A Realistic Marcus Smart Comparison

[crimson_stallion]

tyreke evans/tony allen/ lance stephenson mix

Dear god I hope not lol

don't like elite defense ?

Maybe it's crazy athleticism

It's got nothing to do with either of those attributes.  I just prefer players that can actually dribble, shoot, pass, and, on a completely random note, talk with more than one side of their mouth lol.  I'll never understand how TA can do that.  I also hated how Tony would always make the dumbest plays at the least opportune time, and I don't miss him at all.  Put Wesley Matthews (Danny!!!  Ugh.) on that 09-10 team and we might have won it all, because he can actually SHOOT lol.

Yeah, I have to agree.  I think people are very generous in the way they remember Tony Allen on the Celtics.

The way I see it he was never anything more than a pure defence / energy guy.  He was rarely ever a factor on offense, was pretty turnover prone, had low IQ, couldn't shoot, and I think his passing and ball handling skills were both below that of Avery Bradley (on par at best).

I still liked him because those two things he was good at (defence an energy) he was really, really good at.    I just don't think that his skill set was far too narrow for him to every be a really big factor.

I thought Mickael Pietrus in his time with the Celtics was basically a rich man's Tony Allen because he brought the same things (Defense and energy) but with the added bonus of a three point shot and much superior offensive game.

When you're a poor man's version of a role player, that's doesn't say much.

IMHO our very own Avery Bradley is a far, far superior version of Tony Allen.   While Allen might be a better defensive player, Bradley is absolutely superior in every other aspect of the game.

[Beat LA]

Firstly, I believe Marcus will be point guard of the Boston Celtics, sooner than later. So my comparison is going to be as a pg. IMO Marcus Smart is a hybrid of players and skill sets AND physical attributes; that no one player at his position has..IMO

best case scenario...he is the Lebron of point guards, but with a better shot and more steals.

  Is that the way KO's best case scenario is a better version of Dirk?

HAHA ya I phrased that wrong. I guess what I was trying to say is that physically Smart could hopefully outmatch/overpower point guards and defenses the way Lebron does.

I think KO's best case scenario would be a Luis Scola with 3pt range.

Tim, when I analyze Smarts measurements, athleticism results, stats, interviews, game footage, life and basketball adversity, body composition , inspiring leadership, elite defense, and the fact that he legitimately loves basketball and wants to get better; it gives me hope that he can improve.

  Hopefully you're right about Smart. That's a decent comparison for KO.

Agreed, although KO is a much better passer than Scola.

[Beat LA]

I like the Kyle Lowry comparison I heard from our own member Kane.

Tp.

I think a little bit better version of Lowry is realistic and probably where he ends up. I saw tyreke as a floor. I'm optimistic for a more dedicated and maybe less flashy version of baron Davis.

Like baron he is coming into the league with lots of criticism about his shot. However also like baron he's a flat out bullie. He physically overpowers players at his position and he can get to the basket  consistently without being overly explosive.

Scouting report of b diddy from 1999 before the draft. Honestly it's identical to smart.

Baron Davis - UCLA. 6'2" 190. Baron has the strongest will that I've seen recently in college basketball. He is very emotional, which can go either way. Sometimes he'll carry a team on his back, simply refusing to lose, - and sometimes he'll get carried away and lose his cool (Alonzo style). That having been said, he is still a rare find because he is a point guard that can handle and push the tempo like Jason Kidd. Baron also moves well without the ball. His jumper is suspect. He is a 60% free throw shooter that shot 34% from beyond the college arc. I question his ability to hit the NBA three. Had ACL surgery in March `98. It is worth repeating that Baron has a super-super strong will. I wouldn't rule out anything with Davis, either good or bad because he's so stubborn.

http://www.basslinespin.com/nbadraftreport.htm

Cool link on the 1999 draft. (Steve Francis, Lamar odom, Elton brand, Shawn Marion, artest, jet, rip etc.)

I don't think the Baron Davis comparison works for a few reasons.

Firstly Smart hasn't been a great outside shooter, but he's been a very solid free throw shooter.  That usually suggests decent form and the potential to be a good (or at least decent) shooter.  Baron Davis was a pretty shocking free throw shooter most of his career.

Secondly I think Smart is more mentally focussed then Davis ever was.  People read too much into the one single incident where Smart lost his cool in College.  Overall everything that I've seen indicates that he is a very modest guy with an incredible work ethic who always puts the team first, and that he demonstrates great maturity and self control.  I don't think Baron Davis was ever that level headed.

Thirdly Davis was a decent defender, but I don't think he was ever as dominant defensively as Smart has shown he can be.

I also think that Davis was more athletic - he was a hell of a leaper and I think he was quicker and more explosive than Smart.

Also Baron Davis was a borderline-elite passer and playmaker.  From memory he averaged 8+ assists a few seasons during his prime.  I don't see Smart becoming that calibre of playmaker.  Davis was generally more of a pure PG, while Smart is a combo guard who leans more towards the PG spot. 

I do think Tyreke Evans (as others have suggested) is a pretty good comparison in terms of pure skill set and physical attributes.  Similar size, strength, both are very good (but not elite) rebounders and passers, both are very good at attacking the basket, scoring at the rim and getting to the line.  Both are unspectacular shooters.  The key difference I see here is personality - Tyreke has been criticised quite a bit for his attitude, while for Smart I think his personality (attitude, motor and work ethic) are among his greatest assets. Tyreke's attitude issues (and lack of development) also wouldn't have been helped by the fact that he played for the Kings, who (up until the last season or so) have been famous for their inability to develop talented players.  Tyreke has averaged around 18/5/5 for pretty much his entire career and I have little doubt that he would have developed in to a sure-fire all star if he was drafted by somebody like the Celtics, Spurs, Heat or Lakers rather than the Kings.  The other big thing that Smart has over Tyreke is defence.  I feel Tyreke has always been a decent defender and I think he has had the tools to be a great one, but he's just never realised that potential.  I think Smart is already an excellent defender at the NBA level, and will develop in to an elite one.

I can see Marcus Smart developing in to a guy averaging absolute worst-case of 15/4/4 and with a ceiling of maybe 20/5/7, while also making All-Defensive teams on a consistent basis.

The other guy I can see Smart comparing nicely to is Dwyane Wade.  Smart is practically a clone of Wade physically (both around 6'4" and 225lbs with a long wingspan).  Offensively Smart has a very similar game to Wade - inconsistent jump shot and weak three point shot (but can still hit them if left open), very good at scoring around the basket, very good at drawing contact and getting to the line, solid three point shooter.  Almost an identical profile as far as scoring goes.

Wade's offensive dominance (plus his good size) saw him at the SG spot most of his career, but he was always a solid passer and playmaker. He played PG quite a bit early in his career and was pretty good at it, averaging around 7 APG for a few seasons there.  I think that again, the same can be said for Smart.  I think he'll be seen more as a PG early in his career because of his leadership, passing and court vision, but he's not the type of elite passer (Nash, Rondo, Paul, Deron) that will give you 8-10 assists per game.  I think has his scoring game develops you'll find his scoring contributes more than his passing, and I think he'll end up spending a lot of time at the SG spot. As far as playmaking goes though, I think he's right about on par with a rookie Wade.

Same with ball handling.  Wade was never an elite ball handler, but he was a decent enough ball handler that he could man the PG spot without much trouble.  I think the same is true for Smart - he's not going to break many ankles, but he won't bounce many off his foot either.

Both guys are very good rebounders for their size / position.  Wade was up around 5 rebounds a game as a rookie and I think Smart will be up around there too.

Defensively, Wade was an absolute beast early in his career, just as Smart is now.  Injuries had seen Wade age sooner than he should have and he's nowhere near the defender now that he once was, but that's another area where the comparison works. 

Finally, mentality.  Wade and Smart have almost identical personalities.  Wade was always a natural born leader, a warrior, and tough as nails.  He used his size and strength to dominate smaller guys, he was a killer in the clutch, and he always had that 'killer instinct'. I think Smart has all of that. 

Where the two guys may vary some is that I do think Wade was more explosive when he came in to the league than Smart is, but aside from that I think Smart is about as much of a Dwyane Wade clone as you'll find.
 
Wade's stats in his final college season:

21.5 PTS
6.3 REB
4.4 AST
2.2 STL
1.3 BLK
3.2 TO
50% FG
32% 3PT
78% FT

Smart's stats in his final college season:

18 PTS
5.9 REB
4.8 AST
2.9 STL
0.6 BLK
2.6 TO
42% FG
30% 3PT
73% FT

Obviously the big numbers that stand out as different are Wade's scoring (+ 3.5 PPG) and FG% (+ 0.80) which is why I don't expect Smart to become the same dominant 25 PPG scorer that Wade has been...but aside from that there stats are pretty similar. 

For Smart to evolve in to a poor-man's Wade (basically the same player but topping out at 21 PPG and with less efficient scoring) is I think very realistically possible.

First of all, TP for the excellent analysis.  I know that a few people have mentioned Tyreke Evans, and although I tend to agree with such a comparison, allow me to go one step further, even if it might not be the most realistic of comparisons.  Actually, no, I think there's some merit to my comparison, but anyway, I remember watching a game the Celtics played in Sacremento during Tyreke's rookie year, and Mike asked Tommy who Evans reminded him of, and Tommy said Michael Ray Richardson.  I honestly think that Smart could be like Sugar, because even though he's an inch shorter, both players are big guards who are defensive aces with pretty good to excellent (in the case of Richardson) playmaking skills.  The comparison is especially realistic in terms of steals.  We all know how Smart gets a ton of deflections and steals because of how he plays the passing lanes, and Michael Ray averaged 2.6 spg  for his drug-shortened career, and that's outstanding.  Richardson was the better shooter, though, right?  Am I completely nuts lol?

[Mazingerz]

Smart could hopefully pan out as the following:

1. Dwade (with a much classier attitude);
2. Joe Dumars (? shooting leaves much to be desired as of the moment);
3. Vinnie Johnson (see item 2);
4. Baron Davis (although Davis was a pure PG);
5. Westbrook (for the tenacity);
6. Tony Allen (defensive prowess);
7. Avery Bradley (comparable defense, although Smart edges Bradley out with superior ball-handling skills);


If Smart turns into an amalgam of the players above (their better qualities) then he can be one of the GOATs of the NBA in the near future;

[Beat LA]

tyreke evans/tony allen/ lance stephenson mix

Dear god I hope not lol

don't like elite defense ?

Maybe it's crazy athleticism

It's got nothing to do with either of those attributes.  I just prefer players that can actually dribble, shoot, pass, and, on a completely random note, talk with more than one side of their mouth lol.  I'll never understand how TA can do that.  I also hated how Tony would always make the dumbest plays at the least opportune time, and I don't miss him at all.  Put Wesley Matthews (Danny!!!  Ugh.) on that 09-10 team and we might have won it all, because he can actually SHOOT lol.

Yeah, I have to agree.  I think people are very generous in the way they remember Tony Allen on the Celtics.

The way I see it he was never anything more than a pure defence / energy guy.  He was rarely ever a factor on offense, was pretty turnover prone, had low IQ, couldn't shoot, and I think his passing and ball handling skills were both below that of Avery Bradley (on par at best).

I still liked him because those two things he was good at (defence an energy) he was really, really good at.    I just don't think that his skill set was far too narrow for him to every be a really big factor.

I thought Mickael Pietrus in his time with the Celtics was basically a rich man's Tony Allen because he brought the same things (Defense and energy) but with the added bonus of a three point shot and much superior offensive game.

When you're a poor man's version of a role player, that's doesn't say much.

IMHO our very own Avery Bradley is a far, far superior version of Tony Allen.   While Allen might be a better defensive player, Bradley is absolutely superior in every other aspect of the game.

Finally, someone who doesn't worship Tony Allen on here lol!  I disagree with your Pietrus comparison, though, because he was the closest thing to James Posey we ever had.  He could play multiple positions, defend them, shoot, and perhaps the biggest trait that made him like Posey in my eyes - he was a big game, big shot player.  He was huge in game 5 against the Heat with his clutch 3s.  If he hadn't gotten that concussion he would have played a lot better, more consistently.  He was great in the locker room too.  Personally, I loved the guy.  He would sometimes take too many 3s, but he also wasn't afraid of the moment, and those guys, particularly, "role players," are especially difficult to find.  Just ask Danny.  Ugh.

Also, while Bradley is much better than TA at dribbling and passing, I think it's important to point out that that bar isn't exactly set very high lol, if at all, because AB is atrocious at playmaking and his handle needs a lot of work, imo.  Still, at least he doesn't constantly palm the ball and dribble with his head down like Allen did.  The only thing Tony did that I actually liked was his crossover, provided that he remained under control after making the move haha, because all-too-often he simply was out of control.  I'll say this for Tony, though, he was looking really promising until he dunked after the whistle.  He never got to the line like that again, and yet, he also failed to get smarter as a player.  I was ecstatic when he signed with the Grizzlies

[fitzhickey]

Didn't Michael Ray average over 10 assists one year?

[Beat LA]

Didn't Michael Ray average over 10 assists one year?

Yeah, in 79-80.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richami01.html

[fitzhickey]

Didn't Michael Ray average over 10 assists one year?

Yeah, in 79-80.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richami01.html

Let's hope Smart can do what Richardson did in 84-85 every season 

[Future Celtics Owner]

Firstly, I believe Marcus will be point guard of the Boston Celtics, sooner than later. So my comparison is going to be as a pg. IMO Marcus Smart is a hybrid of players and skill sets AND physical attributes; that no one player at his position has..IMO

best case scenario...he is the Lebron of point guards, but with a better shot and more steals.

  Is that the way KO's best case scenario is a better version of Dirk?

HAHA ya I phrased that wrong. I guess what I was trying to say is that physically Smart could hopefully outmatch/overpower point guards and defenses the way Lebron does.

I think KO's best case scenario would be a Luis Scola with 3pt range.

Tim, when I analyze Smarts measurements, athleticism results, stats, interviews, game footage, life and basketball adversity, body composition , inspiring leadership, elite defense, and the fact that he legitimately loves basketball and wants to get better; it gives me hope that he can improve.

  Hopefully you're right about Smart. That's a decent comparison for KO.

Agreed, although KO is a much better passer than Scola.

Agreed, KO is a better passer, and has better range.

[2short]

[/quote]

First of all, TP for the excellent analysis.  I know that a few people have mentioned Tyreke Evans, and although I tend to agree with such a comparison, allow me to go one step further, even if it might not be the most realistic of comparisons.  Actually, no, I think there's some merit to my comparison, but anyway, I remember watching a game the Celtics played in Sacremento during Tyreke's rookie year, and Mike asked Tommy who Evans reminded him of, and Tommy said Michael Ray Richardson.  I honestly think that Smart could be like Sugar, because even though he's an inch shorter, both players are big guards who are defensive aces with pretty good to excellent (in the case of Richardson) playmaking skills.  The comparison is especially realistic in terms of steals.  We all know how Smart gets a ton of deflections and steals because of how he plays the passing lanes, and Michael Ray averaged 2.6 spg  for his drug-shortened career, and that's outstanding.  Richardson was the better shooter, though, right?  Am I completely nuts lol?
[/quote]
Michael Ray Richardson is a pretty lofty expectation imo.  Guy was in magics caliber prior to drugs

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

He could be part of a 2 point guard rotation with Rondo no? I mean if you got Green, Olynyk and Zeller  stretching the floor as forwards, couldn't Smart and Rondo work?

[2short]

He could be part of a 2 point guard rotation with Rondo no? I mean if you got Green, Olynyk and Zeller  stretching the floor as forwards, couldn't Smart and Rondo work?

I agree, lots of lanes for driving ball handling guards to go to hoop or drive and dish.
Maybe its just me but my thought is:
our best player is rondo, by far so unless we are going to get some serious value back in trade we sign him
bradley is a very good defender who has good outside shot, smallish for sg, bad ball handling and has injury history
if smart is as good a defender then it should be bradley being shopped, smart has better ball handling skills and can give you minutes at either guard position, I wouldn't mind thorton, turner, green and young as backup sg
so bradley, bass and pick nets us what in a trade ? 

[Celtics4ever]

So play Bradley at the point on D and SG on offense with Marcus and vice versa with Rondo.  This way Marcus guards SG with AB and plays point with him.   With Rondo, AB is your SG.

[D.o.s.]

First of all, TP for the excellent analysis.  I know that a few people have mentioned Tyreke Evans, and although I tend to agree with such a comparison, allow me to go one step further, even if it might not be the most realistic of comparisons.  Actually, no, I think there's some merit to my comparison, but anyway, I remember watching a game the Celtics played in Sacremento during Tyreke's rookie year, and Mike asked Tommy who Evans reminded him of, and Tommy said Michael Ray Richardson.  I honestly think that Smart could be like Sugar, because even though he's an inch shorter, both players are big guards who are defensive aces with pretty good to excellent (in the case of Richardson) playmaking skills.  The comparison is especially realistic in terms of steals.  We all know how Smart gets a ton of deflections and steals because of how he plays the passing lanes, and Michael Ray averaged 2.6 spg  for his drug-shortened career, and that's outstanding.  Richardson was the better shooter, though, right?  Am I completely nuts lol?

Michael Ray Richardson is a pretty lofty expectation imo.  Guy was in magics caliber prior to drugs

Agreed, insofar as this is probably the most unlikely comparison that's been made so far.

Remember when Tommy said Steimsma reminded him of Bill Russell? Smart is likely to be to Richardson what Steamer was to Russ, although, as always, I'll be quite happy to be proven wrong.

[fairweatherfan]

First of all, TP for the excellent analysis.  I know that a few people have mentioned Tyreke Evans, and although I tend to agree with such a comparison, allow me to go one step further, even if it might not be the most realistic of comparisons.  Actually, no, I think there's some merit to my comparison, but anyway, I remember watching a game the Celtics played in Sacremento during Tyreke's rookie year, and Mike asked Tommy who Evans reminded him of, and Tommy said Michael Ray Richardson.  I honestly think that Smart could be like Sugar, because even though he's an inch shorter, both players are big guards who are defensive aces with pretty good to excellent (in the case of Richardson) playmaking skills.  The comparison is especially realistic in terms of steals.  We all know how Smart gets a ton of deflections and steals because of how he plays the passing lanes, and Michael Ray averaged 2.6 spg  for his drug-shortened career, and that's outstanding.  Richardson was the better shooter, though, right?  Am I completely nuts lol?

Michael Ray Richardson is a pretty lofty expectation imo.  Guy was in magics caliber prior to drugs

Agreed, insofar as this is probably the most unlikely comparison that's been made so far.

Remember when Tommy said Steimsma reminded him of Bill Russell? Smart is likely to be to Richardson what Steamer was to Russ, although, as always, I'll be quite happy to be proven wrong.

To be fair, Tommy said one specific aspect of Stiemsma's game (good timing on shotblocking) reminded him of one specific aspect of Russell's game.  It was a very narrow comparison that got blown out of proportion.

I think a poor man's Michael Ray Richardson isn't bad as a plausible ceiling for Smart.  Didn't see much of Richardson but they seem to have similar skillsets, though Smart isn't as good in any area except strength and the standard generational differences in 3-point shooting.