Poll

who do want as the Celts pg for the long term?

Smart
Rondo

Author Topic: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?  (Read 20490 times)

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Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2014, 09:03:49 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I really don't think the issue is about whether or not you think Rondo is better than Smart right now. It's about whether or not Rondo is worth re-signing after the season and committing a major portion of cap space to a player that we have no current prospects to add to in order to make the team a contender.

Rondo is an asset. Pure and simple. Just like every other player on this team. As an asset with an expiring deal, it makes sense to move him for fair value for another asset while you can that can either also help you in the future or can be later moved as well to bring in another asset later.

People are free to say "You don't know if Smart can do the job simply because he hasn't yet" just as I can easily say you don't know if Rondo will "come back and have a monster year" like so many are projecting based on nothing. All I know is the Rondo I saw last year isn't good enough with the team we have.

You can't assume we won't find a player to add to our team in the next few years that will make us a contender just like you can't assume that we will. So in that case, you have to go with what reality is. And the reality is that we don't have that guy next to Rondo and Rondo is coming towards free agency after this season. Are we just gonna keep that fence lodged up our keister forever?

The issue is that the original question is a loaded one. If you remove the OP's history of bias against Rondo, then the question is pretty clear. If you look at what we know about both players and take the question at face value then its hard to vote in Smart's favor. Its extremely premature to hand him the keys to the franchise when you don't what kind  player we have. Is he even a PG at this level? We can all speculate based on projections, but its still a question thatcan't be definitively answered.

And you're right, Rondo is an asset. So is Marcus Smart. If the right package came along, Danny would trade either of them.
Lets not also forget the OP's clear bias towards young unproven players over any other type of player.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2014, 09:14:35 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Nick lets not forget your bias towards vets and little to no faith in younger players.   Remember you had little to no faith to bashing towards Olynyk? 

I'm not about vets or rookies etc. I like certain kind of players.    Kg for example will always be one of my fav bc he brings it every night. He is a great teammate.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2014, 09:37:46 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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A) Nick has yet to be proven wrong about Olynyk.

B) I wouldn't say that you're biased towards younger players, triboy, but you do seem to take developmental leaps for granted.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2014, 10:34:20 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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lol....smart hasn't even played one preseason game, let alone an actual nba game!!!  smh


Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2014, 10:52:18 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Nick lets not forget your bias towards vets and little to no faith in younger players.   Remember you had little to no faith to bashing towards Olynyk? 

I'm not about vets or rookies etc. I like certain kind of players.    Kg for example will always be one of my fav bc he brings it every night. He is a great teammate.
I actually like young players. I just don't expect much out of them until they prove they can play and win.

Always been a big Sully fan. Always stood by Bradley through thick and thin. The player I wanted out of any other(besides Nerlens Noel of course who I think has Marcus Camby like potential, especially defensively) in the Olynyk draft was Michael Carter Williams. Go look it up on my old posts.

But expecting youth to be anything other than extra parts on a team and projecting them to be things they have yet to prove they can be is an exercise in futility. Young players should earn their time and be cheered on but expecting youth to be difference making players on winning teams and taking over starting jobs and such is not something I won't do.

BTW, I love the Smart pick. I have high expectations for Smart. I hope he will be something special at some point but I am not about to put the cart before the horse and declare Rondo has to go because Smart is here or that Smart is going to be needing minutes or some of the other leaps of faith others take with youth.

For now and the foreseeable future, Rondo is this team's starting PG and Smart is a bench player that needs to prove he belongs.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2014, 11:18:57 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Nick lets not forget your bias towards vets and little to no faith in younger players.   Remember you had little to no faith to bashing towards Olynyk? 

I'm not about vets or rookies etc. I like certain kind of players.    Kg for example will always be one of my fav bc he brings it every night. He is a great teammate.
I actually like young players. I just don't expect much out of them until they prove they can play and win.

Always been a big Sully fan. Always stood by Bradley through thick and thin. The player I wanted out of any other(besides Nerlens Noel of course who I think has Marcus Camby like potential, especially defensively) in the Olynyk draft was Michael Carter Williams. Go look it up on my old posts.

But expecting youth to be anything other than extra parts on a team and projecting them to be things they have yet to prove they can be is an exercise in futility. Young players should earn their time and be cheered on but expecting youth to be difference making players on winning teams and taking over starting jobs and such is not something I won't do.

BTW, I love the Smart pick. I have high expectations for Smart. I hope he will be something special at some point but I am not about to put the cart before the horse and declare Rondo has to go because Smart is here or that Smart is going to be needing minutes or some of the other leaps of faith others take with youth.

For now and the foreseeable future, Rondo is this team's starting PG and Smart is a bench player that needs to prove he belongs.

I get some of your pts. But you think rondo has nothing left to prove ? He has to prove he can get back to playing the way he did pre injury and without the big three. Im not expecting the same production (though thats another debate to prove how good rondo is as franchise calibre player) but to adapt, play solid man to man defense , be with the team when asked by management  etc.

He has shown being handed the torch since 2012-2013 season that he cant lead/carry the team to a successful record. Last season maybe a pass but ppl like tommy was criticizing him for his bad habits for a reason.

Smart has to prove this and that, hasnt played a game yet etc are valid points. But the chances of him busting vs a player drafted later or 2nd round pick is much slimmer. He has shown maturity, work ethic beyond his age and has received praises left and right from the team usa camp. Like i stated i cant see him becoming at worse a more skilled T Allen.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2014, 11:23:59 AM »

Offline BballTim

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I really don't think the issue is about whether or not you think Rondo is better than Smart right now. It's about whether or not Rondo is worth re-signing after the season and committing a major portion of cap space to a player that we have no current prospects to add to in order to make the team a contender.

  It may or may not be true that there are no current prospects to add to Rondo, but that doesn't mean there won't be going forward. If a player becomes available at a later date and you've already flipped Rondo for future assets then you won't be able to acquire that available player and team him up with Rondo. The team has different options right now, you're giving up that flexibility needlessly.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2014, 12:56:25 PM »

Offline Jailan34

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I really don't think the issue is about whether or not you think Rondo is better than Smart right now. It's about whether or not Rondo is worth re-signing after the season and committing a major portion of cap space to a player that we have no current prospects to add to in order to make the team a contender.

  It may or may not be true that there are no current prospects to add to Rondo, but that doesn't mean there won't be going forward. If a player becomes available at a later date and you've already flipped Rondo for future assets then you won't be able to acquire that available player and team him up with Rondo. The team has different options right now, you're giving up that flexibility needlessly.


It isn't needlessly because his value declines every day unless multiple teams give offers worthy of consideration then we could have a bidding war. However as it stands
Rondo has a lot to prove about his health and I wouldnt expect him traded until the deadline.

We also have to consider we may not be able to flip what we have when a star becomes available like we couldn't this time because our assets just aren't that valuable in the eyes of other GM's.
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Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2014, 01:11:24 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I believe it will be Smart long term.  I'm okay with having Smart be a bench guy for his first season.  Having to earn a key role can be a good thing.  But I want to give Smart a chance to show whether or not he can be the main guy for this team, and he'll never get to do that unless he's actually allowed to carry that burden.  (See: Bledsoe, Eric)

I'm in the camp that feels the best plan for this team is to prioritize being competitive a few years from now.  So my hopes are with Smart.

Admittedly I also prefer bigger point guards who can get to the line and change the game with their athleticism and strength.  So that biases me a bit towards Smart, who I think can develop into a good scorer and quality passer in addition to being a defensive demon.
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Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2014, 01:24:09 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Rondo is only 28.

Rondo in what people consider a bad season while coming back from major knee surgery still had 12PPG and 10 APG and 1.4 SPG. That's 9.8 APG on a team devoid of great shooters.

I have all the confidence in the world that Rondo will return to his 14/11/5 with 2 steals self.

I have no such confidence that Smart will ever put up numbers like. I really hope he can and I actually project him to be a 18PPG, 8 APG, 5 RPG, 2 SPG type player in a few years. But I need to see him play and prove he can do that before deciding he can replace a player of Rondo's caliber.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2014, 01:26:21 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I believe it will be Smart long term.  I'm okay with having Smart be a bench guy for his first season.  Having to earn a key role can be a good thing.  But I want to give Smart a chance to show whether or not he can be the main guy for this team, and he'll never get to do that unless he's actually allowed to carry that burden.  (See: Bledsoe, Eric)

I'm in the camp that feels the best plan for this team is to prioritize being competitive a few years from now.  So my hopes are with Smart.

Admittedly I also prefer bigger point guards who can get to the line and change the game with their athleticism and strength.  So that biases me a bit towards Smart, who I think can develop into a good scorer and quality passer in addition to being a defensive demon.

+1

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2014, 01:30:16 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Eric Bledsoe was never given minutes. He put in 3 years of work proving he had earned the opportunity to be given starters minutes and in his 4th year finally developed enough to perform at a high level when given the opportunity.

Bledsoe fits my example of how to handle players perfectly.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2014, 01:36:19 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Eric Bledsoe was never given minutes. He put in 3 years of work proving he had earned the opportunity to be given starters minutes and in his 4th year finally developed enough to perform at a high level when given the opportunity.

Bledsoe fits my example of how to handle players perfectly.

Or example of how to under utilize/develop.
Btw did rondo endure the type of growing pains/limitations you are talking about? Did MCW? And MCW will be better , more developed player for this upcoming season having the chance to have played so many min last year

Look a player like pressey has to earn his min. For a blue chip prospect like smart he has to show that he belongs in the big leagues but  you  also need a plan to grow him into a player he is capable of becoming.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 02:02:17 PM by triboy16f »

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2014, 03:47:05 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Smart has not played one nba game yet. You should ask this question next summer.


This .....it may take three years to make any kind of answer ....really don't get the point of even asking right now ::)

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #89 on: August 20, 2014, 03:48:56 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Eric Bledsoe was never given minutes. He put in 3 years of work proving he had earned the opportunity to be given starters minutes and in his 4th year finally developed enough to perform at a high level when given the opportunity.

Bledsoe fits my example of how to handle players perfectly.

Or example of how to under utilize/develop.
Btw did rondo endure the type of growing pains/limitations you are talking about? Did MCW? And MCW will be better , more developed player for this upcoming season having the chance to have played so many min last year

Look a player like pressey has to earn his min. For a blue chip prospect like smart he has to show that he belongs in the big leagues but  you  also need a plan to grow him into a player he is capable of becoming.

Lucky for us, then, that the coaching staff will have ample time outside of live NBA games to see what Smart is capable of.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.