Author Topic: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention  (Read 34106 times)

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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2014, 09:10:22 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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These amendments have been proposed, discussed and seconded and will therefore be voted on during the week of Sep. 15 on the Yahoo! league site.

additions in bold italic red
deletions are bold and struckthrough



Constitutional Amendment #1 (new article)
-------------------------------
Article 19. Each team may have a maximum of 2 players listed as N/A in the Y! system and/or overseas players as described in #18 above.

Proposed by Gainesville Celtic, seconded by THE Walker Wiggle



Before I  third this....are guys injured for the year considered N/A? They're not right? Like Joel Embiid wouldn't count in this scenario, but....um...Dario Saric would. Right?


I touched on this earlier:



Proposed Amendment #2:
-------------------------------

NEW Article 19. Each team may have a maximum of 2 players listed as N/A in the Y! system and/or overseas players as described in #18 above.


Also just wanted to clarify -- since this came up in discussions toward the end of last year -- there are no (and i'm not proposing) any restictions on the number of players listed as INJ a team can carry.


I will amend the language to be clear before we vote next week, but here are i think the 3 kinds of players that we'll deal with:

1. Injured players -- Like Embid, Paul George (sorry Mk), Greg Oden, etc. There is no limit to the number of injured players a team can carry as long as they are not listed as N/A in Yahoo! Often Yahoo! lists injured players with a red INJ but b/c the NBA doesn't have a formal DL (like baseball) this is a Yahoo! thing not an NBA designation.

2. Players listed as N/A in Yahoo! -- These are generally players out of the NBA (i.e. not on a NBA roster) either permanently or temporarily. Delonte West is a recent example as were the players who went to China during the NBA lockout (Kirilenko, Kenyon Martin, JR Smith, etc.).

3. Overseas players NOT in the Yahoo System: The most recent examples have been Rubio (for 1-2 years between when he was drafted by MIN and he came over), Mirotic and Nogueria. This is covered by the constituion:

Quote
18. Any team that wants to retain the rights to a player playing overseas must continuously keep open a roster spot for that player (except during the period discussed in #16 above). Filling that empty roster slot with a free agent or via trade releases any claim on the overseas player, who becomes a free agent available for pickup by another team once that player is added to the Yahoo! list of players.


The proposed amendment would affect players in groups #2 and #3 --- not injured players in #1.
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2014, 09:14:00 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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These amendments have been proposed, discussed and seconded and will therefore be voted on during the week of Sep. 15 on the Yahoo! league site.

additions in bold italic red
deletions are bold and struckthrough



Constitutional Amendment #1 (new article)
-------------------------------
Article 19. Each team may have a maximum of 2 players listed as N/A in the Y! system and/or overseas players as described in #18 above.

Proposed by Gainesville Celtic, seconded by THE Walker Wiggle



Before I  third this....are guys injured for the year considered N/A? They're not right? Like Joel Embiid wouldn't count in this scenario, but....um...Dario Saric would. Right?

I think we need to set dates for when this is in effect - probably just during the fantasy season (or from cut day til the end of the NBA season). 

The reason why is that guys who are technically unsigned like Kent Bazemore and Evan Turner are N/A right now in the system even though they have handshake agreements (Bazemore actually signed Thursday but is still N/A right now).  A team with a lot of late-signing free agents could get screwed under the rule as written. 

Good point --- I think start to finish of NBA season should be the window, since a player could stay N/A until opening night theorhetically in the Yahoo! system.

There are other oddities -- i.e. Saric is listed in the system now but there is no chance he comes over this year.... so he'd qualify IMO as an overseas player...


Also, what are the penalties if the rule is broken?  Just forced to drop a guy and add someone eligible?

Yes. This is largely gonna be self-policing but i would direct them to get down to 2 N/A + intl players --- if they did not I would drop one for them.

There was a team last year that carried 4 N/A guys for a bulk of the season. There was no mechanism to stop that -- it was within the rules -- and this is to correct that.
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2014, 09:15:10 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Second I would propose that in the future we have these conventions 3 weeks after the trade deadline or 3 weeks before the playoffs. Just when we have everyone's attention instead of the offseason/summer when people aren't participating as much.

Then we can address things when our memories are fresher.


Totally agree -- i had my hands full as incoming commish at the end of last season or we would have done it then.

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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2014, 09:17:20 PM »

Offline Eja117

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These amendments have been proposed, discussed and seconded and will therefore be voted on during the week of Sep. 15 on the Yahoo! league site.

additions in bold italic red
deletions are bold and struckthrough



Constitutional Amendment #1 (new article)
-------------------------------
Article 19. Each team may have a maximum of 2 players listed as N/A in the Y! system and/or overseas players as described in #18 above.

Proposed by Gainesville Celtic, seconded by THE Walker Wiggle



Before I  third this....are guys injured for the year considered N/A? They're not right? Like Joel Embiid wouldn't count in this scenario, but....um...Dario Saric would. Right?

I think we need to set dates for when this is in effect - probably just during the fantasy season (or from cut day til the end of the NBA season). 

The reason why is that guys who are technically unsigned like Kent Bazemore and Evan Turner are N/A right now in the system even though they have handshake agreements (Bazemore actually signed Thursday but is still N/A right now).  A team with a lot of late-signing free agents could get screwed under the rule as written. 

Good point --- I think start to finish of NBA season should be the window, since a player could stay N/A until opening night theorhetically in the Yahoo! system.

There are other oddities -- i.e. Saric is listed in the system now but there is no chance he comes over this year.... so he'd qualify IMO as an overseas player...


Also, what are the penalties if the rule is broken?  Just forced to drop a guy and add someone eligible?

Yes. This is largely gonna be self-policing but i would direct them to get down to 2 N/A + intl players --- if they did not I would drop one for them.

There was a team last year that carried 4 N/A guys for a bulk of the season. There was no mechanism to stop that -- it was within the rules -- and this is to correct that.
I'm trying to think of any unusual circumstance and it's hard to think of one. I'd say maybe the only thing I could see would be if a team cut a guy and he was highly expected to resign like the Celts did with Gary Payton. So maybe if it's in season a guy has to be N/A for 3 weeks or something before you have to address it. Trying to imagine what would have happened to Latrell Spreewell back in the day. Just stuff like that.

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2014, 09:17:56 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Two observations here.

One is that I would be open minded to waivers sorta being a lottery. Again it would help new guys put their stamp on a team more so than now, but not penalize anyone. Nothing to tank for.


Not sure what you're saying here Eja (though i think you're just speaking aloud, not proposing)... are you saying instead of ordering start-of-season waiver priority being based on last year's finish it be randomized some how (i.e. through a lottery?)

New teams come in anywhere from #1 to 20 -- so not sure how it'd affect new teams.
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2014, 09:22:04 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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These amendments have been proposed, discussed and seconded and will therefore be voted on during the week of Sep. 15 on the Yahoo! league site.

additions in bold italic red
deletions are bold and struckthrough



Constitutional Amendment #1 (new article)
-------------------------------
Article 19. Each team may have a maximum of 2 players listed as N/A in the Y! system and/or overseas players as described in #18 above.

Proposed by Gainesville Celtic, seconded by THE Walker Wiggle



Before I  third this....are guys injured for the year considered N/A? They're not right? Like Joel Embiid wouldn't count in this scenario, but....um...Dario Saric would. Right?

I think we need to set dates for when this is in effect - probably just during the fantasy season (or from cut day til the end of the NBA season). 

The reason why is that guys who are technically unsigned like Kent Bazemore and Evan Turner are N/A right now in the system even though they have handshake agreements (Bazemore actually signed Thursday but is still N/A right now).  A team with a lot of late-signing free agents could get screwed under the rule as written. 

Good point --- I think start to finish of NBA season should be the window, since a player could stay N/A until opening night theorhetically in the Yahoo! system.

There are other oddities -- i.e. Saric is listed in the system now but there is no chance he comes over this year.... so he'd qualify IMO as an overseas player...


Also, what are the penalties if the rule is broken?  Just forced to drop a guy and add someone eligible?

Yes. This is largely gonna be self-policing but i would direct them to get down to 2 N/A + intl players --- if they did not I would drop one for them.

There was a team last year that carried 4 N/A guys for a bulk of the season. There was no mechanism to stop that -- it was within the rules -- and this is to correct that.
I'm trying to think of any unusual circumstance and it's hard to think of one. I'd say maybe the only thing I could see would be if a team cut a guy and he was highly expected to resign like the Celts did with Gary Payton. So maybe if it's in season a guy has to be N/A for 3 weeks or something before you have to address it. Trying to imagine what would have happened to Latrell Spreewell back in the day. Just stuff like that.

i thank folks for trying to think through unusual circumstances -- since I don't always think of them.

Keep in mind in the case of Celtics/Payton -- one of our teams that had Payton would have to already have 2 *other* N/A or International players to be affected.

If they did (say Rubio and and N/A guy) it might make for a tough decision, but that's what happens. If we don't have a rule then a team could theorethcially carry 16 N/A guys and be almost guaranteed a top draft slot.
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2014, 09:30:49 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Two observations here.

One is that I would be open minded to waivers sorta being a lottery. Again it would help new guys put their stamp on a team more so than now, but not penalize anyone. Nothing to tank for.


Not sure what you're saying here Eja (though i think you're just speaking aloud, not proposing)... are you saying instead of ordering start-of-season waiver priority being based on last year's finish it be randomized some how (i.e. through a lottery?)

New teams come in anywhere from #1 to 20 -- so not sure how it'd affect new teams.
Yes that's what I'm saying. I find generally (it was certainly my experience in both leagues) that new teams that come in have teams in pretty tough situations. I think it's pretty tough for a team in that bottom spot to find out he's last in waiver wire. So I figured a lottery to determine waiver priority would help the lower teams by taking away an advantage from the top teams. I think Lucky once explained it in terms of a reward for teams that played hard and was an anti tanking incentive in that sense. I just think it can be a huge advantage for the top teams so I was proposing leveling the playing field a bit. I also think it's fair that seeing as how the top of the draft is a lottery, the waivers being a lottery is also sorta a fair idea.  Not sure how much support this would have.

One thing I think we both think is that teams that don't do great tend to be the ones abandoned so I just feel this would be a parity helper.  Or at least could be.

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2014, 09:31:21 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I'm trying to think of any unusual circumstance and it's hard to think of one. I'd say maybe the only thing I could see would be if a team cut a guy and he was highly expected to resign like the Celts did with Gary Payton. So maybe if it's in season a guy has to be N/A for 3 weeks or something before you have to address it. Trying to imagine what would have happened to Latrell Spreewell back in the day. Just stuff like that.

I think in that case you'd just have to decide which 2 guys to keep.  Won't come up much unless there's a labor stoppage, in which case it'd come up a LOT.  But we could just vote to suspend the rule that year.

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2014, 09:32:59 PM »

Offline Eja117

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These amendments have been proposed, discussed and seconded and will therefore be voted on during the week of Sep. 15 on the Yahoo! league site.

additions in bold italic red
deletions are bold and struckthrough



Constitutional Amendment #1 (new article)
-------------------------------
Article 19. Each team may have a maximum of 2 players listed as N/A in the Y! system and/or overseas players as described in #18 above.

Proposed by Gainesville Celtic, seconded by THE Walker Wiggle



Before I  third this....are guys injured for the year considered N/A? They're not right? Like Joel Embiid wouldn't count in this scenario, but....um...Dario Saric would. Right?

I think we need to set dates for when this is in effect - probably just during the fantasy season (or from cut day til the end of the NBA season). 

The reason why is that guys who are technically unsigned like Kent Bazemore and Evan Turner are N/A right now in the system even though they have handshake agreements (Bazemore actually signed Thursday but is still N/A right now).  A team with a lot of late-signing free agents could get screwed under the rule as written. 

Good point --- I think start to finish of NBA season should be the window, since a player could stay N/A until opening night theorhetically in the Yahoo! system.

There are other oddities -- i.e. Saric is listed in the system now but there is no chance he comes over this year.... so he'd qualify IMO as an overseas player...


Also, what are the penalties if the rule is broken?  Just forced to drop a guy and add someone eligible?

Yes. This is largely gonna be self-policing but i would direct them to get down to 2 N/A + intl players --- if they did not I would drop one for them.

There was a team last year that carried 4 N/A guys for a bulk of the season. There was no mechanism to stop that -- it was within the rules -- and this is to correct that.
I'm trying to think of any unusual circumstance and it's hard to think of one. I'd say maybe the only thing I could see would be if a team cut a guy and he was highly expected to resign like the Celts did with Gary Payton. So maybe if it's in season a guy has to be N/A for 3 weeks or something before you have to address it. Trying to imagine what would have happened to Latrell Spreewell back in the day. Just stuff like that.

i thank folks for trying to think through unusual circumstances -- since I don't always think of them.

Keep in mind in the case of Celtics/Payton -- one of our teams that had Payton would have to already have 2 *other* N/A or International players to be affected.

If they did (say Rubio and and N/A guy) it might make for a tough decision, but that's what happens. If we don't have a rule then a team could theorethcially carry 16 N/A guys and be almost guaranteed a top draft slot.
Well I definitely don't think it should be indefinite and I definitely think we can't/shouldn't try to insulate teams from horrid things that happen. 

I guess we don't have a games played minimum, do we? That's the other league because it's different, right? Hence this is more important here. Makes sense.

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2014, 10:58:37 AM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Last call for suggested amendments...

We'll be voting on 6 amendments later this week and i'll be compiling all of them in the 2nd post of this thread later today.
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2014, 04:51:38 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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21. In-season trades shall have a 1 day approval period, to allow league GMs to review and exercise veto, if necessary. One-third of league GMs exercising veto power (e.g., at least 7) are required to overturn any trade. (Validated by league vote, summer 2012.)

Proposed Amendment #3

Extended the trade review period to 2 days to allow for some debate and wider participation?


For the sake of process and goodwill i'll 2nd this.
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2014, 11:41:33 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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21. In-season trades shall have a 1 day approval period, to allow league GMs to review and exercise veto, if necessary. One-third of league GMs exercising veto power (e.g., at least 7) are required to overturn any trade. (Validated by league vote, summer 2012.)

Proposed Amendment #3

Extended the trade review period to 2 days to allow for some debate and wider participation?


For the sake of process and goodwill i'll 2nd this.

I'm not sure there's the support. But I appreciate the nod regardless. You're good people.

I would like to clear up the loophole that, IIRC, was used by our a since-departed-letter-of-the-law GM to stop a last-day-before-cutdown trade from happening b/c it couldn't be processed before the cutdown.

Just need to figure out the wording.

Thanks for remembering. That wasn't fun. Although maybe it does make for a fun footnote that the Walker Wiggle once quit the league over Tyrus Thomas.

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #72 on: September 16, 2014, 11:52:58 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Thanks for remembering. That wasn't fun. Although maybe it does make for a fun footnote that the Walker Wiggle once quit the league over Tyrus Thomas.

This is why you're a better GM than me: the Gainesville Celtics had Mr. Thomas on our roster for our first couple of years... I never thought of simply quitting to get him off our team.

Live n' learn.... 8)
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2014, 11:56:01 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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I never commented on the expansion draft proposal, but I could get behind it. At this point a dozen (or nearly?) of our current managers had no involvement in the draft that begin this madness seven years ago. That's amusing.

Hat tip to the true faithful while I'm at it: MK, Hate, Champ, Birdman, Blake, LB17, and JGod. I'm impressed, gentlemen. Did I miss anybody?

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2014, 11:57:55 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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Thanks for remembering. That wasn't fun. Although maybe it does make for a fun footnote that the Walker Wiggle once quit the league over Tyrus Thomas.

This is why you're a better GM than me: the Gainesville Celtics had Mr. Thomas on our roster for our first couple of years... I never thought of simply quitting to get him off our team.

Live n' learn.... 8)

Oh I wish, but history won't judge me so kindly. I was trading *FOR* TT. And not to be refused, I then threw my #1 waiver priority at him. He started maybe three weeks before losing interest and pulling up lame.

Still it was the principal of the matter, GC.