Author Topic: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov  (Read 11785 times)

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Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2014, 09:53:36 PM »

fitzhickey

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Thompson is a nice young player... probably a better asset than anyone Boston has on their roster aside from Rondo and Smart.  And they don't need him now that they have Kevin Love... so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cavs make another impact trade before the start of the season.

Tristan Thompson is horrible.
He's basically been declared a bust by the Cavs fanbase. The Wolves would rather take an expiring Thadeus Young over Tristan Thompson. He's utterly hopeless defensively.

Sullinger, Olynyk, all our draft picks, even James Young is a better asset at this stage over Tristan Thompson.

Sullinger and Olynyk are both better than Mozgov, but Movgov's size makes him a good role piece on a contender. He doesn't have much potential left though aka reached his ceiling.
Except Thompson is a proven double double guy. Not sure how all our draft picks or James Young are nearly as valuable.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2014, 11:02:16 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Trading for Mozgov would be a great idea for the Celtics. We need a center and if McGee finally is able to seize the starting spot and Nurkic is as good as I think he us Denver can afford to move Mozgov.

I'd give up the Philly pick plus a future protected first

How much do you have to give up so that you would be ambivalent and willing to use a coin flip to determine whether or not you agree to a trade?
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Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2014, 01:34:41 AM »

Offline chambers

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Thompson is a nice young player... probably a better asset than anyone Boston has on their roster aside from Rondo and Smart.  And they don't need him now that they have Kevin Love... so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cavs make another impact trade before the start of the season.

Tristan Thompson is horrible.
He's basically been declared a bust by the Cavs fanbase. The Wolves would rather take an expiring Thadeus Young over Tristan Thompson. He's utterly hopeless defensively.

Sullinger, Olynyk, all our draft picks, even James Young is a better asset at this stage over Tristan Thompson.

Sullinger and Olynyk are both better than Mozgov, but Movgov's size makes him a good role piece on a contender. He doesn't have much potential left though aka reached his ceiling.
Except Thompson is a proven double double guy. Not sure how all our draft picks or James Young are nearly as valuable.

In 31 odd minutes a game.
Look at his per 36 compared to Sullinger, Olynyk and Zeller.
He was the 4th overall pick and he's entering his 4th year. Compare him to Brandon Bass last year and he puts up slightly better numbers in way more touches and 4-5 more minutes per game.

We couldn't even give Bass to the warriors for a trade exception... He's slightly older but he's a proven role player in the NBA on an expiring deal.

Bass' defense is on another level compared to Thompson's too.

He's worth about the same as Brandon Bass when his total production is poorer after taking his defensive ability to offset his mediocre offensive output.
Go to the Cavs board on RealGM and make a poll asking who wants to keep Thompson after next season.

He's another Cavs draft pick bust. Once he leaves the Cavs he'll go to the bench as a $3-$5 million role player or 6th/7th big man off the bench.

Anyway, I think our assets are much more valuable than Tristan Thompson. Just found it a bit of overkill by larbrd33 suggesting he was more valuable than anyone but Smart etc...
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

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Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2014, 07:34:22 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Isn't Tristan Thompson the guy who switched from shooting left handed to shooting right handed just last year?  (Maybe it was the other way around).  Anyway, I think he is still a decent prospect (tall athletic guys always will be) and he may have more upside than  it seems if the shooting switch leads to any improvement.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2014, 08:52:34 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Timothy Mozgov....Tristan Thompson....meh. Not guys I'd be willing to give much for. Neither player has any reachable upside left, and at their current levels are not much more than decent role players.

I would not move either Sully or Oly for either Mozgov or Thompson. Not even if picks were coming back (unless we got a potential high lottery pick-not happening). I would consider trading a singular late first and an expiring contract, but would hope Ainge would pass on both. Neither seems to really be a player likely to move the needle much, and would just end up clogging up salary cap space.

Both are players I would only add as finishing pieces. The C's are a long way off from that stage of roster construction.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2014, 08:58:01 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Tristan Thompson is horrible.  He's basically been declared a bust by the Cavs fanbase. The Wolves would rather take an expiring Thadeus Young over Tristan Thompson. He's utterly hopeless defensively.

Sully and Oly are oft looked as players of great potential here by many.  Yet Thompson puts up similar numbers and better shooting percentages and is horrible?  What are our guys terrible?

I do not think they are future all stars nor do I think Thompson is as well.   But he was on a tanking team with coaching changes.  All see, Thompson, Oly and Sully as rotation players on a good team with Sully having a chance of being a starter but not a prime option on a good team.

Quote
Sullinger, Olynyk, all our draft picks, even James Young is a better asset at this stage over Tristan Thompson.

Yeah, everyone wanted them this off season I forgot.  So many teams we had trouble deciding whom to except back,  in fact, we still have not decided.  Get real, I think if this off season showed anything, it showed, that our assets are not of great value and draft picks, while having some value, are not worth as much outside the top three.  The fact that Ainge is preaching the longer rebuild now shows that this is the case.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 09:10:01 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2014, 09:21:36 AM »

Offline gpap

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Agreed.

If Sully, Olynyk or any other "young gun full of potential" on the team was as good as some people think they are, then they would've already been included in a deal for an all-star.

As much of a pr*ck as Flip Saunder is, there's a reason why he wasn't interested in Ainge's trade package for Love.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2014, 09:30:03 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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Agreed.

If Sully, Olynyk or any other "young gun full of potential" on the team was as good as some people think they are, then they would've already been included in a deal for an all-star.

As much of a pr*ck as Flip Saunder is, there's a reason why he wasn't interested in Ainge's trade package for Love.

There's a range between potential with Jared Sullinger and Wiggins.  Doesn't mean Sullinger doesn't still have potential.

The Cavs had a better package.  This is one of the better returns you could get for this player.  Beats other recent packages for star players.  No shame in it.  Doesn't mean our assets have no value.  Sometimes Celtics fans sound so dramatic and pouty.  Not everyone drops everything to play for Boston.  Cavs had a better opportunity and package makes every bit of sense why he would go there.
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Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2014, 09:33:53 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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Trading for Mozgov would be a great idea for the Celtics. We need a center and if McGee finally is able to seize the starting spot and Nurkic is as good as I think he us Denver can afford to move Mozgov.

I'd give up the Philly pick plus a future protected first

How much do you have to give up so that you would be ambivalent and willing to use a coin flip to determine whether or not you agree to a trade?
Probably the deal I mentioned earlier. I wouldn't feel good about giving up more than that and I don't think the Nugs would do it for less.
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Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2014, 09:40:09 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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What, exactly, would we want to put on the table in a trade for Mozgov?

I'd probably be willing to trade Sully for him.
You and I have very different valuations of Mozgov if you're thinking Thompson/Sully/Olynyk is in the same value range as him.

The best way to describe the gulf in value between Mozgov and those players is to say what sort of draft pick would be needed to make the exchange even in a straight-up trade.
A first rounder coming along with Mozgov, maybe more than just a single pick. I'm not sure it could be protected for the Cavs/Celtics to consider making a trade for a single pick.

Mozgov has only had one year of meaningful production and is getting towards the age where you can't expect a ton of improvement going forward.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2014, 03:34:18 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Trading for Mozgov would be a great idea for the Celtics. We need a center and if McGee finally is able to seize the starting spot and Nurkic is as good as I think he us Denver can afford to move Mozgov.

I'd give up the Philly pick plus a future protected first

I'd rather trade for Nurkic than Mozgov.  I think Nurkic has some upside and he was one of the prospects I was hoping for in the draft.  I'd rather have Nurkic than Young if I had to pick between the two.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2014, 03:48:07 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Thompson is a nice young player... probably a better asset than anyone Boston has on their roster aside from Rondo and Smart.  And they don't need him now that they have Kevin Love... so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cavs make another impact trade before the start of the season.

Tristan Thompson is horrible.
He's basically been declared a bust by the Cavs fanbase. The Wolves would rather take an expiring Thadeus Young over Tristan Thompson. He's utterly hopeless defensively.

Sullinger, Olynyk, all our draft picks, even James Young is a better asset at this stage over Tristan Thompson.

Sullinger and Olynyk are both better than Mozgov, but Movgov's size makes him a good role piece on a contender. He doesn't have much potential left though aka reached his ceiling.
Except Thompson is a proven double double guy. Not sure how all our draft picks or James Young are nearly as valuable.

In 31 odd minutes a game.
Look at his per 36 compared to Sullinger, Olynyk and Zeller.
He was the 4th overall pick and he's entering his 4th year. Compare him to Brandon Bass last year and he puts up slightly better numbers in way more touches and 4-5 more minutes per game.

We couldn't even give Bass to the warriors for a trade exception... He's slightly older but he's a proven role player in the NBA on an expiring deal.

Bass' defense is on another level compared to Thompson's too.

He's worth about the same as Brandon Bass when his total production is poorer after taking his defensive ability to offset his mediocre offensive output.
Go to the Cavs board on RealGM and make a poll asking who wants to keep Thompson after next season.

He's another Cavs draft pick bust. Once he leaves the Cavs he'll go to the bench as a $3-$5 million role player or 6th/7th big man off the bench.

Anyway, I think our assets are much more valuable than Tristan Thompson. Just found it a bit of overkill by larbrd33 suggesting he was more valuable than anyone but Smart etc...

Larbrd is known for overkill. In another thread he said he wouldn't be surprised to see Lebron James average 15 assists as a 43 year old. Sometimes I wonder if the Cavs are now secretly his number 2 favorite team.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2014, 06:36:26 AM »

Offline chambers

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Quote
Tristan Thompson is horrible.  He's basically been declared a bust by the Cavs fanbase. The Wolves would rather take an expiring Thadeus Young over Tristan Thompson. He's utterly hopeless defensively.

Sully and Oly are oft looked as players of great potential here by many.  Yet Thompson puts up similar numbers and better shooting percentages and is horrible?  What are our guys terrible?

I do not think they are future all stars nor do I think Thompson is as well.   But he was on a tanking team with coaching changes.  All see, Thompson, Oly and Sully as rotation players on a good team with Sully having a chance of being a starter but not a prime option on a good team.

Quote
Sullinger, Olynyk, all our draft picks, even James Young is a better asset at this stage over Tristan Thompson.

Yeah, everyone wanted them this off season I forgot.  So many teams we had trouble deciding whom to except back,  in fact, we still have not decided.  Get real, I think if this off season showed anything, it showed, that our assets are not of great value and draft picks, while having some value, are not worth as much outside the top three.  The fact that Ainge is preaching the longer rebuild now shows that this is the case.

I'm not arguing whether or not our assets are worth the world or not. I'm saying our assets are better than Tristan Thompson. Doesn't mean our guys are future All Stars, just means that Tristan Thompson is not special.
 Our guys are cost controlled on better contracts for longer periods of time. Sullinger's shooting percentages are completely warped by his three point attempts. His 2 point percentage is identical to Thompson's, playing out of position against NBA centers. He's also a better free throw shooter by roughly 9 percent.

Olynyk shot 50% from 2 point attempts which was better than Thompson and Sully.
His per 36 numbers are better across the board apart from rebounding where Thompson averaged 10.5 rebounds to Olynyk's 9.4 per 36. He was also a rookie.

Anyway, I don't mind what other fans think our guys are worth for the most part.
Tristan Thompson isn't more valuable than Sullinger or Olynyk. He's a career bench player at this point and Sullinger and Olynyk have more 'potential' and physical results to go with their potential. Thompson's being paid $5.1 million this upcoming season as an expiring 4th overall pick who hasn't lived up to anywhere near the hype he had.

/end rant.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2014, 07:06:31 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Mozgov = junk

Re: Cavs Attempting To Deal for Timofey Mozgov
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2014, 08:44:34 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Agreed.

If Sully, Olynyk or any other "young gun full of potential" on the team was as good as some people think they are, then they would've already been included in a deal for an all-star.

As much of a pr*ck as Flip Saunder is, there's a reason why he wasn't interested in Ainge's trade package for Love.

There's a range between potential with Jared Sullinger and Wiggins.  Doesn't mean Sullinger doesn't still have potential.

The Cavs had a better package.  This is one of the better returns you could get for this player.  Beats other recent packages for star players.  No shame in it.  Doesn't mean our assets have no value.  Sometimes Celtics fans sound so dramatic and pouty.  Not everyone drops everything to play for Boston.  Cavs had a better opportunity and package makes every bit of sense why he would go there.

But what it really comes down to is that Minny preferred Wiggins to Smart and additional firsts. Bennett and Sully are of similar value and Young and Green are two of the most comparable players in the NBA.

I don't blame Minny for wanting to take the surefire #1 pick over Smart and picks, but it's not like it blew our deal out of the water.