Author Topic: Sports Illustrated rank Celtics 3rd worst team in East. Nets won't make playoffs  (Read 18411 times)

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Offline Chris22

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I may be wrong, we have the clippers pick this year and the next Brooklyn pick is next year.

2015 - three first round picks, ours and the Clippers and maybe the 76ers
2016 - three first round picks, ours and the Nets and the Cavs
2017 - one first round pick, the better of ours or the Nets
2018 - two first round picks, ours and the Nets

Offline kraidstar

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I think the rope for Brad, Danny AND Wyc (at least in my eyes) will extend through this upcoming season and THAT'S IT.

If this time next year, we are still talking about rebuilding and not talking about a competitive basketball team, then I think there's going to be some people on the hot seat over at Causeway Street and I can promise I will not wait around yet another year.

The rebuild stuff might be fun for some people, but in this city, taking a 5-10 year rebuild approach just isn't going to fly.

Oh, Puh-lease.  I don't know if you followed pro sports in the 20th century, but if you did, you should know that besides the Celtics, Boston teams were pretty much a pile of hot garbage.  And even then, fans still turned out.  And the Celtics have won one champhionship since Ronald Reagan was president.  And yet, somehow, the fans show up.  At least not all of them are inpatient, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately? types.

If Celtics fans want to cut bait on Danny, Wyc, and Co after two losing seasons, then they don't deserve a GM and owner as awesome as those two.  Danny inherited a pupu platter of a roster and within 5 years had built a champion, all without getting lucky in the draft or without luring a big time free agent.  Do you know how rare that is?  Do people not remember what it was like when this franchise was owned by Gaston Jr and ran by Chris Wallace?

I don't know if it is a sign of today's society or what, but the demand for instant gratification today just baffles me.

+1, TP, for you
hopefully wyc and co won't allow themselves to be pressured into making bad long-term decisions for mediocre short-term gains. that's the sort of short-sighted thinking that causes so many teams to be perennially mediocre (ie, giving above-average players like parsons and hayward huge contracts, and then, years later, the same fans crucify the front office for same said overpaid players). those teams, in the long run, have poor fanbases, because they know team management is incompetent.
so far wyc and danny have done a great job, and they understand that the celtics are all about winning championships. if that displeases certain fans, there are lots or rudderless, non-contending but "competing" teams you can root for instead.

Offline gpap

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I think the rope for Brad, Danny AND Wyc (at least in my eyes) will extend through this upcoming season and THAT'S IT.

If this time next year, we are still talking about rebuilding and not talking about a competitive basketball team, then I think there's going to be some people on the hot seat over at Causeway Street and I can promise I will not wait around yet another year.

The rebuild stuff might be fun for some people, but in this city, taking a 5-10 year rebuild approach just isn't going to fly.

Oh, Puh-lease.  I don't know if you followed pro sports in the 20th century, but if you did, you should know that besides the Celtics, Boston teams were pretty much a pile of hot garbage.  And even then, fans still turned out.  And the Celtics have won one champhionship since Ronald Reagan was president.  And yet, somehow, the fans show up.  At least not all of them are inpatient, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately? types.

If Celtics fans want to cut bait on Danny, Wyc, and Co after two losing seasons, then they don't deserve a GM and owner as awesome as those two.  Danny inherited a pupu platter of a roster and within 5 years had built a champion, all without getting lucky in the draft or without luring a big time free agent.  Do you know how rare that is?  Do people not remember what it was like when this franchise was owned by Gaston Jr and ran by Chris Wallace?

I don't know if it is a sign of today's society or what, but the demand for instant gratification today just baffles me.


Okay, and the acceptance of mediocrity that some people have just baffles me, so I guess we are even.

Offline mmmmm

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Our top 5-man units last year were seriously awful by comparison.   Seriously, here are the two 5-man units that we played the MOST last year:

Bradley-Crawford-Green-Bass-Sullinger (372.5 minutes)
Rondo-Bayless-Green-Bass-Humphries (124.2 minutes)


just curious, but do we know which of these two teams produced more wins last year after evening out the playing time?

I'm leary of answering that because simplistic types will almost certainly do the knee-jerk thing and assert that the differences are solely because of Rondo ...

Still, in the interest of sharing information:

On a per-possession basis, both of those lineups were nearly identically (in) efficient on offense, managing just 0.97 and 0.96 points per possession.

On defense, the first lineup was on the bad side of mediocre, giving up 1.03 points per possession.  The second lineup, though, was definitely bad, giving up 1.13 points per possession.

If you look at more of the various 5-man combinations, Bayless sticks out like a sore thumb on many of the really bad defensive units.   He was just too undersized to be playing SG and unlike Bradley, nowhere near quick enough or savvy enough to make up for the lack of size with defensive skill.

It drove me nuts that for much of the Spring we had him in the starting unit such that he literally got more time next to Rondo than Bradley did.  Of course, Bradley's injuries didn't help.

Our better units tended to have Rondo at PG & Bradley at SG, but we just didn't see that combination on the floor all that much.

Just as bad as those backcourt issues though, is the simple fact of how chronically undersized we played up front.  Bass, Sullinger & Humphries are all decent power forwards, to different extents.  Not one of them comes close to being tall enough to play center on a consistent basis.  And that killed us.

Because the vast majority of the time last year we had some combination of two of those three on the floor up front.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Online Alleyoopster

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I think near the end of last year the losing was getting to Brad Stevens. Another year like last year he may chose to go elsewhere....say something like UNC.

How can you say that?  He's spent much of his college career trying to make an underdog a winner.  There isn't a much better spot for him to be in. 

Offline Rondo9

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celtics will make SI eat it.

We will make the playoffs

Do we really want to? Sneak into the playoffs and get trounced by either Cleveland or Chicago and get a pick in the late teens or finish with a bottom 5 record and land a top 7 lottery pick, in this a draft with some very solid bigs. Give me the latter and let's build this thing right.

There's no "right" way to rebuild. You can be rooting for losses like the Sixer fans if you want, meanwhile I want the team to win as many games as they can.

Sure there is. You can trade away picks and try to win now. We have a young team that has 4 of it's better players (Rondo/Smart & Olynyk/Sullinger) best suited at PG and PF. It's going to take at least 1 more season for us to start competing for a late playoff spot. So I'd much rather get another Smart type prospect, than a Young type, and build this thing right.

Again there are multiple paths to a rebuild, bottoming out isn't necessary if you have plethora of picks and young players. I think the Celtics are good enough to sneak into the playoffs or they'll miss it by a few wins.

Again, what's the point? Would our team be better going forward with a top 5 pick or one in the low teens during next year's draft?

Sneaking into the playoffs or missing it by a few wins will mean the difference of quite a few draft spots. I would love to make the playoffs, but not at the expense of drafting out of the lottery and missing out on another potential franchise cornerstone. Patience is vital.

Who are they better than?

Cavs
Bulls
Wizards
Raptors
Hawks
Hornets
Heat
Knicks
Pistons
Pacers
Nets

The point is that it shows the team is making progress with the growth of the young players. It seems right now that the Celtics wants to win as many games as possible, but at the same time remaining flexible. I am being patient, I just see this as a fun way as opposed to the Sixer model.

Offline mgent

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I think the rope for Brad, Danny AND Wyc (at least in my eyes) will extend through this upcoming season and THAT'S IT.

If this time next year, we are still talking about rebuilding and not talking about a competitive basketball team, then I think there's going to be some people on the hot seat over at Causeway Street and I can promise I will not wait around yet another year.

The rebuild stuff might be fun for some people, but in this city, taking a 5-10 year rebuild approach just isn't going to fly.

Oh, Puh-lease.  I don't know if you followed pro sports in the 20th century, but if you did, you should know that besides the Celtics, Boston teams were pretty much a pile of hot garbage.  And even then, fans still turned out.  And the Celtics have won one champhionship since Ronald Reagan was president.  And yet, somehow, the fans show up.  At least not all of them are inpatient, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately? types.

If Celtics fans want to cut bait on Danny, Wyc, and Co after two losing seasons, then they don't deserve a GM and owner as awesome as those two.  Danny inherited a pupu platter of a roster and within 5 years had built a champion, all without getting lucky in the draft or without luring a big time free agent.  Do you know how rare that is?  Do people not remember what it was like when this franchise was owned by Gaston Jr and ran by Chris Wallace?

I don't know if it is a sign of today's society or what, but the demand for instant gratification today just baffles me.


Okay, and the acceptance of mediocrity that some people have just baffles me, so I guess we are even.
Huh, I had no clue that not demanding instant gratification made accepting mediocrity mandatory.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Offline gpap

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I think the rope for Brad, Danny AND Wyc (at least in my eyes) will extend through this upcoming season and THAT'S IT.

If this time next year, we are still talking about rebuilding and not talking about a competitive basketball team, then I think there's going to be some people on the hot seat over at Causeway Street and I can promise I will not wait around yet another year.

The rebuild stuff might be fun for some people, but in this city, taking a 5-10 year rebuild approach just isn't going to fly.

Oh, Puh-lease.  I don't know if you followed pro sports in the 20th century, but if you did, you should know that besides the Celtics, Boston teams were pretty much a pile of hot garbage.  And even then, fans still turned out.  And the Celtics have won one champhionship since Ronald Reagan was president.  And yet, somehow, the fans show up.  At least not all of them are inpatient, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately? types.

If Celtics fans want to cut bait on Danny, Wyc, and Co after two losing seasons, then they don't deserve a GM and owner as awesome as those two.  Danny inherited a pupu platter of a roster and within 5 years had built a champion, all without getting lucky in the draft or without luring a big time free agent.  Do you know how rare that is?  Do people not remember what it was like when this franchise was owned by Gaston Jr and ran by Chris Wallace?

I don't know if it is a sign of today's society or what, but the demand for instant gratification today just baffles me.


Okay, and the acceptance of mediocrity that some people have just baffles me, so I guess we are even.
Huh, I had no clue that not demanding instant gratification made accepting mediocrity mandatory.

And when did I say I wanted "instant gratification"?

If I want to see my team play well, why is that labeled as "instant gratification"?

I am really getting sick and tired of having 5th grade arguments with some people on this site, seriously!!

Offline bostonsportsforlife

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I think near the end of last year the losing was getting to Brad Stevens. Another year like last year he may chose to go elsewhere....say something like UNC.


Losing is frustrating for sure for any coach, but Stevens knew what he was getting into. He's not leaving so soon. When he put his pen on paper in Boston, he knew he was going to be the tank commander for a bit.

Offline CoachBo

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I think the rope for Brad, Danny AND Wyc (at least in my eyes) will extend through this upcoming season and THAT'S IT.

If this time next year, we are still talking about rebuilding and not talking about a competitive basketball team, then I think there's going to be some people on the hot seat over at Causeway Street and I can promise I will not wait around yet another year.

The rebuild stuff might be fun for some people, but in this city, taking a 5-10 year rebuild approach just isn't going to fly.

Oh, Puh-lease.  I don't know if you followed pro sports in the 20th century, but if you did, you should know that besides the Celtics, Boston teams were pretty much a pile of hot garbage.  And even then, fans still turned out.  And the Celtics have won one champhionship since Ronald Reagan was president.  And yet, somehow, the fans show up.  At least not all of them are inpatient, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately? types.

If Celtics fans want to cut bait on Danny, Wyc, and Co after two losing seasons, then they don't deserve a GM and owner as awesome as those two.  Danny inherited a pupu platter of a roster and within 5 years had built a champion, all without getting lucky in the draft or without luring a big time free agent.  Do you know how rare that is?  Do people not remember what it was like when this franchise was owned by Gaston Jr and ran by Chris Wallace?

I don't know if it is a sign of today's society or what, but the demand for instant gratification today just baffles me.


Okay, and the acceptance of mediocrity that some people have just baffles me, so I guess we are even.
Huh, I had no clue that not demanding instant gratification made accepting mediocrity mandatory.

And when did I say I wanted "instant gratification"?

If I want to see my team play well, why is that labeled as "instant gratification"?

I am really getting sick and tired of having 5th grade arguments with some people on this site, seriously!!

As long as I live, I will NEVER understand the joy that some fans of the NBA's greatest franchise find in "rebuilding" - putting terrible basketball on the floor without a sign of light at the end of the tunnel, which is precisely what the situation is for the coming season. There is NOTHING fun or interesting about losing basketball. NOTHING.

Good post, gpap. Right now, in the wake of a totally lost summer it looks like the Pitino Era Part Deux. Totally unacceptable stewardship of the greatest franchise in the league, and totally unacceptable to me as a fan. Grousbeck and Ainge have a responsibility to the tradition of excellence that this franchise stands for to do better. They struck out this summer.

There had better be some answers. And soon.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 11:27:28 AM by CoachBo »
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Offline Endless Paradise

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I think the rope for Brad, Danny AND Wyc (at least in my eyes) will extend through this upcoming season and THAT'S IT.

If this time next year, we are still talking about rebuilding and not talking about a competitive basketball team, then I think there's going to be some people on the hot seat over at Causeway Street and I can promise I will not wait around yet another year.

The rebuild stuff might be fun for some people, but in this city, taking a 5-10 year rebuild approach just isn't going to fly.

Oh, Puh-lease.  I don't know if you followed pro sports in the 20th century, but if you did, you should know that besides the Celtics, Boston teams were pretty much a pile of hot garbage.  And even then, fans still turned out.  And the Celtics have won one champhionship since Ronald Reagan was president.  And yet, somehow, the fans show up.  At least not all of them are inpatient, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately? types.

If Celtics fans want to cut bait on Danny, Wyc, and Co after two losing seasons, then they don't deserve a GM and owner as awesome as those two.  Danny inherited a pupu platter of a roster and within 5 years had built a champion, all without getting lucky in the draft or without luring a big time free agent.  Do you know how rare that is?  Do people not remember what it was like when this franchise was owned by Gaston Jr and ran by Chris Wallace?

I don't know if it is a sign of today's society or what, but the demand for instant gratification today just baffles me.


Okay, and the acceptance of mediocrity that some people have just baffles me, so I guess we are even.

The insistence of making "win-now" moves for the sake of winning now often leads to that very same mediocrity you're rebuking. I don't see many Hawks and Bucks fans celebrating their respective teams' repeated early playoff exits over the past several seasons.

Offline MBunge

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Right now, in the wake of a totally lost summer it looks like the Pitino Era Part Deux. Totally unacceptable stewardship of the greatest franchise in the league, and totally unacceptable to me as a fan. Grousbeck and Ainge have a responsibility to the tradition of excellence that this franchise stands for to do better. They struck out this summer.

There had better be some answers. And soon.

Were you even around for the Pitino Era?  It was one dumb move after another, often without even waiting to see if the move worked, in a desperate panic to win now.  Ainge has been the anti-Pitino this summer.

Man, I'd hate to be the significant others of you guys.  "I know you had a baby just 6 months ago, honey, but that flab is unacceptable.  No, I should't have to wait for you to lose the weight naturally.  Get that liposuction now!"

Mike

Offline fairweatherfan

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Right now, in the wake of a totally lost summer it looks like the Pitino Era Part Deux. Totally unacceptable stewardship of the greatest franchise in the league, and totally unacceptable to me as a fan. Grousbeck and Ainge have a responsibility to the tradition of excellence that this franchise stands for to do better. They struck out this summer.

There had better be some answers. And soon.

Were you even around for the Pitino Era?  It was one dumb move after another, often without even waiting to see if the move worked, in a desperate panic to win now.  Ainge has been the anti-Pitino this summer.

Seriously - it's one thing to be unhappy with the team's apparent lack of progress this offseason, but the tack we're taking is basically the opposite of Pitino.  Pitino did a lot of stupid flailing around in the trade market trying to strike gold and screwed the team up royally in the process.  Danny's sitting tight on a pile of draft picks and young players and looking for one or two all-in moves.  It hasn't paid off much yet but it's very far from Pitino's approach.

Offline KGs Knee

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Ainge is certainly no Pitino. Pitino had no clue how to value the assets he had, let alone what to do with those assets.

Even in Ainge's early days with the C's, when he earned his "Trader Danny" moniker, the seemingly endless cycle of trades was about accumulating better, and more, assets. Almost like one of those 'craigslist traders' who through a series of trades flip a jalopy into a Cadillac.   Ainge had a bit of luck, but he is light years ahead of Pitino in every facet of being an NBA GM. It's a bit disgraceful to compare the two.

Offline slamtheking

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As long as I live, I will NEVER understand the joy that some fans of the NBA's greatest franchise find in "rebuilding" - putting terrible basketball on the floor without a sign of light at the end of the tunnel, which is precisely what the situation is for the coming season. There is NOTHING fun or interesting about losing basketball. NOTHING.

Good post, gpap. Right now, in the wake of a totally lost summer it looks like the Pitino Era Part Deux. Totally unacceptable stewardship of the greatest franchise in the league, and totally unacceptable to me as a fan. Grousbeck and Ainge have a responsibility to the tradition of excellence that this franchise stands for to do better. They struck out this summer.

There had better be some answers. And soon.
Or what?   Are you going leave?  Quit the site?  Find a new winning team to follow?   Go down to C's headquarters and threaten Danny to do what you tell him?

Please enlighten us what the consequences will be.