Avery Bradley: 2nd best SG in the Eastern Conference

[mmmmm]

Bradley's ranking in 2014 among shooting guards only......

Scoring 19th....he shoots a lot for a bad team.
Rebounds 6th....very good.
Steals 15th...the thing he does well.
Assists 53rd....he's a terrible passer.
Turnovers per game 78th.....Yikes!
FG% 35th....he's not a good shooter.
FT% 43rd....that one surprised me.

Ainge should not have given Bradley a big contract.

Well, context is important. 

FG% is kind of inadequate as a measure for reasons discussed earlier in the thread.  Especially for SGs who tend to be a position that takes a lot of 3PT shots.

And 'per game' averages for the year are really hard to compare across players on different teams who may have had different roles and played different minutes.

If you look at his numbers after they stopped the madness of playing him at PG and let him concentrate on just playing off the ball (you know, as an SG), they improved pretty dramatically and steadily through the year.

Especially with shooting.  After the AS break his FG% was 45.1%, his 3PT% was 47.1% and his FT% was 96%.   I suspect those numbers would rank pretty high on the your list.

Obviously, his true, sustainable shooting rates are probably not going to stay at those high rates.  But they don't have to be that high for him to be valuable and effective.

Not sure I'm ready to anoint Bradley as one of the top SGs just yet.  But he's young and he has a lot of talent.  Remember, this kid was considered one of the top 2 players in the nation coming out of high school in his class.   He just needs to stay healthy and play in a consistent role (with hopefully a consistent lineup around him).

[Beat LA]

Came here to post this:



Shame that Battier drilled that corner three.

That play never gets old, TP.  It's hard to find someone to compare Bradley too, but I just thought of this today (why?  I have no idea haha.) - is AB a slightly taller version of Dee Brown, only, in place of ball handling (a facet of the game at which Brown was only marginally better, imo), Avery has more range?  Just wondering.

[Smitty77]

This is what keeps me coming back, you think you saw the most ridiculous thread that could ever be created but sure enough on the next visit an even more insanely ludicrous thread has been created. I still maintain that the people creating these threads are either joking or a fan of another team, it is the only logical explanation. Forget about the litany of eastern conference shooting guards that are clearly way better than Avery Bradley, you are actually suggesting that Avery Bradley is better than Bradley Beal, this is how I know it is a joke thread. It is all a mute point anyway since Avery Bradley plays half the games in a season if you are lucky.

Wow, Beal played in a whopping 13 MORE games than AB this year.  Bradley had a very below average 14.3 PER, yet EVERYONE seems to think of him as an All-Star!!!??  That is what I call ridiculous!!!!!  You really think that AB playing in 13 less games and having a 1.5 lower PER is not easily trumped by his FAR SUPERIOR defense compared to Beal??  The FACT that you and others don't appreciate the All-NBA defense that Avery provides is the epitomy of ridiculous!!!

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

He's probably top 15 in the league. His lack of handles hurts him a alot.
I also can't see James Young being a Bradley replacement, and I remember the day after the draft Ainge specifically said Young is a small forward, not a shooting guard.

I do believe Harden is the best SG in the NBA now, and it's because of how poor the position is in general. Wade and Kobe in their primes put Harden to shame- I've always believed a good SG should be able to create their own shot off the dribble and get to the free throw line, but also play off the ball. Harden doesn't really play off the ball as much as he could, preferring to hang around the perimeter instead of slashing- which is what I love about Bradley.

Depending how well Marcus Smart's shot comes along, we may have just drafted the next best shooting guard in the NBA
He's going to slash, he can attack off the dribble and he can get to the free throw line. If he can shoot 45%+ then we are laughing. Wade's never been a great shooter and he was easily the best SG in the world for quite a few years save injuries.

Totally agree Chambers.  Smart might be really good:-))

Smitty77

[incoherent]

Wade and Stephenson both were better then Avery last year but I think there's a chance Avery could pass them next season, Wade could break down and Lance might not play that great for the Hornets.  I kind of forgot about them. 

Beal isn't clearly better then Avery to me at all, they are really close if you look at the stats, tied in points per minute and AB is probably the better defender.

Joe Johnson is good but Avery has a chance to be the better all around player next season as Joe gets older.  They score about the same and Joe shoots slightly better but AB is better defender.

I don't think any of ABs competition is really a clear runaway winner for the 2nd best SG in the east, it's kind of up for grabs I think.. but I can see where some of you think Im crazy.

At worst Im putting AB 5th in the East if Beal manages to clearly outplay him, and if Wade isnt old and if Stephenson clicks with his new team. He could easily pass some of these people though if he gets enough touches on our team.

[fitzhickey]

I think you're overselling Bradley, tbh.

Beal is a superior ball handler and passer, as well as being much better at creating his own shot. Beal also hasn't had severe injuries. Bradley's defense has suffered quite a bit since KG has left, and his DRtg (109) was worse than Beal's (107).

Again, Johnson is a vastly superior ball handler and shot creator, as well as getting less turnovers than Bradley. I don't think Bradley is a better player when he shoots worse than Johnson, is a worse passer than Johnson and a worse scorer too.

I like Bradley, but he is 5th at best, behind at least:
DeRozan, Beal, Stephenson and Waiters.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I know I have asked this before but I think it should be discussed any time there is a thread on AB.

Why does AB never get extra points for having to take on a TOTALLY different role last season? All the other SG talked about in this thread were not only drafted to be either 1st or 2nd options on offense for their teams (except maybe Lance). They have been the man or the next man their entire NBA career, AB was so far away from being the man it's not even funny. In fact, AB was an afterthought offensively for his first 3 seasons, only last season was he even suppose to be known on offense! All Doc wanted AB to focus on is defense and hitting the occasional open shot. While Green scored more than AB, it wasn't much more and even then it's because Green had the occasional big game outburst. I remember AB leading the team in scoring when JCraw was the PG which gave AB the chance to do what was more natural to him. Then AB got injured and JCraw got shipped out. You ask other players to go from an afterthought to 1B and see how well they do.

People say, "somebody had to score" as if it's as simple as that. Hell, Green was 3rd his entire NBA career and 2nd (1st in the playoffs) the season before last and he struggled at switching just to first position. What has AB been, 5-7th to even nothing in his first few seasons as a young kid (he's only 23 going into season 5). He has worked his way through injuries and double shoulder surgeries to turn himself into a solid player.

It'd be easier to make light of AB offensively last season if he was already good offensively but let's be real, no one took AB's offense serious at all before last season. It's not as if anyone saw AB ever breaking out and being 1B on offense, I don't care how bad you thought the team would be. I bet if a poll was taken before last season, no one would have considered AB that high on offense. I'd almost guarantee people would say Green (a given), JCraw, Sully (probably votes for #2), GWallace, and Bass before they even thought about AB (would put RR after he got back). Not only that, they would probably even go with Kelly too LOL (no diss to him just saying he's a rookie big). 

I don't care if AB is the best or 2nd best really, I just want him to be his best for our benefit. I'd definitely be happy and brag about it if he does become it but, to me, he doesn't have to be for us to get what we need from him. Besides, he only gets paid 8m per, you really think he's suppose to be even top 5 at that price? If AB was top two just in the East alone, Danny robbed AB and his agent. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised when AB is in his prime and I also think we are going to eventually get a steal for 8m during his contract if he stays healthy.


Now this is a side question, can someone show me those same stats on the top SG in the league to see how they stack up in those categories against SG like was done for AB? I want to see if those stats really are bad for AB or if it's what you can expect for others as an all around player. I know AB was bad when it came to assist but I really want to know how his peers stack up in those categories too. You don't have to do all SGs but if you can, can you do some of the ones in the East because this is what this is about. I don't need to see defense because "you" clearly always leave it out when "you" discuss AB vs. the rest of them.

[Monkhouse]

I know I have asked this before but I think it should be discussed any time there is a thread on AB.

Why does AB never get extra points for having to take on a TOTALLY different role last season? All the other SG talked about in this thread were not only drafted to be either 1st or 2nd options on offense for their teams (except maybe Lance). They have been the man or the next man their entire NBA career, AB was so far away from being the man it's not even funny. In fact, AB was an afterthought offensively for his first 3 seasons, only last season was he even suppose to be known on offense! All Doc wanted AB to focus on is defense and hitting the occasional open shot. While Green scored more than AB, it wasn't much more and even then it's because Green had the occasional big game outburst. I remember AB leading the team in scoring when JCraw was the PG which gave AB the chance to do what was more natural to him. Then AB got injured and JCraw got shipped out. You ask other players to go from an afterthought to 1B and see how well they do.

People say, "somebody had to score" as if it's as simple as that. Hell, Green was 3rd his entire NBA career and 2nd (1st in the playoffs) the season before last and he struggled at switching just to first position. What has AB been, 5-7th to even nothing in his first few seasons as a young kid (he's only 23 going into season 5). He has worked his way through injuries and double shoulder surgeries to turn himself into a solid player.

It'd be easier to make light of AB offensively last season if he was already good offensively but let's be real, no one took AB's offense serious at all before last season. It's not as if anyone saw AB ever breaking out and being 1B on offense, I don't care how bad you thought the team would be. I bet if a poll was taken before last season, no one would have considered AB that high on offense. I'd almost guarantee people would say Green (a given), JCraw, Sully (probably votes for #2), GWallace, and Bass before they even thought about AB (would put RR after he got back). Not only that, they would probably even go with Kelly too LOL (no diss to him just saying he's a rookie big). 

I don't care if AB is the best or 2nd best really, I just want him to be his best for our benefit. I'd definitely be happy and brag about it if he does become it but, to me, he doesn't have to be for us to get what we need from him. Besides, he only gets paid 8m per, you really think he's suppose to be even top 5 at that price? If AB was top two just in the East alone, Danny robbed AB and his agent. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised when AB is in his prime and I also think we are going to eventually get a steal for 8m during his contract if he stays healthy.


Now this is a side question, can someone show me those same stats on the top SG in the league to see how they stack up in those categories against SG like was done for AB? I want to see if those stats really are bad for AB or if it's what you can expect for others as an all around player. I know AB was bad when it came to assist but I really want to know how his peers stack up in those categories too. You don't have to do all SGs but if you can, can you do some of the ones in the East because this is what this is about. I don't need to see defense because "you" clearly always leave it out when "you" discuss AB vs. the rest of them.

Unfortunately I'm on my break at my graveyard shift at my other job, and my phone is pretty bad.

But someone did post before, a table that showed the percentages of Dion Waiters, Bradley, and Bradley Beal.

As usual Bradley had the better defense, and his percentage was 2-3 points higher on eFG%, and had the best 3pt of the trio.

I do think people underestimate how well Bradley can play. He isn't offensively as gifted as Waiters, and I think Beal gets overrated, because his field goal percentage inside is only slightly better than Bradley/Waiters. Which isn't saying much, considering the fact the only player out of those three in my opinion, that can create their own shot is Waiters.

I do think there are a lot of improvements like reaching less on obvious foul calls, rebounding better, playing smarter defense, and taking better shots. Bradley has a great ability of shooting the mid range from a pick, and I would like that. Who cares if its the least effective shot... If he can make it, then you should take it... I also remember Bradley had an article on Celticsblog, where he had a very high percentage of 2's, which were very long ones, and all he needed to do was step back to make them turn into 3's.

I hope Bradley learns how to handle the ball better. I don't care if Bradley can't finish inside.. So what if he can't... Hes a SHOOTING GUARD. I also hope he learns how to pass better too. He gets a tad bit selfish at times, but its all part of a learning process. Unfortunately, I think Smart/Young in the future have a far greater ceiling than Bradley could ever have. I don't see Bradley staying any longer than 2-3 years with us.

Bradley I think is the perfect ideal player for 3 and D type of guy. Every contending team needs that in a player.

[D.o.s.]

Usually you want a 3 and D player who can guard everyone on the wing, not just point guards and smaller 2's, but I agree generally. He's not bad.

[Monkhouse]

Usually you want a 3 and D player who can guard everyone on the wing, not just point guards and smaller 2's, but I agree generally. He's not bad.

If I remember Bradley used to guard Gordon Hayward/Paul George when they were 2's. I also remember Jeff Clark wrote about how he limited their percentages far below their averages.

Yes you would hope for a guard that can protect the 1-3 positions. But regardless of the size, as long as Bradley can play great defense, and wear down players. I'm not too concerned about it. I do see James Young becoming a SF in the future. A player with that unlimited potential defensively, and great shooting mechanics in this day and age of basketball becomes a SF due to their size.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Hopefully James Young will be starting by the end of the year, and Bradley will be the highest paid backup two guard in the league.

Best case scenario is that James Young soaks up everything AB teaches him or uses against him in training camp/practice.

[mgent]

I know I have asked this before but I think it should be discussed any time there is a thread on AB.

Why does AB never get extra points for having to take on a TOTALLY different role last season? All the other SG talked about in this thread were not only drafted to be either 1st or 2nd options on offense for their teams (except maybe Lance). They have been the man or the next man their entire NBA career, AB was so far away from being the man it's not even funny. In fact, AB was an afterthought offensively for his first 3 seasons, only last season was he even suppose to be known on offense! All Doc wanted AB to focus on is defense and hitting the occasional open shot. While Green scored more than AB, it wasn't much more and even then it's because Green had the occasional big game outburst. I remember AB leading the team in scoring when JCraw was the PG which gave AB the chance to do what was more natural to him. Then AB got injured and JCraw got shipped out. You ask other players to go from an afterthought to 1B and see how well they do.

People say, "somebody had to score" as if it's as simple as that. Hell, Green was 3rd his entire NBA career and 2nd (1st in the playoffs) the season before last and he struggled at switching just to first position. What has AB been, 5-7th to even nothing in his first few seasons as a young kid (he's only 23 going into season 5). He has worked his way through injuries and double shoulder surgeries to turn himself into a solid player.

It'd be easier to make light of AB offensively last season if he was already good offensively but let's be real, no one took AB's offense serious at all before last season. It's not as if anyone saw AB ever breaking out and being 1B on offense, I don't care how bad you thought the team would be. I bet if a poll was taken before last season, no one would have considered AB that high on offense. I'd almost guarantee people would say Green (a given), JCraw, Sully (probably votes for #2), GWallace, and Bass before they even thought about AB (would put RR after he got back). Not only that, they would probably even go with Kelly too LOL (no diss to him just saying he's a rookie big). 

I don't care if AB is the best or 2nd best really, I just want him to be his best for our benefit. I'd definitely be happy and brag about it if he does become it but, to me, he doesn't have to be for us to get what we need from him. Besides, he only gets paid 8m per, you really think he's suppose to be even top 5 at that price? If AB was top two just in the East alone, Danny robbed AB and his agent. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised when AB is in his prime and I also think we are going to eventually get a steal for 8m during his contract if he stays healthy.


Now this is a side question, can someone show me those same stats on the top SG in the league to see how they stack up in those categories against SG like was done for AB? I want to see if those stats really are bad for AB or if it's what you can expect for others as an all around player. I know AB was bad when it came to assist but I really want to know how his peers stack up in those categories too. You don't have to do all SGs but if you can, can you do some of the ones in the East because this is what this is about. I don't need to see defense because "you" clearly always leave it out when "you" discuss AB vs. the rest of them.

I understand your point, but hasn't Avery been "the man" in every organized or pick-up game he played in before entering the NBA?

Having to take shots shouldn't be a completely new concept to him, regardless of how few he took his first 2 years.

[Fred Roberts]

Bradley is solid on both ends. If he's the second best 2 guard in the East, it isn't by much .. .and that's even with a big step up.

Stephenson seems like a better overall player, given size, range, ball handling and crazy.

DeRozan is doing well. In prime.

D Wade will be hit or miss. I'd rather have Bradley at this point bc he's on the upswing of his career but D Wade could pull a rabbit out and have a good year.

Beal has a super sweet jumper. Love it. I'd probably take him over Avery.

Waiters .. . sounds like he's a one way player.

Dunno . .. I'd say it'll be an interesting (hopefully) topic to monitor this season.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I know I have asked this before but I think it should be discussed any time there is a thread on AB.

Why does AB never get extra points for having to take on a TOTALLY different role last season? All the other SG talked about in this thread were not only drafted to be either 1st or 2nd options on offense for their teams (except maybe Lance). They have been the man or the next man their entire NBA career, AB was so far away from being the man it's not even funny. In fact, AB was an afterthought offensively for his first 3 seasons, only last season was he even suppose to be known on offense! All Doc wanted AB to focus on is defense and hitting the occasional open shot. While Green scored more than AB, it wasn't much more and even then it's because Green had the occasional big game outburst. I remember AB leading the team in scoring when JCraw was the PG which gave AB the chance to do what was more natural to him. Then AB got injured and JCraw got shipped out. You ask other players to go from an afterthought to 1B and see how well they do.

People say, "somebody had to score" as if it's as simple as that. Hell, Green was 3rd his entire NBA career and 2nd (1st in the playoffs) the season before last and he struggled at switching just to first position. What has AB been, 5-7th to even nothing in his first few seasons as a young kid (he's only 23 going into season 5). He has worked his way through injuries and double shoulder surgeries to turn himself into a solid player.

It'd be easier to make light of AB offensively last season if he was already good offensively but let's be real, no one took AB's offense serious at all before last season. It's not as if anyone saw AB ever breaking out and being 1B on offense, I don't care how bad you thought the team would be. I bet if a poll was taken before last season, no one would have considered AB that high on offense. I'd almost guarantee people would say Green (a given), JCraw, Sully (probably votes for #2), GWallace, and Bass before they even thought about AB (would put RR after he got back). Not only that, they would probably even go with Kelly too LOL (no diss to him just saying he's a rookie big). 

I don't care if AB is the best or 2nd best really, I just want him to be his best for our benefit. I'd definitely be happy and brag about it if he does become it but, to me, he doesn't have to be for us to get what we need from him. Besides, he only gets paid 8m per, you really think he's suppose to be even top 5 at that price? If AB was top two just in the East alone, Danny robbed AB and his agent. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised when AB is in his prime and I also think we are going to eventually get a steal for 8m during his contract if he stays healthy.


Now this is a side question, can someone show me those same stats on the top SG in the league to see how they stack up in those categories against SG like was done for AB? I want to see if those stats really are bad for AB or if it's what you can expect for others as an all around player. I know AB was bad when it came to assist but I really want to know how his peers stack up in those categories too. You don't have to do all SGs but if you can, can you do some of the ones in the East because this is what this is about. I don't need to see defense because "you" clearly always leave it out when "you" discuss AB vs. the rest of them.

I understand your point, but hasn't Avery been "the man" in every organized or pick-up game he played in before entering the NBA?

Having to take shots shouldn't be a completely new concept to him, regardless of how few he took his first 2 years.

Almost every NBA player was the man at every level before they stepped up too, you wouldn't expect say,  Perkins to do what AB has, would you?  I'd bet money he has been the man and dominated a lot of his life.   The list goes on and on! We are talking about the NBA. If you think it's as simple (like I said before) as just shooting and making them then everyone would do it!  He deserves props for being a nobody on offense and going to 1B! AB couldn't even hit the ocean in college but he has worked his butt off to become solid and he's only 23 with room to get better.  I'm not ?aying he did something new, I'm saying he deserves credit where those other guys only did what was expected of them day one (good in their own right but not something new for them). Then add on injury recoveries. I don't really think AB will be 2nd, 3rd, or 4th but I am a fan so I'll be hoping for it. It's definitely not as big a leap as people make it though, he gets better handles dish out 2 more assists, and continue to pick up 4 rbs (people are kidding me, he was getting like .2 less than 4 which would put him up a few spots), and he goes back to shooting 2s well like before the injury and JCraw being shipped out, then he's in the convo. Not a big stretch, personally I'd give it more than next season (I'm thinking prime AB), either way it won't be from a lack of effort if he never becomes one of the top in the next few seasons. I know if he does, he won't be getting paid like it.

I'll still be looking for what AB really has to do to be in the convo,  I want to see how the top East SGs did in those 5 or so categories. Not against AB but against all SG like ABs stats were. No excuse for the assists but was his all around as bad as I think the people who post them suggest? Are all the top SGs in the top 10 in most or all of those categories, are most of them all over in each of those categories? I want to see the bar, that many think is laughable for AB to reach, I just want a better picture... maybe he is as bad as most think (5m is not what his play deserves but that's how much people wanted to pay him).

[Smitty77]

Bradley is solid on both ends. If he's the second best 2 guard in the East, it isn't by much .. .and that's even with a big step up.

Stephenson seems like a better overall player, given size, range, ball handling and crazy.

DeRozan is doing well. In prime.

D Wade will be hit or miss. I'd rather have Bradley at this point bc he's on the upswing of his career but D Wade could pull a rabbit out and have a good year.

Beal has a super sweet jumper. Love it. I'd probably take him over Avery.

Waiters .. . sounds like he's a one way player.

Dunno . .. I'd say it'll be an interesting (hopefully) topic to monitor this season.

Do you factor in the apparent FACT that Lance pushed his girlfriend down a flight of stairs and then was NOT satisfied with that, so he apparently slammed her hear against the bottom step for good measure, simply because she would not answer the phone!!!

http://gothamist.com/2010/08/17/stephenson_beat_girlfriend_because.php

Smitty77