Author Topic: why Jeff Green is worth keeping  (Read 11375 times)

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Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2014, 04:01:15 PM »

Offline gpap

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"why Jeff Green is worth keeping"

cuz we got no choice.


This ...and I still think the big prize for Celtics is a top 3 lottery pick .....no chance playing for a title

So,by the time green , bass , Wallace all the rest are done ....so will James best days be behind him, and the Celtics and east can rebuild as normal.

So that's the plan?

To bury our heads in the sand until Lebron hangs it up?

I don't think so and am surprised that anyone would find that acceptable.

yea that is ridiculous especially since it seems to be a consensus fact that Lebron is now off steroids.

Lol, he does seem to have, ahem, lost an awful lot of weight in a short period of time, hasn't he?

Must be the carbs diet ::)

Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2014, 04:09:22 PM »

Offline ddb

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Initially, I was in the Jeff Green's gonna take over The Truth's entire scoring load. Then I came to realize that it was an unrealistic expectation. He may have great athleticism, good shooting, and even solid D, but 16ppg is his ceiling, and I'm fine with that now.

you see....this is the thing.  Jeff Green is NOT a good shooter.  He is far from it. 

Great players show up to play every single night.  Great players find a way to control and/or dominate a game even when their shot isn't falling. Great players show up every season with new and improved pieces to their game.  Jeff Green on the other hand plays well once every 3 games, vanishes if he isn't scoring, and NEVER EVER EVER shows up in the preseason with new moves or improvements to his game. 


Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2014, 04:57:38 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Initially, I was in the Jeff Green's gonna take over The Truth's entire scoring load. Then I came to realize that it was an unrealistic expectation. He may have great athleticism, good shooting, and even solid D, but 16ppg is his ceiling, and I'm fine with that now.

you see....this is the thing.  Jeff Green is NOT a good shooter.  He is far from it. 

Great players show up to play every single night.  Great players find a way to control and/or dominate a game even when their shot isn't falling. Great players show up every season with new and improved pieces to their game.  Jeff Green on the other hand plays well once every 3 games, vanishes if he isn't scoring, and NEVER EVER EVER shows up in the preseason with new moves or improvements to his game.

Not sure anyone here is saying he is great player.  I agree that his big scoring outbursts are too few and far between, but he has reaonable runs of 5-10 games with reasonably consistent scoring.  And I think he plays 'd' at a pretty consistent level, even when his shot isn't falling.  He isn't great, he isn't paid to be great, and he shouldn't be expected to be great.  But he should be expected to be good -- and I think most of the time he achieves that level.

Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2014, 05:38:05 PM »

Offline LB3533

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82 games is a sufficient sample size to know how Jeff Green plays without 2 or 3 All Stars beside him. His prior seasons in green were with much different clubs than this one. In fact, I would say his seasons prior to this last one are less likely to show his current/future performance because conditions are so different. So if he scores more but that comes at a cost of his eFG (which was pretty lousy), then this is a bad thing. To think that his poor eFG last year isn't because he didn't have as many easy shots because he had PP, KG and Allen around him to occupy the defense is pretty absurd. After all, we all know Jeff Green isn't a #1 or a #2 option.

82 games with an established coaching playbook/schemes and a completely agreed upon franchise direction all with a healthy Rajon Rondo.....those 82 games are a more substantial sample size.

Last year's games, and the subsequent statistical production only serve to prove that Jeff Green could not help the Celtics win more than 25 games. That's it. There isn't enough concrete data to prove any possible predicatble future statistical production or future number of Celtic team wins.

People are going to make their guesstimates anyway, but those will be based on too small a sample size....a sample size of a "just starting" to develope product. 

Last year's 82 games with a new role, new head coach (Stevens), new teammates, a recovering all-star teammate (Rondo), previously "secondary role" teammates called upon to fullfill new "frontline" roles themselves.......all these aspects have no barring on a player's eFG%?

Of course, all those changes wouldn't affect anyone's game.

Likewise, if I were to play alongside PP, KG....I too would think it to be very absurd that they wouldn't have any affect on my eFG% either.

(FWIW, the highest level of team basketball I was ever involved with was Junior High Varsity....I might have been the "8th man").

If I were playing with those two "scrubs"...the opposing defenses would triple - quadruple team me.....no question about that.

How do we know that Jeff Green can't effectively learn to elevate his game to turn into a #1 or #2?

From my perspective, Jeff Green has always been reluctant to initiate himself or assert himself to be a #1 or #2.

Last year, it seemed to me that Bradley was the #1, even Sully on the inside "took charge".

The only time Jeff Green looked like a #1 option was from that pass he got from GWallace to beat the Heat at the buzzer. But that wasn't by Jeff's own choice...that was by default.

Dee Brown had more of the #1 option persona than Jeff Green. Reggie Lewis....he was more of a #1 option even if Reggie were to play the game backwards & shooting with his left hand.

And ya know what?

I would have never thought, let alone imagine.......for Avery Bradley to be a legit scoring threat.

But last year, Avery showed something. Now there is that small glimmer....that I think Avery could be a threat on the offensive side of the ball.

Notice, I did not say Avery might be our future #1 option....I just stated "a legit scoring threat".

I'm saying we just need more time for Jeff to adjust to this new role. It takes different players, different amounts of time to grasp things.



Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2014, 06:01:03 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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AB did show signs he could score.   Sully probably can too if he sticks to what he is good at,  and is Good Sully from seventeen feet and in and not Kyle Korver Bad Sully.  But honestly, I do not seen JG, Sully or AB scoring more than 18 PPG and good scorers average over 20 PPG.  This guys will be lucky to hit 15-17 PPG.  But I hope I am wrong.

Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2014, 09:56:04 PM »

Offline gar

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Only so many shots to go around. If we have six guys scoring 18 that is fine with me. Green, Sullinger, Rondo, Olynyk, Bradley, Turner, Smart are all capable of 20+ games and Young will not be far behind.

Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2014, 11:53:03 PM »

fitzhickey

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Only so many shots to go around. If we have six guys scoring 18 that is fine with me. Green, Sullinger, Rondo, Olynyk, Bradley, Turner, Smart are all capable of 20+ games and Young will not be far behind.
108 points from 6 players is ridiculous. When has a team ever gotten production like that from 6 players?

Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2014, 12:13:33 AM »

Offline More Banners

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Only so many shots to go around. If we have six guys scoring 18 that is fine with me. Green, Sullinger, Rondo, Olynyk, Bradley, Turner, Smart are all capable of 20+ games and Young will not be far behind.
108 points from 6 players is ridiculous. When has a team ever gotten production like that from 6 players?

Correct.

Each will likely have a few big defining games, and then average JGreen/Bass/Bradleylastyear-like numbers.  Like they say, not enough balls.

Instead, perhaps, of a top-2 that get 20+ each, we could have 3 that get 15+, which makes sense for a motion O that's hard to stop, with Rondo not being among the top 3 scorers.

Re: why Jeff Green is worth keeping
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2014, 12:55:55 AM »

Offline LB3533

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Only so many shots to go around. If we have six guys scoring 18 that is fine with me. Green, Sullinger, Rondo, Olynyk, Bradley, Turner, Smart are all capable of 20+ games and Young will not be far behind.
108 points from 6 players is ridiculous. When has a team ever gotten production like that from 6 players?

Correct.

Each will likely have a few big defining games, and then average JGreen/Bass/Bradleylastyear-like numbers.  Like they say, not enough balls.

Instead, perhaps, of a top-2 that get 20+ each, we could have 3 that get 15+, which makes sense for a motion O that's hard to stop, with Rondo not being among the top 3 scorers.

As bad as last season was, our club did manage to have 7 players score 14+ PPG (PER 36).

It isn't out of the realm of possibility with adequete improvement on all fronts from every player and from every coaching staff member that we could churn out 4 players with actual productions along those 14 or 15+ lines.

What would also need to happen is for our players' health needs to improve so that most of them would be fit enough to actually play 36 minutes per game for the season.

But before we go for 6 players averaging 18 PPG, why don't we try a realistc 3 or 4 guys each with 14 or 15 PPG......let's try to aim for that first, maybe for pre-allstar goal and if we match that goal we can start to think about improving beyond 14 ot 15, maybe the post-allstar would be the 18+.