Marion signs with Cavs

[Beat LA]

Marion is still such a versatile defender, so in crunch time would Cleveland go with a lineup of Love, Marion, James, Allen, and Irving?  I know that Lebron can play the 4, but I think Marion's much better suited for the position, if only because of the experience factor.  He always used to guard bigger power forwards like Duncan and Nowitzki when he was in Phoenix, and even though his size prevented him from shutting them down, he was still bothersome defensively and his speed in the open court hurt Dallas and San Antonio.  Of course, it would have helped if Amare could even guard a brick lol. 

However, as dangerous as such a lineup looks on offense (on paper, anyway.), it looks atrocious on defense, especially in the backcourt, even if you replaced Ray with Waiters (who isn't bad, but I don't think he could make up for Kyrie's deficiencies on that end.).  Plus, who's going to cover for Love?  Lebron aside, they have no shot blocking.  Even when he was younger, Varejao was never what the kids today;D are calling a, "rim protector," unless of course that includes his ability to flop as much as his hair - I mean, take charges

[Roy H.]

However, as dangerous as such a lineup looks on offense (on paper, anyway.), it looks atrocious on defense, especially in the backcourt, even if you replaced Ray with Waiters (who isn't bad, but I don't think he could make up for Kyrie's deficiencies on that end.).

I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Kyrie's defense this year.  He was average on that end last year (plus or minus), and he was a very good defender in college and high school.  He's looked excellent with Team USA thus far, especially with Brazil.

With others to share the offensive load, you're going to see defense and passing from Kyrie that you didn't think was in his repertoire.

[Vermont Green]

However, as dangerous as such a lineup looks on offense (on paper, anyway.), it looks atrocious on defense, especially in the backcourt, even if you replaced Ray with Waiters (who isn't bad, but I don't think he could make up for Kyrie's deficiencies on that end.).

I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Kyrie's defense this year.  He was average on that end last year (plus or minus), and he was a very good defender in college and high school.  He's looked excellent with Team USA thus far, especially with Brazil.

With others to share the offensive load, you're going to see defense and passing from Kyrie that you didn't think was in his repertoire.

I agree with the Irving assessment.  He is not good enough to be the best player on the team but he is very good.

[Beat LA]

However, as dangerous as such a lineup looks on offense (on paper, anyway.), it looks atrocious on defense, especially in the backcourt, even if you replaced Ray with Waiters (who isn't bad, but I don't think he could make up for Kyrie's deficiencies on that end.).

I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Kyrie's defense this year.  He was average on that end last year (plus or minus), and he was a very good defender in college and high school.  He's looked excellent with Team USA thus far, especially with Brazil.

With others to share the offensive load, you're going to see defense and passing from Kyrie that you didn't think was in his repertoire.

In fairness, I haven't watched any of the team USA stuff, so I'm going to take your word for it.  Perhaps Lebron will have the KG-like effect on guys like Kyrie, defensively, making them better defenders, or at least making it appear that they're better at defense than they really are, like Garnett did for Ray and Pierce, although that was very different, as both of those guys always had the tools to be excellent defensive players, but they weren't playing with anyone else who could be that shot blocking force behind them.  We all know how Garnett made Ray look like an all-league defender against Wade in 2012 despite the bone spurs, but will Lebron do the same for his guys?  I'm not so sure, and it's not because of his ability, it's more due to his size.  If he was as tall as Garnett I would think so, but because he's a wing guy, I don't know, but he'll undoubtedly make them all look a lot better lol.

As for Kyrie, he's an excellent shooter and scorer, but I've never seen him facilitate that much, but, again, maybe that's because he had to take so many shots, although he is a point guard, so.....

Vermont Green - how can you say that Kyrie can't be the best player on a championship team?  I mean, okay, he hasn't made anyone better, but he also hasn't even made it to the playoffs, which, being in the east, doesn't exactly help his cause   I haven't seen a lot of him play, but I do know that he is an assassin in the 4th quarter, so that tells me that he can flat-out take over a game...with his scoring and shooting.  We'll see about his passing, or at least I will lol because I haven't seen him pass that much at all, really

[fitzhickey]

I think now that Kyrie doesn't have to do everything on the offensive end, he should be able to knuckle down on defense. Same goes for Love.

Really good acquisition for the Cavs though.

[Vox_Populi]

However, as dangerous as such a lineup looks on offense (on paper, anyway.), it looks atrocious on defense, especially in the backcourt, even if you replaced Ray with Waiters (who isn't bad, but I don't think he could make up for Kyrie's deficiencies on that end.).

I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Kyrie's defense this year.  He was average on that end last year (plus or minus), and he was a very good defender in college and high school.  He's looked excellent with Team USA thus far, especially with Brazil.

With others to share the offensive load, you're going to see defense and passing from Kyrie that you didn't think was in his repertoire.

I'm not sure how much stock should be put into how he defends for Team USA. Even Curry has looked decent in short stretches. As for him being average last season, I'm not sure what you mean? The Cavs were 6 points better with him off the floor on defense and he was dead last on his team in dRAPM. He was comfortably one of the worst defenders in the NBA.

I agree he'll be better next season, since he won't have to score as much, and he obviously has the ability. But Irving's biggest impediment has always been effort. And for some players, that's just as hard to change as a complete lack of know-how behind the ball.

[MISSERY]

wizards in trouble>?

pierce otto rice jr. webster = lebron jones miller marion

is it?

[D.o.s.]

However, as dangerous as such a lineup looks on offense (on paper, anyway.), it looks atrocious on defense, especially in the backcourt, even if you replaced Ray with Waiters (who isn't bad, but I don't think he could make up for Kyrie's deficiencies on that end.).

I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Kyrie's defense this year.  He was average on that end last year (plus or minus), and he was a very good defender in college and high school.  He's looked excellent with Team USA thus far, especially with Brazil.

With others to share the offensive load, you're going to see defense and passing from Kyrie that you didn't think was in his repertoire.

I'm not sure how much stock should be put into how he defends for Team USA. Even Curry has looked decent in short stretches. As for him being average last season, I'm not sure what you mean? The Cavs were 6 points better with him off the floor on defense and he was dead last on his team in dRAPM. He was comfortably one of the worst defenders in the NBA.

I agree he'll be better next season, since he won't have to score as much, and he obviously has the ability. But Irving's biggest impediment has always been effort. And for some players, that's just as hard to change as a complete lack of know-how behind the ball.

Yeah, Team USA's defensive principles mandate a lot of sharing (they played a bit of zone against Brazil in addition to ICEing hard on man coverage). Any team that's featuring a lot of those players will have to.

[kraidstar]

i'm not as sold on the cavs as some other posters seem to be. they could easily have defensive problems - two of their 3 top players are weak defenders, and their fourth best player, varejao, is going to be 32 in a month, and he's had major injuries that caused him to miss a ton of games over the last few years.
keep in mind that it was miami's weak defense that really cost them last year against the spurs, and wade and bosh are much better defenders that irving and love.
marion is a nice pickup, but he's 36 and is not the player he used to be on either side of the ball.
add some truly awful defenders in mike miller and ray allen and you have a potentially toxic mix on defense. and it might not be until the playoffs until they really get exposed, i think in the regular season it is easier to cover up defensive deficiencies.
and, aside from james, the cavs might not have a ton of athleticism - irving is athletic, but not incredibly so, and waiters and thompson are very raw. we've seen in recent years how a lack of athleticism has killed teams that looked good on paper - the dwight howard lakers, the celtics a couple years ago, and more recently the nets. even the spurs had been fizzling out in the playoffs before the emergence of leonard and a couple other high-energy guys.
maybe i'm dead wrong, but i just think that this cavs team still has a lot of question marks.

[fitzhickey]

wizards in trouble>?

pierce otto rice jr. webster = lebron jones miller marion

is it?

If you're asking whether the Washington SF group is equal to Cleveland's, the answer is no, not even close.

[mgent]

However, as dangerous as such a lineup looks on offense (on paper, anyway.), it looks atrocious on defense, especially in the backcourt, even if you replaced Ray with Waiters (who isn't bad, but I don't think he could make up for Kyrie's deficiencies on that end.).

I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Kyrie's defense this year.  He was average on that end last year (plus or minus), and he was a very good defender in college and high school.  He's looked excellent with Team USA thus far, especially with Brazil.

With others to share the offensive load, you're going to see defense and passing from Kyrie that you didn't think was in his repertoire.

I'll be the first to admit I was COMPLETELY surprised by Kyrie's FIBA defense.  I knew he was no slouch, but he looked like a top 5 defensive PG in that game.

[manl_lui]

That's a great signing for the Cavs. Everyone was burning the Cavs for having poor defense with just LeBron. Marion will actually help with their defense tremendously. They are still far away from being an elite defensive team, but having LeBron and Marion is a big start. If they can find defensive specialists for the guard and PF/C position, they should be a heavy favorite next season. The team as is (with or without Love) in my honest opinion probably cannot touch San Antonio or a healthy Bulls team.

[Snakehead]

However, as dangerous as such a lineup looks on offense (on paper, anyway.), it looks atrocious on defense, especially in the backcourt, even if you replaced Ray with Waiters (who isn't bad, but I don't think he could make up for Kyrie's deficiencies on that end.).

I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Kyrie's defense this year.  He was average on that end last year (plus or minus), and he was a very good defender in college and high school.  He's looked excellent with Team USA thus far, especially with Brazil.

With others to share the offensive load, you're going to see defense and passing from Kyrie that you didn't think was in his repertoire.

I have to agree Roy, well put.  I've been confused why people don't think Love and Kyrie will be at least average defensively, and if they are, the Cavs will be just fine overall.

Trying to find cracks in the armor?  I'm not saying the Cavs will plow over the league and their D will be the best but they are just fine in that department and their offense seems like it should be outstanding.

[Roy H.]

... he was dead last on his team in dRAPM

I don't have any faith in this stat.  It puts Lebron, for instance, as the 162nd best defender in the NBA, wedged between Hedo Turkuglu and Jeremy Lin.  Klay Thompson is 215th, very close to Steph Curry (231st).

There are dozens and dozens of similar examples. 

[Fafnir]

Iriving played defense like Ben Gordon last year, he'd try on the ball until a screen came his way at which point he'd just stick to the screener and call for help.

He has the physical tools to play defense though, its merely an effort issue. He's got decent size, very good quickness, and decent strength to do better.