offender, and was offered a Pre-Trial Intervention program that requires attendance in a rehabilitation program and will eventually remove this from his record.

So my question is, when the act is so violent, why would the DA allow the pre-trial intervention?
I mean do you have to put someone in the hospital before a 1st time offender would be tried?

[Ogaju]

and if we social contracting population have decided that all he gets for that assault on his girlfriend is a pre-trial diversion why is the NFL under siege? Why is Goodell about to lose his job?

Note: If Goodell lied about the video he should resign, but other than that why is his job in jeopardy?

[D.o.s.]

The lack of knowledge on the psychology and dynamics of domestic violence in this thread is astounding. Of course Janay forgave him and said everything was okay and stayed with him. It's what abuse victim's do. ALL THE TIME! And then they get abused again, and again, and again.

The only difference between this episode of DV and the thousands of others that occur in the country every week is it was caught entirely on tape. If people think this is any different than the vast majority of DV incidences, they are sorely mistaken.

Really disappointed by some with their comments in this thread that downplay DV and try to put the victim on trial. I guess for lawyers that would be expected because putting the victim on trial is what they do since lawyers only defend innocent people, but come on people!

Really? She spit at him? She hit him? Testicular fortitude talk? I mean wow! The man is an incredibly strong professional athlete who hit a 120 person knocking them clear off their feet. He got off easy from law enforcement, as most stars and DV abusers do.

If you were in an elevator and you got into an argument with a lady (physically weaker than you) you don't know her, she starts to hit you and spit on you what will you do?

Can she go to jail/be fined for her actions?

I think you know where i'm going with this.  Some of us are stating the obvious, what rice a person 2 times the size and strength did to her is wrong regardless.   Yet some ppl keep excusing her (and others that are weaker in a similar situation) bc they are not as big and strong. So it's a pass.    Well it's not. Its still a violent act and she should of kept her composure. He should of kept his composure. If they both did, i bet nothing happens outside of alot of yelling

And for you to also predict that he abuses her at home without knowing that , that is the truth, is horrible to say.   That is as bad as saying , someone who has served time for a crime they committed, but when they come out are already labelled as a thief etc.

I was married to an advocate of victims for DV. Over 15+ years of seeing my kids ask the same questions you are asking let's me know that like them, you have no clue what you are talking about.

If Rice never hit her, the elevator opens and he has a choice, call casino security and press charges against her for DV or walk away, leave her alone, call her on the phone, tell her if she ever lifts a finger to touch him he will press charges and leave her forever and go forward from there.

That's the answer to confrontational avoidance. You walk away or call the authorities to make it stop. Its really that simple.

So bc you are/were married to someone who dealt with this situation, this matter makes you an expert?  can you get off your high horse , please

How do you know i'm not a counsellor regarding this matter??   

To me you think you have a clue on this issue, but really your the one that doesn't.   You try to represent Janay, a way you think she wants to be represented. You think you know her when you clearly don't

You think you know what he does after the camera is put down , but you don't, nobody here does.  Bc some victims unfortunately get abused on a regular basis, one violant act equates to consistent acts.  Whats next, bc i had a beer today, i'm probably an alchoholic??

come on man.

As politely as possible, I'd like to point out that Nick's position has been significantly more logical than yours so far in this thread.

[nickagneta]

triboy a counselor of DV?

How do I not know you aren't a counselor for DV, triboy. Because one, you can't even spell counselor properly and two, counselors in DV are called advocates.