Author Topic: Pacers forum mod: Green+Zeller+Young +Clippers pick+Philly pick for Hibbert  (Read 13183 times)

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Offline boscel33

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pass.  if we had that third piece to team with hibbert and rondo, then maybe, but hibbert and rondo just get us to lower half of playoffs, imo.
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Offline gpap

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pass.  if we had that third piece to team with hibbert and rondo, then maybe, but hibbert and rondo just get us to lower half of playoffs, imo.

How do you expect to find that "third piece" if you don't even have your second piece?

Offline chambers

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This seems substantially too much to give up for a player who can opt out next year and isn't a superstar.  If he doesn't opt out, it means he's probably been disappointing.

I also don't like trading Jeff Green if we get Hibbert.  The point of getting Hibbert would theoretically be to compete now.  Jeff Green may not be the best small forward ever, but he's definitely the best one on our roster.  We'd be giving up way too much in young talent and future picks to also downgrade a pretty critical roster spot.  Furthermore, I've always liked the concept of reuniting Green and Hibbert.  They're still pretty close after their days at Georgetown.  Perhaps playing together could give each of them a little more spark.

I'm a relative Wallace apologist (he's certainly overpaid but I think he's useful).  But if you're going to trade Zeller, Young, and multiple picks for perhaps only one year of Hibbert, or two years of overpaid no good Hibbert, Wallace is the fairer price.

Good points, and this is where the glass half full/empty debate comes in.

We trade for him and improve this team substantially before Rondo (and other players) become free agents in 2015. He gets a year with Vogel, a year as Co-leader with Rondo and Smart.
We also get his bird rights which isn't huge but if we trade for him we must assume we are willing to pay at least his current salary for him. Depending how good he is, we'll get the best opportunity if he does pick his mental state up come free agency. Being wanted by us, and playing with a young, popular, generous basketball star in Rondo who is getting your average up up over 16 points a game with easy looks all night, and tasting some of the famous Celtic pride.
For Rondo, it's the step we needed to make for him to re-sign from 2015 onwards to show him we're serious about building a contender. We're getting a championship piece for some late picks and an expiring role player BEFORE Rondo becomes a free agent.

Both pros and cons huh?
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Offline Fafnir

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::) Do people actually watch games? Hibbert is way overrated. There are a few games in the playoffs where he disappeared completely. We're talking about a dude who averaged 9 points 5 rebounds in the playoffs last year. A 7'2 guy who can't rebound or run the floor, making 15 mil per year, and you want to trade 5 players for him? The ideas people come up with are mind boggling.

One would assume that the people actually watching the games would see the kind of defensive impact on the floor, and wouldn't use 'a few games in the playoffs' as a deciding sample size.
My issue with taking a chance on Hibbert is that he had basically a full half season and most of the playoffs of playing pretty badly for an all-star caliber center.

That's an awfully long bad slump, one which wasn't correlated with an injury like his terrible shooting to start last year.

I would agree if the players and pieces we'd be sending out weren't so eminently replaceable, save Green.
Eh I hadn't even looked at the "price" in this thread, because I don't consider it realistic.

They'd demand more.

Offline mmmmm

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::) Do people actually watch games? Hibbert is way overrated. There are a few games in the playoffs where he disappeared completely. We're talking about a dude who averaged 9 points 5 rebounds in the playoffs last year. A 7'2 guy who can't rebound or run the floor, making 15 mil per year, and you want to trade 5 players for him? The ideas people come up with are mind boggling.

It wasn't just the playoffs, either.

Hibbert basically disappeared for the second half of last season.

After the All-Star game, he averaged an astonishingly low 4.7 rebounds per game (in 28.2 mpg).

How does a 7 foot center with his ginormous wingspan rebound that poorly over such a long sample size (29 games)?

Sheesh, for comparison, even Rondo, a point guard, operating at some fraction of his usual self, averaged 5.8 rebounds per game during that stretch.

It's easy to suggest that _something_ changed with Hibbert that caused the lights to go dim from some point in mid-season.  But what?

Was it physical?  Mental?

If I'm Danny Ainge, there is no way in heck I touch that hot mess unless I have absolute 100% clarity on what the heck went wrong with Hibbert to cause his level of play to drop off the planet and 100% certainty that it is fixed or fixable.

If it ends up being a 'mental' issue (and indications are that it might, indeed be, given his comments about how a talk with Paul George finally woke him up for the playoffs (too late though)) I'm not sure you want to trade him in _exchange_ for Green -- one of his closest friends.   It would make more sense to do a trade that brings them together on one side of the transaction or the other.   But I don't see how such a transaction can be structured that really helps both teams.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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No thanks. That would be like trading Sully and Olynyk for Chris Copeland.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 01:12:32 PM by rocknrollforyoursoul »
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Offline BitterJim

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If this was on the table it Danny would have already done it. Hibbert isn't overpaid at all and if we're going to use that criticism the same can be said of Jeff Green.

Moving Green's expiring (assuming he opts-out), Young, Zeller and a late first (plus 2nds) is an absolute coup even for a slumping center. I'd throw that same package at BKN for Lopez, at Denver for McGee and at MIL for Sanders. Any takers on that package for a legit center is a good gamble.

For the record I don't even like Roy Hibbert. I just think he's worth more than some late picks and Jeff Green.
Jeff Green earns a fair contract for doing everything above average. Hibberts single skill is rim protection, and he is set to earn 15 million.

The common objection to acquiring Hibbert is his lack of rebounding for someone his size. It's true, he doesn't grab as many rebounds as you'd expect from someone his size and length, especially when you see how good his timing and positioning is as a rim protector.
 So I'll try and explain why his rebounding numbers aren't as high as you'd expect and hopefully make you appreciate the strategy behind the Pacers as the 8th best rebounding team whilst being the best defensive team in the NBA.
 So basically, the way teams guarded Hibbert has changed because of his ability to protect the basket and cause so many problems to those attempting to go into the paint. We've seen the nightmare he can be to Wade and Lebron and how close he came to single handedly taking the Pacers to the finals with his rim protection in the playoffs.
 This adjustment by other teams is what I, and many other observers believe has affected his rebounding numbers more than anything. To try and explain this isn't the easiest. But if I may, and if you care:

1) Hibbert has never been a natural rebounder. He's not an athlete by any means. Because of this, Frank Vogel has developed Hibbert to become the big man that looks for an opponent to box out, rather than go for the ball directly as athletic rebounders often do. David West has become similar in his old age- he's still got beastly strength, but his athleticism has been poor after the knee injury.
  This is part of the Pacers strategy in part, which attempts to completely deny the big men on the opposing team from rebounding, with excellent boxing out and basket denial ability- similarly to Perkins and Garnett. The Pacers take it to another level though, and rather than box out the man first and then go for the ball, Hibbert's goal is to basically deny the opponent getting the ball, and get back into position to protect the basket.
 The result is strong rebounding numbers from your guards and wing players, and incredible rim protection percentages from Hibbert.
 Why do the Pacers do this? One reason is the benefit of this is quick transition from defense to offense, but it also means that they have a 3 players vs 2 players situations around the basket,  and with Roy's rim protection and Lance Stephenson's aggressive moves in and around the basket (like Rondo, Lance's rebounding numbers are great), it's incredibly effective when you have a great boxing out tandem and quick, strong guards.
 It's the help from Garnett/Perkins and Hibbert/West respectively that tends to get overlooked. Basically the idea is to make the opposing bigs face a huge amount of contested rebounds on each possession and limit second chance shot opportunities.
  In fact you'll find that most of the great front court defenses in the NBA have carried big men that give their opponents complete nightmares on the offensive glass.
 Looking at Hibbert's numbers you'll notice that he averaged 9 rebounds per game in 2012. He was also the Miami Heat's worst nightmare. That season Lance averaged 3.3 rebounds.
 When teams started drawing Hibbert away from the basket, it increased this boxing out effect even more because although Hibbert wasn't going for rebounds, he was contesting his opponents attempt at a rebound and this became easier to do when your opponent is 10-15 feet away from the basket and you have Hibberts reach and torso length. Lance ( and coach Vogel) then swooped in and went from a 3.3 rebounder to a 5.7 rebounder in one season.
 The advantage the 2008-mid 2010 Celtics had was that KG was quick enough to help Perkins from the weakside and get back in position when being taken away from the basket.
 The Pacers don't have that exact luxury, but Hibberts recovery ability for second shot attempts shines the most.

I hope this makes sense. Hibbert may not get 12 rebounds a game, but he's preventing 2nd shot attempts by both boxing out and ensuring that any ball that Lance or George or West don't manage to grab isn't being put back up quickly for a high percentage shot.
 Something that destroyed the Celtics last year and will destroy us again this year until we get Sullinger and Rondo a true rim protector and rebound contestor.


The full top 10 when it comes to contested rebounding % is the following:

1) Robin Lopez: 51%

2) Enes Kanter: 50%

3) Zaza Pachulia: 47.6%

4) Nikola Pekovic: 47.5%

5) Roy Hibbert: 47.4%

6) Andre Drummond: 45.8%

7) Jared Sullinger: 45.8%

8) Amir Johnson: 45.5%

9) Greg Monroe: 44.2%

10) Serge Ibaka: 44%

Doesn't take a genius to work out which players are defensive contesters and which players are being contested :) It's almost like 5 'go for the ball' type rebounders vs 5 'go for the man' type rebounders. Hibberts basically the 4th most effective 'man' rebounders in the NBA. Sullinger is special because he does both and he's 6th on the list.

Now imagine putting Hibbert next to Jarred Sullinger and how much of a nightmare teams would have scoring against us in the paint, and getting an offensive rebound and second shot attempt. It would be so fun to watch.

Grea analysis, TP.

I still wouldn't want to give up l this for Hibbert, but now I want to pair Sully with Hibbert
I'm bitter.

Offline MBunge

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If you've got an opportunity to trade for someone like Hibbert, and all you've gotta give up is role players and a late first rounder it's a no brainer for me.

Who do you think Hibbert is?  He's never averaged more than 13 points or 9 boards and has never shot 50% from the floor.  And have you seen him play?  Hibbert has almost no natural athleticism.  He looks like Acie Earl running up and down the court.

If it's just Green, filler and the Clips pick, maybe.  I'm not giving up Zeller, Young and what will be two valuable, early second round picks for a guy who, in the best case scenario, makes us 1st round playoff losers.

Mike

I'm not sure people understand Hibbert's effect on the game.
He's the defensive anchor of the best defense in the NBA. He has the highest shot alteration percentage in the NBA from 0-5 feet from the basket.
Yes he struggled in this playoffs but he was DOMINANT against the Heat in 2 of the last 3 playoff series against them on the defensive end.

He's not a go to scorer- he's a defensive anchor who happens to have a post game.
He's also never played with a pass first point guard and he's been asked to become a second scoring option on a team that didn't have enough scoring options.

Again, he's the best player in the deal and he is what Vogel had built around to result in the best defense in the NBA last season. And people are questioning whether we should hold onto Tyler Zeller James Young and a pick between 25-30 if the opportunity arose.

When did Mark Eaton or Manute Bol ever get paid $15 million a year?

Again, I can imagine a trade for Hibbert that makes sense for Boston.  I'm not sure if one can make sense for Indiana. But to give up a starter in Green, a 1st round pick we have no idea about (what if Paul and/or Blake gets injured?), a center who is younger and more athletic and still on his rookie deal, a young wing who's been compared to Aaron Afflalo and two 2nd round picks likely to be in the first 5 of the second round, in an era when 2nd round picks are more valuable than ever?

All for a guy who makes Boston...what?  First round playoff losers?

Mike

Offline chambers

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If you've got an opportunity to trade for someone like Hibbert, and all you've gotta give up is role players and a late first rounder it's a no brainer for me.

Who do you think Hibbert is?  He's never averaged more than 13 points or 9 boards and has never shot 50% from the floor.  And have you seen him play?  Hibbert has almost no natural athleticism.  He looks like Acie Earl running up and down the court.

If it's just Green, filler and the Clips pick, maybe.  I'm not giving up Zeller, Young and what will be two valuable, early second round picks for a guy who, in the best case scenario, makes us 1st round playoff losers.

Mike

I'm not sure people understand Hibbert's effect on the game.
He's the defensive anchor of the best defense in the NBA. He has the highest shot alteration percentage in the NBA from 0-5 feet from the basket.
Yes he struggled in this playoffs but he was DOMINANT against the Heat in 2 of the last 3 playoff series against them on the defensive end.

He's not a go to scorer- he's a defensive anchor who happens to have a post game.
He's also never played with a pass first point guard and he's been asked to become a second scoring option on a team that didn't have enough scoring options.

Again, he's the best player in the deal and he is what Vogel had built around to result in the best defense in the NBA last season. And people are questioning whether we should hold onto Tyler Zeller James Young and a pick between 25-30 if the opportunity arose.

When did Mark Eaton or Manute Bol ever get paid $15 million a year?

Again, I can imagine a trade for Hibbert that makes sense for Boston.  I'm not sure if one can make sense for Indiana. But to give up a starter in Green, a 1st round pick we have no idea about (what if Paul and/or Blake gets injured?), a center who is younger and more athletic and still on his rookie deal, a young wing who's been compared to Aaron Afflalo and two 2nd round picks likely to be in the first 5 of the second round, in an era when 2nd round picks are more valuable than ever?

All for a guy who makes Boston...what?  First round playoff losers?

Mike

I imagine the Eaton/Manute comparison a joke?
Fact is that Hibbert was the focal point of the best defense in the NBA. He's the anchor, the godfather of the best defense in the NBA. The key piece to its success. Great perimeter defenders, but after you got by those guards, you were meeting the gatekeeper with his 7 foot 5 wingspan. Tyson Chandler's wingspan is 7'2". Dwight Howards is 7'4". Only DeAndre Jordan has a longer wingpsan in the defensive big men elite club at 7'6"

We will be lucky to get a player that's 75% as good as Hibbert out of all those assets.
Zeller? Young? The Philly picks?
We will arguably be trying to trade Green anyway.

Think about it like this. Consider that he has been the second most important player on a team that was (other than the Spurs), probably the best team that Miami had to face for the last 3 seasons- essentially taking  over from the Celtics as the Heat enemy number one.

 Hibbert is to Paul George and the Pacers like Kevin Garnett was in 2012 to Rajon Rondo- almost like a shared MVP with Rondo even though George and Rondo were the better numbers players.

There are things that KG and Hibbert do that are championship intangibles on defense with their impact. Hibberts comes more from his physical attributes whereas KG's was just as much heart at his climbing age. It's extremely rare to find big men that mobile and intelligent with such defensive awareness and anticipation.

Paul George and Hibbert were there two most important players.
Hibbert was the second most important player/most valuable player on a team that took the Miami Heat in their prime to multiple 6 and 7 game series. In some of those series, he was the MVP. He's a two time All Star. He's been a top 5 defensive center statistically for the last 4 seasons.
 If there's any time too get him it's while he needs a fresh start from being the Pacers scapegoat for the last season, it's now before Rondo gets p---ed.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 02:41:32 PM by chambers »
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline Irish Stew

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Done. Trading for a nickel while giving up 5 pennies is always the way to go in the NBA. Just revisit the Garnett trade as an example.

Offline hwangjini_1

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So I asked RealGM Pacers fans if there were any realistic trades they'd pick up the phone for on Hibbert (that didn't include Rondo or Smart).

Pacers forum mod said the preference of Pacers fans is leaning towards keeping him, but they'd entertain something like:

Jeff Green+
Tyler Zeller+
James Young+
Clippers pick+
Philly 2nd rounders

for Roy Hibbert.

Seems pretty reasonable to me. Essentially moving Zeller+Young+Clippers pick for the leagues premier rim protector. Idea is that we make a strong push this season towards the playoffs with Rondo and Hibbert and plan to re-sign Hibbert via opt in or UFA and bird rights.
Leaves us with a pretty awesome young core of:

Rondo
Smart
Sullinger
Hibbert

Bradley
Olynyk

and our Brooklyn+Cavs picks.

We then use our Brooklyn picks to get a small forward solution but also target Kwahi Leonard as a free agent in 2016-17 (among others).

Other strategy here is obviously to keep this as a 'development' aka draft season and aim for a top 10 draft pick. Find our small forward solution with that top 10 pick and use Brooklyn picks to move up if possible.
Then re-up Rondo and get Hibbert as a free agent if he opts out at the same time. That way we can keep James Young and Zeller off the bench. I still like getting Hibberts bird rights and showing him that we really want him with Rondo. Perhaps this entices Green to opt in for one more year or take a nice multi year deal after we looked after him with the last deal.
chambers, thanks for starting a good thread during the dog days of the off season. i don't have anything to the conversation above. but i did want to say the the idea of approaching other teams' boards/posters with such questions is fun and generates a far amount of talk here. tp.

maybe you can do that for other teams as well?

heck, maybe we here can provide a counter proposal and you can go back to their board with it?
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Offline Eja117

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So I asked RealGM Pacers fans if there were any realistic trades they'd pick up the phone for on Hibbert (that didn't include Rondo or Smart).

Pacers forum mod said the preference of Pacers fans is leaning towards keeping him, but they'd entertain something like:

Jeff Green+
Tyler Zeller+
James Young+
Clippers pick+
Philly 2nd rounders

for Roy Hibbert.

Seems pretty reasonable to me. Essentially moving Zeller+Young+Clippers pick for the leagues premier rim protector. Idea is that we make a strong push this season towards the playoffs with Rondo and Hibbert and plan to re-sign Hibbert via opt in or UFA and bird rights.
Leaves us with a pretty awesome young core of:

Rondo
Smart
Sullinger
Hibbert

Bradley
Olynyk

and our Brooklyn+Cavs picks.

We then use our Brooklyn picks to get a small forward solution but also target Kwahi Leonard as a free agent in 2016-17 (among others).

Other strategy here is obviously to keep this as a 'development' aka draft season and aim for a top 10 draft pick. Find our small forward solution with that top 10 pick and use Brooklyn picks to move up if possible.
Then re-up Rondo and get Hibbert as a free agent if he opts out at the same time. That way we can keep James Young and Zeller off the bench. I still like getting Hibberts bird rights and showing him that we really want him with Rondo. Perhaps this entices Green to opt in for one more year or take a nice multi year deal after we looked after him with the last deal.
Keep dreaming Indy

Offline MBunge

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If you've got an opportunity to trade for someone like Hibbert, and all you've gotta give up is role players and a late first rounder it's a no brainer for me.

Who do you think Hibbert is?  He's never averaged more than 13 points or 9 boards and has never shot 50% from the floor.  And have you seen him play?  Hibbert has almost no natural athleticism.  He looks like Acie Earl running up and down the court.

If it's just Green, filler and the Clips pick, maybe.  I'm not giving up Zeller, Young and what will be two valuable, early second round picks for a guy who, in the best case scenario, makes us 1st round playoff losers.

Mike

I'm not sure people understand Hibbert's effect on the game.
He's the defensive anchor of the best defense in the NBA. He has the highest shot alteration percentage in the NBA from 0-5 feet from the basket.
Yes he struggled in this playoffs but he was DOMINANT against the Heat in 2 of the last 3 playoff series against them on the defensive end.

He's not a go to scorer- he's a defensive anchor who happens to have a post game.
He's also never played with a pass first point guard and he's been asked to become a second scoring option on a team that didn't have enough scoring options.

Again, he's the best player in the deal and he is what Vogel had built around to result in the best defense in the NBA last season. And people are questioning whether we should hold onto Tyler Zeller James Young and a pick between 25-30 if the opportunity arose.

When did Mark Eaton or Manute Bol ever get paid $15 million a year?

Again, I can imagine a trade for Hibbert that makes sense for Boston.  I'm not sure if one can make sense for Indiana. But to give up a starter in Green, a 1st round pick we have no idea about (what if Paul and/or Blake gets injured?), a center who is younger and more athletic and still on his rookie deal, a young wing who's been compared to Aaron Afflalo and two 2nd round picks likely to be in the first 5 of the second round, in an era when 2nd round picks are more valuable than ever?

All for a guy who makes Boston...what?  First round playoff losers?

Mike

I imagine the Eaton/Manute comparison a joke?
Fact is that Hibbert was the focal point of the best defense in the NBA. He's the anchor, the godfather of the best defense in the NBA. The key piece to its success. Great perimeter defenders, but after you got by those guards, you were meeting the gatekeeper with his 7 foot 5 wingspan. Tyson Chandler's wingspan is 7'2". Dwight Howards is 7'4". Only DeAndre Jordan has a longer wingpsan in the defensive big men elite club at 7'6"

We will be lucky to get a player that's 75% as good as Hibbert out of all those assets.
Zeller? Young? The Philly picks?
We will arguably be trying to trade Green anyway.

Think about it like this. Consider that he has been the second most important player on a team that was (other than the Spurs), probably the best team that Miami had to face for the last 3 seasons- essentially taking  over from the Celtics as the Heat enemy number one.

 Hibbert is to Paul George and the Pacers like Kevin Garnett was in 2012 to Rajon Rondo- almost like a shared MVP with Rondo even though George and Rondo were the better numbers players.

There are things that KG and Hibbert do that are championship intangibles on defense with their impact. Hibberts comes more from his physical attributes whereas KG's was just as much heart at his climbing age. It's extremely rare to find big men that mobile and intelligent with such defensive awareness and anticipation.

Paul George and Hibbert were there two most important players.
Hibbert was the second most important player/most valuable player on a team that took the Miami Heat in their prime to multiple 6 and 7 game series. In some of those series, he was the MVP. He's a two time All Star. He's been a top 5 defensive center statistically for the last 4 seasons.
 If there's any time too get him it's while he needs a fresh start from being the Pacers scapegoat for the last season, it's now before Rondo gets p---ed.

1.  Did you see Mark Eaton play?  He didn't get in the league until he was 26, had an 11 year career and was the starting center for multiple Utah teams that won 50+ games.  He also averaged over 8 boards a game 6 times, something Hibbert has done only twice so far in his career.  Bol was a joke in every other way but was the same kind of elite "rim-protector" as Hibbert.  Would you trade Green and a 1st for the equivalent of Bol?

2.  Hibbert is not KG.  It's not even close, no matter what sort of qualifiers you want to put on it.    The fact that Indiana LOST to Miami 4-2, 4-3 and 4-2 in the playoffs the last three years is NOT some sign of greatness.  Even in that 4-3 series, Miami beat Indy by double figures three times.  I don't want to run down Hibbert but the guy just came off a playoff run where he averaged 9.3 points, 5.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks while showing the mental toughness of wet tissue paper.

And you want to give up the equivalent of 4 first round and 2 second round picks for the privilege of resigning him to a max or near-max deal, all so Boston can lose in the first round of the playoffs?

Offline Skywalker2.0

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If you've got an opportunity to trade for someone like Hibbert, and all you've gotta give up is role players and a late first rounder it's a no brainer for me.

Who do you think Hibbert is?  He's never averaged more than 13 points or 9 boards and has never shot 50% from the floor.  And have you seen him play?  Hibbert has almost no natural athleticism.  He looks like Acie Earl running up and down the court.

If it's just Green, filler and the Clips pick, maybe.  I'm not giving up Zeller, Young and what will be two valuable, early second round picks for a guy who, in the best case scenario, makes us 1st round playoff losers.

Mike

I'm not sure people understand Hibbert's effect on the game.
He's the defensive anchor of the best defense in the NBA. He has the highest shot alteration percentage in the NBA from 0-5 feet from the basket.
Yes he struggled in this playoffs but he was DOMINANT against the Heat in 2 of the last 3 playoff series against them on the defensive end.

He's not a go to scorer- he's a defensive anchor who happens to have a post game.
He's also never played with a pass first point guard and he's been asked to become a second scoring option on a team that didn't have enough scoring options.

Again, he's the best player in the deal and he is what Vogel had built around to result in the best defense in the NBA last season. And people are questioning whether we should hold onto Tyler Zeller James Young and a pick between 25-30 if the opportunity arose.

When did Mark Eaton or Manute Bol ever get paid $15 million a year?

Again, I can imagine a trade for Hibbert that makes sense for Boston.  I'm not sure if one can make sense for Indiana. But to give up a starter in Green, a 1st round pick we have no idea about (what if Paul and/or Blake gets injured?), a center who is younger and more athletic and still on his rookie deal, a young wing who's been compared to Aaron Afflalo and two 2nd round picks likely to be in the first 5 of the second round, in an era when 2nd round picks are more valuable than ever?

All for a guy who makes Boston...what?  First round playoff losers?

Mike

I imagine the Eaton/Manute comparison a joke?
Fact is that Hibbert was the focal point of the best defense in the NBA. He's the anchor, the godfather of the best defense in the NBA. The key piece to its success. Great perimeter defenders, but after you got by those guards, you were meeting the gatekeeper with his 7 foot 5 wingspan. Tyson Chandler's wingspan is 7'2". Dwight Howards is 7'4". Only DeAndre Jordan has a longer wingpsan in the defensive big men elite club at 7'6"

We will be lucky to get a player that's 75% as good as Hibbert out of all those assets.
Zeller? Young? The Philly picks?
We will arguably be trying to trade Green anyway.

Think about it like this. Consider that he has been the second most important player on a team that was (other than the Spurs), probably the best team that Miami had to face for the last 3 seasons- essentially taking  over from the Celtics as the Heat enemy number one.

 Hibbert is to Paul George and the Pacers like Kevin Garnett was in 2012 to Rajon Rondo- almost like a shared MVP with Rondo even though George and Rondo were the better numbers players.

There are things that KG and Hibbert do that are championship intangibles on defense with their impact. Hibberts comes more from his physical attributes whereas KG's was just as much heart at his climbing age. It's extremely rare to find big men that mobile and intelligent with such defensive awareness and anticipation.

Paul George and Hibbert were there two most important players.
Hibbert was the second most important player/most valuable player on a team that took the Miami Heat in their prime to multiple 6 and 7 game series. In some of those series, he was the MVP. He's a two time All Star. He's been a top 5 defensive center statistically for the last 4 seasons.
 If there's any time too get him it's while he needs a fresh start from being the Pacers scapegoat for the last season, it's now before Rondo gets p---ed.

1.  Did you see Mark Eaton play?  He didn't get in the league until he was 26, had an 11 year career and was the starting center for multiple Utah teams that won 50+ games.  He also averaged over 8 boards a game 6 times, something Hibbert has done only twice so far in his career.  Bol was a joke in every other way but was the same kind of elite "rim-protector" as Hibbert.  Would you trade Green and a 1st for the equivalent of Bol?

2.  Hibbert is not KG.  It's not even close, no matter what sort of qualifiers you want to put on it.    The fact that Indiana LOST to Miami 4-2, 4-3 and 4-2 in the playoffs the last three years is NOT some sign of greatness.  Even in that 4-3 series, Miami beat Indy by double figures three times.  I don't want to run down Hibbert but the guy just came off a playoff run where he averaged 9.3 points, 5.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks while showing the mental toughness of wet tissue paper.

And you want to give up the equivalent of 4 first round and 2 second round picks for the privilege of resigning him to a max or near-max deal, all so Boston can lose in the first round of the playoffs?

I was just about to say this, TP.

Offline Ogaju

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How do u guys really feel about Hibbert?