Author Topic: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?  (Read 7116 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2014, 03:59:28 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Steve Nash hall of fame for sure.  BUT worst defensive player to ever win MVP award…twice  ::)
love his offensive game and ball skills (passing!) but I still don't think he should have won MVP.
As far as where he stands :
elgin baylor if we are counting him is better
john stockton
charles barkley
karl malone
patrick ewing
are all better
nash should fall somewhere in this area
lets not forget george gervin….more will come to me

Nash was the engine behind an offense that single-handedly reversed the NBA's offensive trends at the time (and still influences the best offenses of today). He absolutely should have won at least one of his MVP awards.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2014, 04:39:45 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9931
  • Tommy Points: 777
Ring is irrelevant at this point as he would only be a minor player on any championship at this point.

2 MVP means clear HOF. As far as all-time PGs go, being irrelevant on defense hurts a lot in my eyes. There are a lot of guys who have been able to do it all.

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2014, 05:45:05 PM »

Offline boscel33

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2667
  • Tommy Points: 166
right next to sir charles, and almost as tall as him...
"There's sharks and minnows in this world. If you don't know which you are, you ain't a shark."

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2014, 05:50:25 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 980
  • Tommy Points: 117
Ring is irrelevant at this point as he would only be a minor player on any championship at this point.

2 MVP means clear HOF. As far as all-time PGs go, being irrelevant on defense hurts a lot in my eyes. There are a lot of guys who have been able to do it all.

Yes, but had Bob MacAdoo not join the 80s Lakers, he'd also be on that list which is why it's better to ride the pine, behind Byron Scott and Mitch Kupchak, than going ringless in the end.

On the other hand, had Pete Maravich spent one more year in Boston, since I think he was still a better bench player (even in his twilight) than Chris Ford was, he too would have ended his career with a ring.

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2014, 07:22:36 PM »

Offline LB3533

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4088
  • Tommy Points: 315
It's called the "Basketball Hall of Fame" is it not?

Or did I miss the memo when they changed it to the "NBA Champions Hall of Fame"?

My point is...and I am not a Robert Horry "hater", but let me say Horry won 12 or even 22 NBA titles, Horry would still not be more deserving of the HoF compared to Bill Russell.

In another alternate parallel universe where there was no Reggie Lewis tragedy.....Reggie would have had career worthy of the HoF even if Reggie hadn't won a single NBA championship.

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2014, 08:43:29 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
I'd say his career puts him firmly behind Kidd and Stockton.  Not a top 5 PG, but maybe top 10.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2014, 02:53:18 AM »

Online moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7639
  • Tommy Points: 441
Steve Nash hall of fame for sure.  BUT worst defensive player to ever win MVP award…twice  ::)
love his offensive game and ball skills (passing!) but I still don't think he should have won MVP.
As far as where he stands :
elgin baylor if we are counting him is better
john stockton
charles barkley
karl malone
patrick ewing
are all better
nash should fall somewhere in this area
lets not forget george gervin….more will come to me
Iverson was a much worse defender than Nash.  Iverson made it a point to look for picks to get stuck on or to (fake) get knocked down by on every single play.

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2014, 10:18:39 AM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Steve Nash hall of fame for sure.  BUT worst defensive player to ever win MVP award…twice  ::)
love his offensive game and ball skills (passing!) but I still don't think he should have won MVP.
As far as where he stands :
elgin baylor if we are counting him is better
john stockton
charles barkley
karl malone
patrick ewing
are all better
nash should fall somewhere in this area
lets not forget george gervin….more will come to me
Iverson was a much worse defender than Nash.  Iverson made it a point to look for picks to get stuck on or to (fake) get knocked down by on every single play.
Yeah, effort might be the difference maker there.  Nash's unatheletic body works against him, but at least he has ALWAYS given 100% on defense.  He gets that fully focused face and does everything he can to keep his man in front of him.  He's also not a "dumb" defensive player, at least he understands where to be.  Nash was never the worst defensive player league, despite what many people say (though he's probably always been in the bottom 100).
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2014, 11:16:47 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Steve Nash hall of fame for sure.  BUT worst defensive player to ever win MVP award…twice  ::)
love his offensive game and ball skills (passing!) but I still don't think he should have won MVP.
As far as where he stands :
elgin baylor if we are counting him is better
john stockton
charles barkley
karl malone
patrick ewing
are all better
nash should fall somewhere in this area
lets not forget george gervin….more will come to me
Iverson was a much worse defender than Nash.  Iverson made it a point to look for picks to get stuck on or to (fake) get knocked down by on every single play.

Possibly, but Iverson finished in the top 15 for career steals, and lead the league in that category twice. Obviously, neither of them finished on an All-Defense team, but that stat can't be totally meaningless.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2014, 11:28:34 AM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Steve Nash hall of fame for sure.  BUT worst defensive player to ever win MVP award…twice  ::)
love his offensive game and ball skills (passing!) but I still don't think he should have won MVP.
As far as where he stands :
elgin baylor if we are counting him is better
john stockton
charles barkley
karl malone
patrick ewing
are all better
nash should fall somewhere in this area
lets not forget george gervin….more will come to me
Iverson was a much worse defender than Nash.  Iverson made it a point to look for picks to get stuck on or to (fake) get knocked down by on every single play.

Possibly, but Iverson finished in the top 15 for career steals, and lead the league in that category twice. Obviously, neither of them finished on an All-Defense team, but that stat can't be totally meaningless.
Steals are pretty close to meaningless when considering a player's overall defense.  Especially when you're leaving your man to do it like Iverson was.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2014, 01:26:49 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Steve Nash hall of fame for sure.  BUT worst defensive player to ever win MVP award…twice  ::)
love his offensive game and ball skills (passing!) but I still don't think he should have won MVP.
As far as where he stands :
elgin baylor if we are counting him is better
john stockton
charles barkley
karl malone
patrick ewing
are all better
nash should fall somewhere in this area
lets not forget george gervin….more will come to me
Iverson was a much worse defender than Nash.  Iverson made it a point to look for picks to get stuck on or to (fake) get knocked down by on every single play.

Possibly, but Iverson finished in the top 15 for career steals, and lead the league in that category twice. Obviously, neither of them finished on an All-Defense team, but that stat can't be totally meaningless.
Steals are pretty close to meaningless when considering a player's overall defense.  Especially when you're leaving your man to do it like Iverson was.
That's true, but it's not as if either played in defensive systems that required them to do much else.

In other words, there's really no reasonable way you can say Nash was a better defender, by any metric save the eye test, but that's mostly because both players were allowed to be defensive liabilities since their offense offset it.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: If Steve Nash doesn't get a championship ring, where does he stand?
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2014, 02:31:54 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Nash's teams didn't play much defense and preferred to beat teams offensively, but Iverson played in great defensive systems.  He had teams that were in the top 2 defensively because he was playing with amazing defensive players.  So many of Iverson's gambles were successful because the ballhandler was already trapped or forced out of control by his teammates.  When his gambles weren't successful (which you don't see in the highlights), whoever he was supposed to be guarding had no one within 20 feet of him.  At least Nash never forced his teams to play 4 on 5 (though close to it).
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale