Poll

who do want as the Celts pg for the long term?

Smart
Rondo

Author Topic: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?  (Read 20526 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2014, 09:30:54 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Yes, if players are having worse nights than other players, they should be benched for the guys who are outplaying them.

Fun fact: coaches decide lineups, not players, and not contract sizes.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2014, 10:20:19 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7739
  • Tommy Points: 804
I didn't read through and someone may have said this already but in my opinion, I'm still waiting to see if Smart can play in the NBA at a high level. I don't care what he SHOULD be able to do... I want to see if he can actually do it. Until he can play better than RR, it's not a question in my mind.

If he can perform at a high level, I don't see why we can't keep both. No matter how good Smart is, we can bring him off the bench for at least 3 seasons if we wanted to. If it came down to demanding being the starter... I think we would cross that bridge when we come to it and then is when you have to choose who to start/keep. I think if it was about making RR and Smart happy, I think someone would be willing to be the 6th man like Crawford, and I think AB wouldn't mind it. If you want to win, you have to be selfless, hopefully whoever it is will have the character to do what's best for winning and not just best for self.

I just don't see how or why this question is being asked when one guy hasn't even played a preseason game, opinions would probably be better formed after Smart's rookie season. Even then, could you imagine how many people would have given up other players after Marshon's rookie season, no doubt in my mind people would have been sending AB on his way. LOL

I wish all players had a little Manu or Crawford in them. It would make so many teams better. Ehh, I guess it would make other teams worse LOL. Oh well, I just wish it for OUR players hahahahaha!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 10:26:51 PM by ImShakHeIsShaq »
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2014, 10:27:22 PM »

Offline LB3533

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4088
  • Tommy Points: 315

Well, would you prefer to give him a shorter max deal and then try to resign him when the cap and the max go up like Lebron is planning, so he can get more money, or would you rather give him what the max is now, locked in long term, while the max rate balloons in the near future?

I'd prefer to sign Rondo to a long term max deal under the current CBA.

I think Rondo would prefer this as well since nobody knows what injuries could happen at any time in the near future or whenever etc.

If we sign Rondo to a long term deal whether it be max or not max, we virtually cement the direction we are going with for Brad Stevens.

Our coaches will understand Rondo is a long term piece, "mainstay" that will over see the "on the floor" coaching-extenstion "duties" a PG holds.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2014, 10:35:35 PM »

Offline LB3533

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4088
  • Tommy Points: 315
I strongly prefer we do not "play around" with another type of "Marcus Banks 2.0" developmental process.

No offense to Smart, but on one hand we have a proven winner/all-star/NBA Champion PG and the other hand we have an unproven "Marcus Banks" hopefull?

No thanks, this is real life, not fantasy basketball. I'll take the proven commodity over the question mark.


Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2014, 10:49:18 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
I strongly prefer we do not "play around" with another type of "Marcus Banks 2.0" developmental process.

No offense to Smart, but on one hand we have a proven winner/all-star/NBA Champion PG and the other hand we have an unproven "Marcus Banks" hopefull?

No thanks, this is real life, not fantasy basketball. I'll take the proven commodity over the question mark.

Rondo is on a decline.  His injury, age , plus lazy bad habits does not = the player he once was before.   I personally will be surprised if he is able to play like he did 2 or 3 seasons ago.  He is going to tape those knees, have padding all over the place. Don't expect him to dunk again. For me out of everything is i dont think he will change the "bad" habit ways as tommy put it at the end of last season.

Smart was picked top 6 in a stacked draft. He would of very well gone #1 if he declared for the 2013 draft. He played on a college team with mediocre talented players(he had to carry the team for alot of games).   Chances of him failing or becoming another Marcus Banks is slim imo.   He is strong, skilled, high level motor and competitiveness that could turn him into the next beast pg in the nba and at worse a more skilled Tony Allen pg version. That still a heck of a player
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 11:05:47 PM by triboy16f »

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2014, 11:38:23 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
I think it's kinda funny how the same people who are saying "we won't know until Smart develops" are typically the same people who go on to say with confidence that Rondo/Smart can coexist. Won't Smart need a pretty good jumper to coexist with Rondo?

Also, what's with everyone around here belittling posters for proposing a hypothetical? Seriously, it's August... What else are we gonna talk about?


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #66 on: August 19, 2014, 11:44:01 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
I think it's kinda funny how the same people who are saying "we won't know until Smart develops" are typically the same people who go on to say with confidence that Rondo/Smart can coexist. Won't Smart need a pretty good jumper to coexist with Rondo?

Also, what's with everyone around here belittling posters for proposing a hypothetical? Seriously, it's August... What else are we gonna talk about?

Read the post above yours, then you might see a possible answer to your second question.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2014, 12:27:51 AM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7739
  • Tommy Points: 804
I think it's kinda funny how the same people who are saying "we won't know until Smart develops" are typically the same people who go on to say with confidence that Rondo/Smart can coexist. Won't Smart need a pretty good jumper to coexist with Rondo?

Also, what's with everyone around here belittling posters for proposing a hypothetical? Seriously, it's August... What else are we gonna talk about?


I hope Smart is better than RR, that means we picked up an amazing player. I still don't get why this question is being asked right now. Sully or KO, CJ or Babb, heck even Pressey or RR is better but this is asking if it's one of our best player (the best without question, if back to form) or someone that we don't even know can play in the NBA.

Actually, come to think of it, the question really isn't that bad... thinking it's a given that we have to choose is what irks me.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2014, 01:13:45 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8825
  • Tommy Points: 289
I believe this team is too far away from a title to keep Rondo. Unless some how team can land a top 10 player before the start of the season RR is gone.

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2014, 02:29:38 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1967
  • Tommy Points: 170
I really don't think the issue is about whether or not you think Rondo is better than Smart right now. It's about whether or not Rondo is worth re-signing after the season and committing a major portion of cap space to a player that we have no current prospects to add to in order to make the team a contender.

Rondo is an asset. Pure and simple. Just like every other player on this team. As an asset with an expiring deal, it makes sense to move him for fair value for another asset while you can that can either also help you in the future or can be later moved as well to bring in another asset later.

People are free to say "You don't know if Smart can do the job simply because he hasn't yet" just as I can easily say you don't know if Rondo will "come back and have a monster year" like so many are projecting based on nothing. All I know is the Rondo I saw last year isn't good enough with the team we have.

You can't assume we won't find a player to add to our team in the next few years that will make us a contender just like you can't assume that we will. So in that case, you have to go with what reality is. And the reality is that we don't have that guy next to Rondo and Rondo is coming towards free agency after this season. Are we just gonna keep that fence lodged up our keister forever?
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2014, 02:56:06 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
Based on the contracts the Celtics currently have, the summer of 2015 is a major inflection point in the Celtics' plans.  It seems like Ainge's primary goal is to maximize flexibility to go in a bunch of different directions next summer, but he will shift goals if he can acquire a major player. 

Trading Rondo takes away the option of having a core All-Star caliber player, so I suspect Ainge isn't interested in trading Rondo unless he believes he has little chance of re-signing Rondo, thinks Rondo is no longer an All-Star caliber player, or can use Rondo to acquire a different top player.  In the absence of the last case, it might only require a 20% possibility that Rondo is re-signed next summer while still being a top player (with Rondo either leaving or having declined too much to be other than a role player the other 80% of the time) to be sufficient odds to keep Rondo rather than try to trade him. 

Keeping Rondo under those conditions is better than trading him for assets that have a 10% chance of producing an All-Star player if your goal is to have pieces on the roster that can be used to build a contender.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2014, 06:17:39 AM »

Offline Onslaught

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1768
  • Tommy Points: 156
How long term? Because I can see both of them being gone in a few years.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2014, 06:41:30 AM »

Offline LilRip

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6857
  • Tommy Points: 391
I think the question for Smart isn't just whether he will produce at the NBA level, but actually, if he can replace/replicate the impact Rondo has historically had (although I realize future Rondo may not have that same impact either).

Right now, it's all up in the air. Do I think Smart can have that impact? Well, yes. I have high hopes for Smart. I think he won't approach the playmaking of Rondo but he'll be decent. His defense will be stronger IMO and his scoring will be more dynamic and consistent as well. Just me though.
- LilRip

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2014, 08:09:52 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
I really don't think the issue is about whether or not you think Rondo is better than Smart right now. It's about whether or not Rondo is worth re-signing after the season and committing a major portion of cap space to a player that we have no current prospects to add to in order to make the team a contender.

Rondo is an asset. Pure and simple. Just like every other player on this team. As an asset with an expiring deal, it makes sense to move him for fair value for another asset while you can that can either also help you in the future or can be later moved as well to bring in another asset later.

People are free to say "You don't know if Smart can do the job simply because he hasn't yet" just as I can easily say you don't know if Rondo will "come back and have a monster year" like so many are projecting based on nothing. All I know is the Rondo I saw last year isn't good enough with the team we have.

You can't assume we won't find a player to add to our team in the next few years that will make us a contender just like you can't assume that we will. So in that case, you have to go with what reality is. And the reality is that we don't have that guy next to Rondo and Rondo is coming towards free agency after this season. Are we just gonna keep that fence lodged up our keister forever?

+1

Re: who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2014, 08:55:26 AM »

Offline RJ87

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11685
  • Tommy Points: 1406
  • Let's Go Celtics!
I really don't think the issue is about whether or not you think Rondo is better than Smart right now. It's about whether or not Rondo is worth re-signing after the season and committing a major portion of cap space to a player that we have no current prospects to add to in order to make the team a contender.

Rondo is an asset. Pure and simple. Just like every other player on this team. As an asset with an expiring deal, it makes sense to move him for fair value for another asset while you can that can either also help you in the future or can be later moved as well to bring in another asset later.

People are free to say "You don't know if Smart can do the job simply because he hasn't yet" just as I can easily say you don't know if Rondo will "come back and have a monster year" like so many are projecting based on nothing. All I know is the Rondo I saw last year isn't good enough with the team we have.

You can't assume we won't find a player to add to our team in the next few years that will make us a contender just like you can't assume that we will. So in that case, you have to go with what reality is. And the reality is that we don't have that guy next to Rondo and Rondo is coming towards free agency after this season. Are we just gonna keep that fence lodged up our keister forever?

The issue is that the original question is a loaded one. If you remove the OP's history of bias against Rondo, then the question is pretty clear. If you look at what we know about both players and take the question at face value then its hard to vote in Smart's favor. Its extremely premature to hand him the keys to the franchise when you don't what kind  player we have. Is he even a PG at this level? We can all speculate based on projections, but its still a question thatcan't be definitively answered.

And you're right, Rondo is an asset. So is Marcus Smart. If the right package came along, Danny would trade either of them.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman