Danny Ainge Ready To Trade Rondo?

[tarheelsxxiii]

When was Ainge not ready to trade Rondo? Or any of the big 3 once they started to decline....

I get why he will trade him - it makes the most sense, and he doesn't really have a choice at this point. But my only hope is that after ~2 more years go by and we still suck, he gets canned.

[BballTim]

When was Ainge not ready to trade Rondo? Or any of the big 3 once they started to decline....

   He'd have traded anyone on the team at any time if the price was right. He's no fool.

[tarheelsxxiii]

When was Ainge not ready to trade Rondo? Or any of the big 3 once they started to decline....

   He'd have traded anyone on the team at any time if the price was right. He's no fool.

That's not always a good thing. Without chemistry, even the most talented team doesn't win.
He has a huge challenge in front of him. We're starting from scratch. If he makes it happen again, this time.. that'd be somethin to write about.

[obnoxiousmime]

When was Ainge not ready to trade Rondo? Or any of the big 3 once they started to decline....

I get why he will trade him - it makes the most sense, and he doesn't really have a choice at this point. But my only hope is that after ~2 more years go by and we still suck, he gets canned.

Basically how one feels about Ainge hinges on one thing: whether you believe McHale "helped him out" on the Garnett deal or not. Without Garnett there is most likely no title, though wouldn't it have been interesting if the Lakers got Garnett and the Celtics got Gasol? It's impossible to speculate but I believe one thing to be certain: after the Ray Allen deal Jefferson was always on the way out as trade bait for another star. It wouldn't have made sense to keep the young Jeff with two swingmen in their 30s.

Personally I think you have to give Ainge credit because ultimately he did convince Garnett to come over and at the time that was no easy task. The Celtics brand was a shell of its former self and not a place anybody was dying to play in.

Other than that his record is a bit mixed but I'd still say it's been positive overall. He's made more good draft picks than bad but a negative in my eyes is after 08 the team never was able to make the right moves to build the bench. They went through a dry spell in the draft and their FA signings were mostly disappointing. Garnett and Rondo injuries, along with increased age hurt their run but it was also the lack of a deep bench.

Still, it's hard to win a title so he deserves a chance to rebuild again. As much as I knock the talent on the team currently, it's hard to argue he should have gotten a lot better with where he was picking.

Execs that have come through Boston like Morey and McDonough have done well in their new posts, which leads me to believe they're doing SOMETHING right. Also, there's no guarantee a new guy will be any better.

I'd say at his age Ainge could continue another 6-8 years. Then it'd probably be best to bring in new blood.

[D.o.s.]

When was Ainge not ready to trade Rondo? Or any of the big 3 once they started to decline....

   He'd have traded anyone on the team at any time if the price was right. He's no fool.

Correct.

[mmmmm]

but a negative in my eyes is after 08 the team never was able to make the right moves to build the bench. They went through a dry spell in the draft and their FA signings were mostly disappointing. Garnett and Rondo injuries, along with increased age hurt their run but it was also the lack of a deep bench.

I think that version of history overlooks the fact that aside from the obvious KG, Rondo & Perkins injuries, the team was constantly plagued by injuries to the "bench". 

That is, we were constantly losing guys who were counted on to be numbers 6-9 in the rotation.   Powe got injured.  Scal got injured.  Shaq and JO were brought in to give Perkins time to heal -- only they got injured.   Delonte' was brought back to provide depth (and rest) behind Rondo -- only he got injured and missed most of a year.   Big Baby stupidly hurt his hand punching some dude.  Semih Erden played well off the bench ... and got injured.  Marquis was brought in to provide depth behind Pierce -- and got injured.   Nate got injured.   Krstic came over in the Perkins trade and played well - then got injured.   Then we lost him to Russia during the stupid lockout.  Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox each had to have their chest's ripped open and their hearts operated on!!!  Stiemsma emerged as rotation big supporting KG -- and got injured.   Bradley emerges in the second half of his 2nd year as a legit rotation/starter -- and gets injured.  Barbosa.  Pietrus. 

The list of guys -- who could actually contribute positively -- going down due to injury during this era goes on and on.

Every freaking guy OUTSIDE of our supposedly "aging Big 3" kept crumbling.

If most of or even just half of those injuries don't occur?  Who knows how far this team could have gone.

So I disagree that Danny failed to 'build' the bench.  He brought in plenty of guys who should have been adequate for those roles.   They just couldn't stay healthy.

And while it's easy to point at the risk with old guys like Shaq -- most of those guys who got injured were young.

[Celtics4ever]

That is, we were constantly losing guys who were counted on to be numbers 6-9 in the rotation.   Powe got injured.  Scal got injured.  Shaq and JO were brought in to give Perkins time to heal -- only they got injured.   Delonte' was brought back to provide depth (and rest) behind Rondo -- only he got injured and missed most of a year.   Big Baby stupidly hurt his hand punching some dude.  Semih Erden played well off the bench ... and got injured.  Marquis was brought in to provide depth behind Pierce -- and got injured.   Nate got injured.   Krstic came over in the Perkins trade and played well - then got injured.   Then we lost him to Russia during the stupid lockout.  Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox each had to have their chest's ripped open and their hearts operated on!!!  Stiemsma emerged as rotation big supporting KG -- and got injured.   Bradley emerges in the second half of his 2nd year as a legit rotation/starter -- and gets injured.  Barbosa.  Pietrus.

Some of these were expected, put out a team of old guys and this is what you get on some of the veterans.

Still, maybe Ray M. has been there too long and we need a new trainer.

[mmmmm]

That is, we were constantly losing guys who were counted on to be numbers 6-9 in the rotation.   Powe got injured.  Scal got injured.  Shaq and JO were brought in to give Perkins time to heal -- only they got injured.   Delonte' was brought back to provide depth (and rest) behind Rondo -- only he got injured and missed most of a year.   Big Baby stupidly hurt his hand punching some dude.  Semih Erden played well off the bench ... and got injured.  Marquis was brought in to provide depth behind Pierce -- and got injured.   Nate got injured.   Krstic came over in the Perkins trade and played well - then got injured.   Then we lost him to Russia during the stupid lockout.  Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox each had to have their chest's ripped open and their hearts operated on!!!  Stiemsma emerged as rotation big supporting KG -- and got injured.   Bradley emerges in the second half of his 2nd year as a legit rotation/starter -- and gets injured.  Barbosa.  Pietrus.

Some of these were expected, put out a team of old guys and this is what you get on some of the veterans.

Still, may Ray has been there too long and we need a new trainer.

Except, most of those injuries were to _young_ players, not "old guys".

I don't think the training staff had anything to do with Glen Davis' hurting his hand throwing a punch.  Or Delonte' landing on his wrist after leaping through the air.  Or Jeff Green or Chris Wilcox' heart issues.  Or Andrew Bynum landing on top of Perk's shoulders (causing his knee to buckle).  Or DWade's take-down of Rondo.  Or Michael Pietrus landing hard on his back after flying through the air on a play.

Why do folks always need to blame someone?  Life is full of random things and some things you just can't control.

[obnoxiousmime]

That is, we were constantly losing guys who were counted on to be numbers 6-9 in the rotation.   Powe got injured.  Scal got injured.  Shaq and JO were brought in to give Perkins time to heal -- only they got injured.   Delonte' was brought back to provide depth (and rest) behind Rondo -- only he got injured and missed most of a year.   Big Baby stupidly hurt his hand punching some dude.  Semih Erden played well off the bench ... and got injured.  Marquis was brought in to provide depth behind Pierce -- and got injured.   Nate got injured.   Krstic came over in the Perkins trade and played well - then got injured.   Then we lost him to Russia during the stupid lockout.  Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox each had to have their chest's ripped open and their hearts operated on!!!  Stiemsma emerged as rotation big supporting KG -- and got injured.   Bradley emerges in the second half of his 2nd year as a legit rotation/starter -- and gets injured.  Barbosa.  Pietrus.

Some of these were expected, put out a team of old guys and this is what you get on some of the veterans.

Still, may Ray has been there too long and we need a new trainer.

I agree, some of those injuries could have been predicted (Shaq, J O'Neal. Or, the player was so old he slowed down by the end of the season and couldn't give useful minutes (Shaq again, Sheed come to mind).

As far as the other names you mentioned go, those guys were never that good to begin with. Some of them weren't even in the league a few years later, so how good could they have been? Daniels was a bust even when healthy. Stiemsma, Erden, Scal, and Wilcox are not guys I would really call difference-makers. Courtney Lee, Jason Terry, both disappointments and given 4-5 million/year contracts. Nate Robinson was a bright spot though.

Also, if you draft a guy who turns out to be a head case (West, Davis) you certainly deserve some blame for that.

Finally, Green was healthy the year of the trade. He didn't lessen the load on Pierce that year and didn't when he came back either. Ainge will defend him publicly but I'm sure when he gave Green that contract he was expecting a little more than what he's gotten so far.

The David West deal would have been huge but Ainge couldn't get it done. Finding a way to convince Tony Allen to stay was also important.

If you were going to defend Ainge on the bench construction I wouldn't use injuries first, rather I would blame the difficulty getting good players on discounts due to the perception the team was past its prime a few years in. That's the problem when your window is so small. Players were not falling over themselves to come here like they are for LeBron.

[gpap]

That is, we were constantly losing guys who were counted on to be numbers 6-9 in the rotation.   Powe got injured.  Scal got injured.  Shaq and JO were brought in to give Perkins time to heal -- only they got injured.   Delonte' was brought back to provide depth (and rest) behind Rondo -- only he got injured and missed most of a year.   Big Baby stupidly hurt his hand punching some dude.  Semih Erden played well off the bench ... and got injured.  Marquis was brought in to provide depth behind Pierce -- and got injured.   Nate got injured.   Krstic came over in the Perkins trade and played well - then got injured.   Then we lost him to Russia during the stupid lockout.  Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox each had to have their chest's ripped open and their hearts operated on!!!  Stiemsma emerged as rotation big supporting KG -- and got injured.   Bradley emerges in the second half of his 2nd year as a legit rotation/starter -- and gets injured.  Barbosa.  Pietrus.

Some of these were expected, put out a team of old guys and this is what you get on some of the veterans.

Still, may Ray has been there too long and we need a new trainer.

Except, most of those injuries were to _young_ players, not "old guys".

I don't think the training staff had anything to do with Glen Davis' hurting his hand throwing a punch.  Or Delonte' landing on his wrist after leaping through the air.  Or Jeff Green or Chris Wilcox' heart issues.  Or Andrew Bynum landing on top of Perk's shoulders (causing his knee to buckle).  Or DWade's take-down of Rondo.  Or Michael Pietrus landing hard on his back after flying through the air on a play.

Why do folks always need to blame someone?  Life is full of random things and some things you just can't control.

Injuries happen in sports all the time and should never be used as an excuse or a crutch.

The idea is to avoid letting injuries negatively affect your team by providing your team with the most depth possible.

What separates good teams from bad teams is not just star players but also the respective team's front office, who has the foresight to expect such things and plan for them.

[Celtics4ever]

Why do folks always need to blame someone?  Life is full of random things and some things you just can't control.

Because sometimes repeating incidents could mean a pattern.

Last year, I saw Sully play with a serious lack of conditioning and lots of extra weight  and if anything the Strength and conditioning coach/trainer  should be given a long look.

Old guys you expect a higher chance of injury.   Maybe our guys do not all stretch like they should,  who knows.  When your playing a sport professionally, you look for every edge and the team should be looking for every edge too.

[Rondo9]

When was Ainge not ready to trade Rondo? Or any of the big 3 once they started to decline....

I get why he will trade him - it makes the most sense, and he doesn't really have a choice at this point. But my only hope is that after ~2 more years go by and we still suck, he gets canned.

Basically how one feels about Ainge hinges on one thing: whether you believe McHale "helped him out" on the Garnett deal or not. Without Garnett there is most likely no title, though wouldn't it have been interesting if the Lakers got Garnett and the Celtics got Gasol? It's impossible to speculate but I believe one thing to be certain: after the Ray Allen deal Jefferson was always on the way out as trade bait for another star. It wouldn't have made sense to keep the young Jeff with two swingmen in their 30s.

Personally I think you have to give Ainge credit because ultimately he did convince Garnett to come over and at the time that was no easy task. The Celtics brand was a shell of its former self and not a place anybody was dying to play in.

Other than that his record is a bit mixed but I'd still say it's been positive overall. He's made more good draft picks than bad but a negative in my eyes is after 08 the team never was able to make the right moves to build the bench. They went through a dry spell in the draft and their FA signings were mostly disappointing. Garnett and Rondo injuries, along with increased age hurt their run but it was also the lack of a deep bench.

Still, it's hard to win a title so he deserves a chance to rebuild again. As much as I knock the talent on the team currently, it's hard to argue he should have gotten a lot better with where he was picking.

Execs that have come through Boston like Morey and McDonough have done well in their new posts, which leads me to believe they're doing SOMETHING right. Also, there's no guarantee a new guy will be any better.

I'd say at his age Ainge could continue another 6-8 years. Then it'd probably be best to bring in new blood.

Well you got to contribute to the fact that the Celtics didn't have cap space to sign free agents at the time. Danny did a good job utilizing what he got.

[Rondo9]

That is, we were constantly losing guys who were counted on to be numbers 6-9 in the rotation.   Powe got injured.  Scal got injured.  Shaq and JO were brought in to give Perkins time to heal -- only they got injured.   Delonte' was brought back to provide depth (and rest) behind Rondo -- only he got injured and missed most of a year.   Big Baby stupidly hurt his hand punching some dude.  Semih Erden played well off the bench ... and got injured.  Marquis was brought in to provide depth behind Pierce -- and got injured.   Nate got injured.   Krstic came over in the Perkins trade and played well - then got injured.   Then we lost him to Russia during the stupid lockout.  Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox each had to have their chest's ripped open and their hearts operated on!!!  Stiemsma emerged as rotation big supporting KG -- and got injured.   Bradley emerges in the second half of his 2nd year as a legit rotation/starter -- and gets injured.  Barbosa.  Pietrus.

Some of these were expected, put out a team of old guys and this is what you get on some of the veterans.

Still, may Ray has been there too long and we need a new trainer.

Except, most of those injuries were to _young_ players, not "old guys".

I don't think the training staff had anything to do with Glen Davis' hurting his hand throwing a punch.  Or Delonte' landing on his wrist after leaping through the air.  Or Jeff Green or Chris Wilcox' heart issues.  Or Andrew Bynum landing on top of Perk's shoulders (causing his knee to buckle).  Or DWade's take-down of Rondo.  Or Michael Pietrus landing hard on his back after flying through the air on a play.

Why do folks always need to blame someone?  Life is full of random things and some things you just can't control.

Injuries happen in sports all the time and should never be used as an excuse or a crutch.

The idea is to avoid letting injuries negatively affect your team by providing your team with the most depth possible.

What separates good teams from bad teams is not just star players but also the respective team's front office, who has the foresight to expect such things and plan for them.

Some players are just injury prone, no matter how good your training staff injuries still happen. I think did a good job providing the Celtics with some depth this summer.

[mmmmm]

That is, we were constantly losing guys who were counted on to be numbers 6-9 in the rotation.   Powe got injured.  Scal got injured.  Shaq and JO were brought in to give Perkins time to heal -- only they got injured.   Delonte' was brought back to provide depth (and rest) behind Rondo -- only he got injured and missed most of a year.   Big Baby stupidly hurt his hand punching some dude.  Semih Erden played well off the bench ... and got injured.  Marquis was brought in to provide depth behind Pierce -- and got injured.   Nate got injured.   Krstic came over in the Perkins trade and played well - then got injured.   Then we lost him to Russia during the stupid lockout.  Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox each had to have their chest's ripped open and their hearts operated on!!!  Stiemsma emerged as rotation big supporting KG -- and got injured.   Bradley emerges in the second half of his 2nd year as a legit rotation/starter -- and gets injured.  Barbosa.  Pietrus.

Some of these were expected, put out a team of old guys and this is what you get on some of the veterans.

Still, may Ray has been there too long and we need a new trainer.

I agree, some of those injuries could have been predicted (Shaq, J O'Neal. Or, the player was so old he slowed down by the end of the season and couldn't give useful minutes (Shaq again, Sheed come to mind).

Sheed gave more than useful minutes at the end.  Not only was he one our only bigs to stay healthy the whole year (he played in 79 games), he ended up playing very well in the playoffs (.123 WS/48 across 24 games).  Especially when called upon to go more minutes in Game 7 than expected due to Perkins' injury.   Rasheed Wallace was not the reason we didn't win that final.   Did you watch that season?

As far as the other names you mentioned go, those guys were never that good to begin with. Some of them weren't even in the league a few years later, so how good could they have been? Daniels was a bust even when healthy. Stiemsma, Erden, Scal, and Wilcox are not guys I would really call difference-makers. Courtney Lee, Jason Terry, both disappointments and given 4-5 million/year contracts. Nate Robinson was a bright spot though.

Okay so now you are going to spiral down the black hole of debating how 'good' "those guys" were.

Ridiculous.  The team performance with pretty much all of those guys -- when healthy -- was measurably good.

They were not expected to be starters. They were the role players variously expected to provide the 6th - 9th guy off the bench.   They were needed to provide rest for the starters so the starters would be fresher down the stretch and in the playoffs.

But go on moving goal posts if you expect your bench to be filled with all-stars.

I will agree that Courtney Lee was a disappointment -- though at the time of the signing I don't recall a single peep from the forest suggesting it wasn't a great signing to replace the departed Ray Allen.

[SHAQATTACK]

Well he has Smart , Pressey, Bradley , Turner ......he is loading up with guards in case a deal comes his way concerning Rondo.

I think that is why he is loading up guards . 

Doesn't mean Rondo is being traded ,  he will be ready if the situation unfolds .