Whats Stopping us from having a season like last years Phoenix Suns

[staticcc]

To start, no Goran Dragic and Channing Frye stretch 4?

[wiley]

Well what exactly defines "a season like last year's Phoenix Suns"? Is it the record? Is it being in a race for 8th? Is it approaching the bottom quarter of the league in attendance?

 I think the sentiment the OP was trying to evoke was one of over-achievement.  Most prognosticators felt the Suns would be one of the worst teams in the league last season.  They obviously were not.  Phoenix made some major strides last season, and a lot of that can be attributed to the growth of their young talent.  Phoenix did also get significant contributions from their experienced vets though too.

In order for Boston to replicate that, I think we'd need to see Sully and KO become more consistent outside shooters and for their overall games to grow.  Boston would also need notable performances from Rondo, Green and Bradley (vets).  Stylistically, it won't be the same, but the results could be similar.  And if he C's can approach Phoenix's win total from last year they might even make the playoffs in the East.  But mostly, I'm interested in player-growth.

Boston is at a point where they need their youth to improve and build up trade value (if nothing else).  They don't need to tank for more unproven rookies.  Another bad season would mean our assets continue to have marginal worth.  That has to change for the next jump to be made.

If the C's can approach Phoenix's win total they won't just make the playoffs they'll be like the 2cnd or third seed lol.   

I agree with the OP that the Celtics could be a much better team this year and look really good.  The problem is the Eastern conference should be way better on the whole.  That, imo, will keep the Celtics win total fairly low--maybe a better record than last year but still out of the playoffs.  If they do make the 8th seed though that would mean the system is clicking pretty well and the talent is coming along--they could be a gnarly, scrapping opponent in the first round due mainly to defense.

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

Talent. Specifically shooting talent but also the blend of talent. Its not going to happen.

This is very understandable but how many shooters did Suns REALLY have other than bledsoe and Dragic? Bradley, KO, Green, Thorton (thorton is PJ tucker without penetration) comes pretty [dang] close

Gerald Green shot 40% from deep last year.

Gerald Green only shot 31% from the 3 the year prior.. I completely understand the argument but at the same time did you expect Green to do that? if not i think AT LEAST it should bring some optimism to  the C's players. Im not looking for a "yes you are right it will happen"  "more of a " I can see why you have that theory"

[saltlover]

Well what exactly defines "a season like last year's Phoenix Suns"? Is it the record? Is it being in a race for 8th? Is it approaching the bottom quarter of the league in attendance?

 I think the sentiment the OP was trying to evoke was one of over-achievement.  Most prognosticators felt the Suns would be one of the worst teams in the league last season.  They obviously were not.  Phoenix made some major strides last season, and a lot of that can be attributed to the growth of their young talent.  Phoenix did also get significant contributions from their experienced vets though too.

In order for Boston to replicate that, I think we'd need to see Sully and KO become more consistent outside shooters and for their overall games to grow.  Boston would also need notable performances from Rondo, Green and Bradley (vets).  Stylistically, it won't be the same, but the results could be similar.  And if he C's can approach Phoenix's win total from last year they might even make the playoffs in the East.  But mostly, I'm interested in player-growth.

Boston is at a point where they need their youth to improve and build up trade value (if nothing else).  They don't need to tank for more unproven rookies.  Another bad season would mean our assets continue to have marginal worth.  That has to change for the next jump to be made.

If the C's can approach Phoenix's win total they won't just make the playoffs they'll be like the 2cnd or third seed lol.   

I agree with the OP that the Celtics could be a much better team this year and look really good.  The problem is the Eastern conference should be way better on the whole.  That, imo, will keep the Celtics win total fairly low--maybe a better record than last year but still out of the playoffs.  If they do make the 8th seed though that would mean the system is clicking pretty well and the talent is coming along--they could be a gnarly, scrapping opponent in the first round due mainly to defense.

I don't accept that last paragraph of your post.  The Eastern conference will not be "way" better.  There were all of two major talents to enter the Eastern Conference this year -- Gasol and Love.  Yes, Chicago and Cleveland should be better.  Miami and Indiana should be worse, and everyone else pretty much treaded water in terms of roster improvement based off last year.  Any improvement in the Eastern Conference will largely have to come from teams' internal growth. 

[Fafnir]

The Wizards and Raptors should also be better.

Heck if the C's keep Rondo I think they'll be better too, some other young teams could also progress. Bucks/Magic could certainly....not sure who else.

[mmmmm]

Bradley shot 40%(39.5) from 3 last season. Rondo will look 10x better in a non-tank season and since he's healthier. Rondo is going to make Zeller look GOOD. Olynyk, Bradley and Sullinger still have upside. Smart will at worst be high energy and play D as 3rd guard.

There's a huge range for how good they could be, but I think they have a very good shot to make the playoffs as 8th seed. I don't think a 2014 Suns-ish season is out of the question, a LOT of things would have to go right.

Bradley shot less than half as many three pointers as G. Green did last year.

Which Bradley are you talking about?  The one that started the season shooting excessive long 2PT jumpers?  Or the one that ended the season with his feet firmly outside the arc on those same shots?

Before the All Star break, Bradley shot just 3.4 3PA per 36.

After the All Star break, Bradley shot 5.5 3PA per 36.   

In April, he ended the season shooting 6.7 per 36 (hitting 52.9% of them!).

Not quite up there with the ridiculous 7.9 3PA per 36 that Gerald launched last year.  But a fair bit more than half that rate. 

And certainly a rate that should command a bit of attention from defenses if Bradley can maintain it at a reasonable efficiency (he doesn't have to keep hitting them at 52.9%, obviously).

[wiley]

Well what exactly defines "a season like last year's Phoenix Suns"? Is it the record? Is it being in a race for 8th? Is it approaching the bottom quarter of the league in attendance?

 I think the sentiment the OP was trying to evoke was one of over-achievement.  Most prognosticators felt the Suns would be one of the worst teams in the league last season.  They obviously were not.  Phoenix made some major strides last season, and a lot of that can be attributed to the growth of their young talent.  Phoenix did also get significant contributions from their experienced vets though too.

In order for Boston to replicate that, I think we'd need to see Sully and KO become more consistent outside shooters and for their overall games to grow.  Boston would also need notable performances from Rondo, Green and Bradley (vets).  Stylistically, it won't be the same, but the results could be similar.  And if he C's can approach Phoenix's win total from last year they might even make the playoffs in the East.  But mostly, I'm interested in player-growth.

Boston is at a point where they need their youth to improve and build up trade value (if nothing else).  They don't need to tank for more unproven rookies.  Another bad season would mean our assets continue to have marginal worth.  That has to change for the next jump to be made.

If the C's can approach Phoenix's win total they won't just make the playoffs they'll be like the 2cnd or third seed lol.   

I agree with the OP that the Celtics could be a much better team this year and look really good.  The problem is the Eastern conference should be way better on the whole.  That, imo, will keep the Celtics win total fairly low--maybe a better record than last year but still out of the playoffs.  If they do make the 8th seed though that would mean the system is clicking pretty well and the talent is coming along--they could be a gnarly, scrapping opponent in the first round due mainly to defense.

I don't accept that last paragraph of your post.  The Eastern conference will not be "way" better.  There were all of two major talents to enter the Eastern Conference this year -- Gasol and Love.  Yes, Chicago and Cleveland should be better.  Miami and Indiana should be worse, and everyone else pretty much treaded water in terms of roster improvement based off last year.  Any improvement in the Eastern Conference will largely have to come from teams' internal growth.

It's true Indiana and Miami will be worse.  Cleveland can be the new Miami and Charlotte may be ready to be elite.  As Faf said the Wizards and Raptors should be better.  A healthy Atlanta will not have a losing record imo.  NY should be better.  NJ may be better.  Basically, I expect fewer losses in the conference this year and it will take more wins than last year to be the 8th seed....oh, and Chicago could have a great year.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

Get rid of the C's bad players and get good players similar to the ones on the Phoenix Suns would be my suggestion. The Celtics are bad, very bad, and the Suns are good so that is probably what is stopping the C's from having a season like last years Phoenix Suns.

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

Get rid of the C's bad players and get good players similar to the ones on the Phoenix Suns would be my suggestion. The Celtics are bad, very bad, and the Suns are good so that is probably what is stopping the C's from having a season like last years Phoenix Suns.

Pointless comment. you pretty much said 1+2=3 so 3-2=1 .. thanks Captain Obvious

[D.o.s.]

Bradley shot 40%(39.5) from 3 last season. Rondo will look 10x better in a non-tank season and since he's healthier. Rondo is going to make Zeller look GOOD. Olynyk, Bradley and Sullinger still have upside. Smart will at worst be high energy and play D as 3rd guard.

There's a huge range for how good they could be, but I think they have a very good shot to make the playoffs as 8th seed. I don't think a 2014 Suns-ish season is out of the question, a LOT of things would have to go right.

Bradley shot less than half as many three pointers as G. Green did last year.

Which Bradley are you talking about?  The one that started the season shooting excessive long 2PT jumpers?  Or the one that ended the season with his feet firmly outside the arc on those same shots?

Before the All Star break, Bradley shot just 3.4 3PA per 36.

After the All Star break, Bradley shot 5.5 3PA per 36.   

In April, he ended the season shooting 6.7 per 36 (hitting 52.9% of them!).

Not quite up there with the ridiculous 7.9 3PA per 36 that Gerald launched last year.  But a fair bit more than half that rate. 

And certainly a rate that should command a bit of attention from defenses if Bradley can maintain it at a reasonable efficiency (he doesn't have to keep hitting them at 52.9%, obviously).

I'm talking about the Bradley attempted 200 three point shots last year, compared to Green's 510. Of course, Green managed to play in 22 more games than AB did, but we can assume that hitting 204 out of 510 is slightly more substantial a sample size than 79 out of 200, yes?


There's also the fact that you really don't need to use per 36 numbers to compare them, since they were both playing right around 30 MPG last season.

On the other hand, the Celtics went through an incredible amount of roster turnover last season, so it's possible that Bradley's three point shooting will be less encumbered this year.

And I do take your point -- Bradley stopped taking a dribble and a sidestep inside the line after the trade deadline. Whether he keeps that up remains to be seen.

[mgent]

Talent. Specifically shooting talent but also the blend of talent. Its not going to happen.

This is very understandable but how many shooters did Suns REALLY have other than bledsoe and Dragic? Bradley, KO, Green, Thorton (thorton is PJ tucker without penetration) comes pretty [dang] close

Gerald Green shot 40% from deep last year.

Gerald Green only shot 31% from the 3 the year prior.. I completely understand the argument but at the same time did you expect Green to do that? if not i think AT LEAST it should bring some optimism to  the C's players. Im not looking for a "yes you are right it will happen"  "more of a " I can see why you have that theory"

We don't have a player that is even going to ATTEMPT anywhere near the number of 3s as Green did last year, so it doesn't really make sense to be optimistic about one of our players shooting as well from deep as he did last year.

You also might take into consideration that Green shot 37% from deep his first 3 years in the league, and then 39% his first year back in the league with the Nets, rather than just that year in Indiana where nothing went right for him.  I guess the fact that Green shot better than 31% from 3 surprises you more than it does others.  He's been known as a good shooter in practice his whole career, and not just spot up shooting, but off the dribble as well.  His shot selection on the other hand has been questioned in the past (and shot selection is the biggest factor in shooting percentage).

[mgent]

Bradley shot 40%(39.5) from 3 last season. Rondo will look 10x better in a non-tank season and since he's healthier. Rondo is going to make Zeller look GOOD. Olynyk, Bradley and Sullinger still have upside. Smart will at worst be high energy and play D as 3rd guard.

There's a huge range for how good they could be, but I think they have a very good shot to make the playoffs as 8th seed. I don't think a 2014 Suns-ish season is out of the question, a LOT of things would have to go right.

Bradley shot less than half as many three pointers as G. Green did last year.

Which Bradley are you talking about?  The one that started the season shooting excessive long 2PT jumpers?  Or the one that ended the season with his feet firmly outside the arc on those same shots?

Before the All Star break, Bradley shot just 3.4 3PA per 36.

After the All Star break, Bradley shot 5.5 3PA per 36.   

In April, he ended the season shooting 6.7 per 36 (hitting 52.9% of them!).

Not quite up there with the ridiculous 7.9 3PA per 36 that Gerald launched last year.  But a fair bit more than half that rate. 

And certainly a rate that should command a bit of attention from defenses if Bradley can maintain it at a reasonable efficiency (he doesn't have to keep hitting them at 52.9%, obviously).

Avery Bradley.  There's only one of them.  What he does over the entire season matters.

And what he did was attempt less 3s than Green made.

[flybono]

Talent

[MBunge]

Get rid of the C's bad players and get good players similar to the ones on the Phoenix Suns would be my suggestion. The Celtics are bad, very bad, and the Suns are good so that is probably what is stopping the C's from having a season like last years Phoenix Suns.

Pointless comment. you pretty much said 1+2=3 so 3-2=1 .. thanks Captain Obvious

Nobody thought those Suns players were all that good before the season started.

Mike

[Rondo9]

Bradley shot 40%(39.5) from 3 last season. Rondo will look 10x better in a non-tank season and since he's healthier. Rondo is going to make Zeller look GOOD. Olynyk, Bradley and Sullinger still have upside. Smart will at worst be high energy and play D as 3rd guard.

There's a huge range for how good they could be, but I think they have a very good shot to make the playoffs as 8th seed. I don't think a 2014 Suns-ish season is out of the question, a LOT of things would have to go right.

Bradley shot less than half as many three pointers as G. Green did last year.

Which Bradley are you talking about?  The one that started the season shooting excessive long 2PT jumpers?  Or the one that ended the season with his feet firmly outside the arc on those same shots?

Before the All Star break, Bradley shot just 3.4 3PA per 36.

After the All Star break, Bradley shot 5.5 3PA per 36.   

In April, he ended the season shooting 6.7 per 36 (hitting 52.9% of them!).

Not quite up there with the ridiculous 7.9 3PA per 36 that Gerald launched last year.  But a fair bit more than half that rate. 

And certainly a rate that should command a bit of attention from defenses if Bradley can maintain it at a reasonable efficiency (he doesn't have to keep hitting them at 52.9%, obviously).

Avery Bradley.  There's only one of them.  What he does over the entire season matters.

And what he did was attempt less 3s than Green made.

He already acknowledged that, he just saying how Bradley improved over the season and became a more efficient 3 point shooter.