Author Topic: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.  (Read 40341 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2014, 10:15:32 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
No shot, stauskas mclemore and two first round picks along with Gerald Wallace taken off our hands wouldn't even be enough for me, the greatest value in that trade would be the increase in quality of our draft pick next year.  Mclemore has done nothing, stauskas is unproven and I would not have drafted him with the 8th pick, and with rondo to the kings we wouldn't get good draft picks.  Also without rondo here were in no rush to acquire superstars like we would be if rondo was still in town, so unloading Gerald Wallace contract isn't even a priority anymore.  I really can't picture a scenario I would be happy letting go of rondo with the kings.

Agreed.  Rondo for Stauskas plus late 1st round picks is a garbage trade for the Celtics.  Sacramento alone doesn't make sense.  There would have to be a 3rd team who could give us better value.  Now if Demarcus Cousins is part of the package, I'd listen.  But I doubt that is the case.

Never ceases to amaze me how much people think Rondo is worth.
This isn't the first year of a 4 year contract- he's in his final year and unproven since injury.
At least accept that there's a huge possibility he walks as a free agent.

Demarcus Cousins? Really?

I don't want to trade Rondo but I know if we have to take that route that Stauskas+McLemore is MORE than enough for an expiring *hope to be All Star again one day* point guard.

  Hilarious. Clearly you're the expert on Rondo's value here. Aside from your being generally enthralled by scouting reports on rookies, what are the chances that either of those two players every become above average starters?

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2014, 10:59:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
I swear, bad threads never die here despite a consensus that this was a horrible trade.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 11:23:19 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2014, 12:48:00 PM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8269
  • Tommy Points: 944
  • Intensity!!!
The only way rondo goes to the kings is in a 3 or 4 way deal.

Maybe a Phoenix Sacramento Boston trade. Or a Phoenix Sacramento Boston Indiana trade. I'd also be surprised if it happened before the season. Makes more sense for teams to low ball Boston based on how rondo looked last year with the injury. Thus it makes even more sense for Boston to allow rondo to return fresh this year, prove he's back, and increase his value. Rondo is playing for his last major contract. If he doesn't have one of his best years ever i would be surprised.


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2014, 01:21:00 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
The only way rondo goes to the kings is in a 3 or 4 way deal.

Maybe a Phoenix Sacramento Boston trade. Or a Phoenix Sacramento Boston Indiana trade. I'd also be surprised if it happened before the season. Makes more sense for teams to low ball Boston based on how rondo looked last year with the injury. Thus it makes even more sense for Boston to allow rondo to return fresh this year, prove he's back, and increase his value. Rondo is playing for his last major contract. If he doesn't have one of his best years ever i would be surprised.

I agree we would need to open up the deal to include at least another team. If Sac is willing to deal both Ben and Stauskas, along with a future first, then it would be up to us who we want to bring in and what the other would be worth on the open market (since we don't want to bring in two additional SGs). If we preferred Stauskas, then what would McLemore and that first be worth to a team with a younger center prospect?

I have 'joked' and brought up Noel as a possibility - he was drafted one spot before McLemore, Philly just drafted Embiid, and they would get an additional first. While this may not be plausible, I would be pretty psyched with a return of Stauskas and Noel for Rondo (if we chose the Rondo route).

I realize I should probably set my sights a little lower on my tier of center prospect, but I do value Rondo highly and am perfectly happy giving him the max knowing that he will still be a very tradeable asset if we do eventually decide to go young.

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #79 on: August 24, 2014, 02:06:31 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
The only way rondo goes to the kings is in a 3 or 4 way deal.

Maybe a Phoenix Sacramento Boston trade. Or a Phoenix Sacramento Boston Indiana trade. I'd also be surprised if it happened before the season. Makes more sense for teams to low ball Boston based on how rondo looked last year with the injury. Thus it makes even more sense for Boston to allow rondo to return fresh this year, prove he's back, and increase his value. Rondo is playing for his last major contract. If he doesn't have one of his best years ever i would be surprised.

I can almost guarantee that Rondo will be on the team come opening night.

Hopefully, we are contenders but if we are not, I am also willing to bet there will be a FAR bigger market for Rondo at the trade deadline (similarly to what happened with Lester and the Sox.)

Right off the bat, I can think of a half dozen teams who would be interested in Rondo at that time (including Sacramento.)

The list would include the Knicks, Bulls (guarantee Rose doesn't make it the whole year), Pacers, Kings, etc.

Til then, Rondo is a Celt.

Hopefully Ainge can get his head out of his you know what and make a move to keep Rondo here long-term.

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #80 on: August 24, 2014, 02:12:52 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
The only way rondo goes to the kings is in a 3 or 4 way deal.

Maybe a Phoenix Sacramento Boston trade. Or a Phoenix Sacramento Boston Indiana trade. I'd also be surprised if it happened before the season. Makes more sense for teams to low ball Boston based on how rondo looked last year with the injury. Thus it makes even more sense for Boston to allow rondo to return fresh this year, prove he's back, and increase his value. Rondo is playing for his last major contract. If he doesn't have one of his best years ever i would be surprised.

I agree we would need to open up the deal to include at least another team. If Sac is willing to deal both Ben and Stauskas, along with a future first, then it would be up to us who we want to bring in and what the other would be worth on the open market (since we don't want to bring in two additional SGs). If we preferred Stauskas, then what would McLemore and that first be worth to a team with a younger center prospect?

I have 'joked' and brought up Noel as a possibility - he was drafted one spot before McLemore, Philly just drafted Embiid, and they would get an additional first. While this may not be plausible, I would be pretty psyched with a return of Stauskas and Noel for Rondo (if we chose the Rondo route).

I realize I should probably set my sights a little lower on my tier of center prospect, but I do value Rondo highly and am perfectly happy giving him the max knowing that he will still be a very tradeable asset if we do eventually decide to go young.

But what on earth would the Celts do with all these shooting guards though?

By my estimation, if such a trade were to go through, this would be the list of all the shooting guards on the team.

-Bradley
-Thornton
-Young
-Stauskas OR McLemore
-Keith Bogans
-Babb

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #81 on: August 24, 2014, 02:49:37 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
The only way rondo goes to the kings is in a 3 or 4 way deal.

Maybe a Phoenix Sacramento Boston trade. Or a Phoenix Sacramento Boston Indiana trade. I'd also be surprised if it happened before the season. Makes more sense for teams to low ball Boston based on how rondo looked last year with the injury. Thus it makes even more sense for Boston to allow rondo to return fresh this year, prove he's back, and increase his value. Rondo is playing for his last major contract. If he doesn't have one of his best years ever i would be surprised.

I agree we would need to open up the deal to include at least another team. If Sac is willing to deal both Ben and Stauskas, along with a future first, then it would be up to us who we want to bring in and what the other would be worth on the open market (since we don't want to bring in two additional SGs). If we preferred Stauskas, then what would McLemore and that first be worth to a team with a younger center prospect?

I have 'joked' and brought up Noel as a possibility - he was drafted one spot before McLemore, Philly just drafted Embiid, and they would get an additional first. While this may not be plausible, I would be pretty psyched with a return of Stauskas and Noel for Rondo (if we chose the Rondo route).

I realize I should probably set my sights a little lower on my tier of center prospect, but I do value Rondo highly and am perfectly happy giving him the max knowing that he will still be a very tradeable asset if we do eventually decide to go young.

But what on earth would the Celts do with all these shooting guards though?

By my estimation, if such a trade were to go through, this would be the list of all the shooting guards on the team.

-Bradley
-Thornton
-Young
-Stauskas OR McLemore
-Keith Bogans
-Babb

This assumes Smart moves over to play PG, which is what many have been calling for. Like I said, I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo and running a three guard line-up of Rondo, Bradley, and Smart. Thornton should also get some time, but I expect him to only log major minutes in the event of an injury. Like Bass, he should receive time, but competing is most likely not the direction this team is headed in this year.

Babb and Bogans are on their way out and young is a couple of years away (and probably should be playing SF anyway).

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #82 on: August 25, 2014, 08:22:56 PM »

Offline Skywalker2.0

  • Oshae Brissett
  • Posts: 70
  • Tommy Points: 247
What do you guys think of this trade:

C's receive: Jose Caldron, Tim Hardaway Jr., Cleanthony Early, 2 firsts

C's trade: Rondo

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #83 on: August 25, 2014, 08:23:41 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
What do you guys think of this trade:

C's receive: Jose Caldron, Tim Hardaway Jr., Cleanthony Early, 2 firsts

C's trade: Rondo

Depends heavily on what the draft picks are.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #84 on: August 25, 2014, 08:51:15 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
What do you guys think of this trade:

C's receive: Jose Caldron, Tim Hardaway Jr., Cleanthony Early, 2 firsts

C's trade: Rondo

Depends heavily on what the draft picks are.

Yeah, like instead of Cleanthony Early and 2 firsts, it would need to be 2 [very] early firsts  :D

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2014, 11:25:34 PM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
No shot, stauskas mclemore and two first round picks along with Gerald Wallace taken off our hands wouldn't even be enough for me, the greatest value in that trade would be the increase in quality of our draft pick next year.  Mclemore has done nothing, stauskas is unproven and I would not have drafted him with the 8th pick, and with rondo to the kings we wouldn't get good draft picks.  Also without rondo here were in no rush to acquire superstars like we would be if rondo was still in town, so unloading Gerald Wallace contract isn't even a priority anymore.  I really can't picture a scenario I would be happy letting go of rondo with the kings.

Agreed.  Rondo for Stauskas plus late 1st round picks is a garbage trade for the Celtics.  Sacramento alone doesn't make sense.  There would have to be a 3rd team who could give us better value.  Now if Demarcus Cousins is part of the package, I'd listen.  But I doubt that is the case.

Never ceases to amaze me how much people think Rondo is worth.
This isn't the first year of a 4 year contract- he's in his final year and unproven since injury.
At least accept that there's a huge possibility he walks as a free agent.

Demarcus Cousins? Really?

I don't want to trade Rondo but I know if we have to take that route that Stauskas+McLemore is MORE than enough for an expiring *hope to be All Star again one day* point guard.

  Hilarious. Clearly you're the expert on Rondo's value here. Aside from your being generally enthralled by scouting reports on rookies, what are the chances that either of those two players every become above average starters?


That's pretty rich criticism coming from Rondos number one fanboy and secretary. But you'd never be biased against the idea of trading Rondo would you.
 The chance Mclemore and Stauskas have of becoming solid players is the same as every other first round rookie. They're solid young players with 10 years ahead of them and we don't know what their ceiling is.
That's not the point here. The point is Rondos trade value.
At this stage, you honestly believe if we attempted to trade Rondo without an extension, that we'd get more than two top 10 draft picks? After he's openly stated he wants to be courted during free agency?
Since you're his cyber-agent tell me what would we get for Rondo Tim?
I'd love to hear your unbiased and completely homerisms-removed opinion. You just scolded me for suggesting that two top picks is plenty. So hit me/amuse everyone with your realistic trade value of Rondo.

"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #86 on: August 26, 2014, 02:09:09 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
  • Tommy Points: 156
The only first round picks the Knicks could offer up are there 2018 and 2020 first rounds.

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2014, 03:21:41 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
No shot, stauskas mclemore and two first round picks along with Gerald Wallace taken off our hands wouldn't even be enough for me, the greatest value in that trade would be the increase in quality of our draft pick next year.  Mclemore has done nothing, stauskas is unproven and I would not have drafted him with the 8th pick, and with rondo to the kings we wouldn't get good draft picks.  Also without rondo here were in no rush to acquire superstars like we would be if rondo was still in town, so unloading Gerald Wallace contract isn't even a priority anymore.  I really can't picture a scenario I would be happy letting go of rondo with the kings.

Agreed.  Rondo for Stauskas plus late 1st round picks is a garbage trade for the Celtics.  Sacramento alone doesn't make sense.  There would have to be a 3rd team who could give us better value.  Now if Demarcus Cousins is part of the package, I'd listen.  But I doubt that is the case.

Never ceases to amaze me how much people think Rondo is worth.
This isn't the first year of a 4 year contract- he's in his final year and unproven since injury.
At least accept that there's a huge possibility he walks as a free agent.

Demarcus Cousins? Really?

I don't want to trade Rondo but I know if we have to take that route that Stauskas+McLemore is MORE than enough for an expiring *hope to be All Star again one day* point guard.

  Hilarious. Clearly you're the expert on Rondo's value here. Aside from your being generally enthralled by scouting reports on rookies, what are the chances that either of those two players every become above average starters?


That's pretty rich criticism coming from Rondos number one fanboy and secretary. But you'd never be biased against the idea of trading Rondo would you.
 The chance Mclemore and Stauskas have of becoming solid players is the same as every other first round rookie. They're solid young players with 10 years ahead of them and we don't know what their ceiling is.
That's not the point here. The point is Rondos trade value.
At this stage, you honestly believe if we attempted to trade Rondo without an extension, that we'd get more than two top 10 draft picks? After he's openly stated he wants to be courted during free agency?
Since you're his cyber-agent tell me what would we get for Rondo Tim?
I'd love to hear your unbiased and completely homerisms-removed opinion. You just scolded me for suggesting that two top picks is plenty. So hit me/amuse everyone with your realistic trade value of Rondo.

You are probably right in that Rondo's trade value (or free agent attracting value, for that matter) currently isn't all that high.

For that reason, I can't see why in the world Danny would trade him.  I see a possibility of his value being much, much higher by mid-season or this off-season than it is right now.

Selling low doesn't seem like the smart move.   

DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #88 on: August 26, 2014, 03:44:51 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
  • Tommy Points: 156

But what on earth would the Celts do with all these shooting guards though?

By my estimation, if such a trade were to go through, this would be the list of all the shooting guards on the team.

-Bradley
-Thornton
-Young
-Stauskas OR McLemore
-Keith Bogans
-Babb

Babb and Bogans will mostly likely be cut.  Bradley can play one in an emergancy, and Young could definitely play the three.  This worry that the C's have too many guards is unfounded IMO.

Re: If we were to trade Rondo to sacramento what would we want back.
« Reply #89 on: August 26, 2014, 06:51:46 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
No shot, stauskas mclemore and two first round picks along with Gerald Wallace taken off our hands wouldn't even be enough for me, the greatest value in that trade would be the increase in quality of our draft pick next year.  Mclemore has done nothing, stauskas is unproven and I would not have drafted him with the 8th pick, and with rondo to the kings we wouldn't get good draft picks.  Also without rondo here were in no rush to acquire superstars like we would be if rondo was still in town, so unloading Gerald Wallace contract isn't even a priority anymore.  I really can't picture a scenario I would be happy letting go of rondo with the kings.

Agreed.  Rondo for Stauskas plus late 1st round picks is a garbage trade for the Celtics.  Sacramento alone doesn't make sense.  There would have to be a 3rd team who could give us better value.  Now if Demarcus Cousins is part of the package, I'd listen.  But I doubt that is the case.

Never ceases to amaze me how much people think Rondo is worth.
This isn't the first year of a 4 year contract- he's in his final year and unproven since injury.
At least accept that there's a huge possibility he walks as a free agent.

Demarcus Cousins? Really?

I don't want to trade Rondo but I know if we have to take that route that Stauskas+McLemore is MORE than enough for an expiring *hope to be All Star again one day* point guard.

  Hilarious. Clearly you're the expert on Rondo's value here. Aside from your being generally enthralled by scouting reports on rookies, what are the chances that either of those two players every become above average starters?


That's pretty rich criticism coming from Rondos number one fanboy and secretary. But you'd never be biased against the idea of trading Rondo would you.
 The chance Mclemore and Stauskas have of becoming solid players is the same as every other first round rookie. They're solid young players with 10 years ahead of them and we don't know what their ceiling is.
That's not the point here. The point is Rondos trade value.
At this stage, you honestly believe if we attempted to trade Rondo without an extension, that we'd get more than two top 10 draft picks? After he's openly stated he wants to be courted during free agency?
Since you're his cyber-agent tell me what would we get for Rondo Tim?
I'd love to hear your unbiased and completely homerisms-removed opinion. You just scolded me for suggesting that two top picks is plenty. So hit me/amuse everyone with your realistic trade value of Rondo.

You are probably right in that Rondo's trade value (or free agent attracting value, for that matter) currently isn't all that high.

For that reason, I can't see why in the world Danny would trade him.  I see a possibility of his value being much, much higher by mid-season or this off-season than it is right now.

Selling low doesn't seem like the smart move.

   His value may go up, and it could just as easily plummet even lower as time goes by. The unfortunate truth (to me at least) is that right now, there probably isn't much of a market for him because of his injury recovery and contract situation. If he had 2 seasons left on his deal and he'd just come back from surgery, he'd be worth waaaayyyy more, even with the injury recovery. Problem is that he's an expiring contract who's openly talked about free agency and the 'experience' of being a free agent that he wants to try. We haven't seen good old Rondo for exactly 18 months. One and a half years.
   He's 28 years and six months old on a bargain contract, approaching his prime, while our team appears to be at least 2-3 years away from being a contender. Adding stars to this roster is not going to be easy. We are one of many teams who'll be going after the free agents of Rondo's class including Rondo. ' He came back midway through last season and averaged his typical 11 to 12 points, 9.8 assists and 5.5 rebounds per game.... but was a lesser player in nearly every aspect. He shot just 40.3 percent from the field, including an abhorrent 32.7 percent outside five feet. He lost 7 percent from his jump shot conversion rate from 2012-13 to 2013-14.'

'Going further, underlying numbers indicate Rondo was even worse than the standard stats. Synergy Sports ranked him in the ninth percentile among players league-wide on a per-possession basis. He made 42.1 percent on shots out of the pick-and-roll, turning the ball over on more than 22 percent of his possessions.'

  Much more distressing was Rondo's play on the defensive end, which oscillated between pretty bad and downright dreadful. Prone to fits of jumpiness and mistakes rooted in over-aggressiveness before his injury, Rondo was all over the place at times following his return. Opposing guards killed Rondo by coaxing him into poor position early in the possession and having him run right into screens on the pick-and-roll.

In his 998 minutes on the floor, the Celtics allowed 110.3 points per 100 possessions. In his 2,948 minutes on the bench, that number dropped to 103.5.

 There are myriad problems with using lineup stats to judge an individual player's defensive impact, but the numbers are far from a coincidence. ESPN's DRPM metric had Rondo 361st among the 437 players ranked; he had the same defensive rating as Nick Young. His win shares per 48 minutes were the lowest of his career, per Basketball-Reference.

  The injury is enormous (in a bad way), and approaching 30 years old for his next big contract, his shooting which was already questioned, has gotten worse, and his stats have gotten worse. The speculation is that he wants a max contract too. How many teams in the NBA want to pay Rondo a maximum deal after his recent half season? I'm not saying he won't get better- but we still haven't seen it, and that scares trade partners. The circumstances just aren't on the Celtics or Rondos side.

I personally believe he can come back to 90%, but he needs god players around him. He needs good shooters and good finishers to utilize his god given ability.

You're right in that this upcoming season is the chance to erase that last 6 months of playing while rehabilitating, but it's going to take a good 3-4 months for people to accept that he can be the player he once was. And by then we'll already be half way through season and he'll be closer to approaching the 'courting' of free agency that he's spoken about.

  Either way Tim's got his panties in a twist as usual at the suggestion of Rondo being traded- like it's completely ridiculous to even suggest that we look at options for moving him considering the circumstances of the Celtics organization.

For this organization to come close to winning a championship with Rondo, we are going to have to get VERY lucky and two things MUST happen.

1) Rondo must AT LEAST return to his former self, or an even better overall, complete player
2) Danny Ainge must find him multiple top 15-20 NBA players to partner with him within the next 2-3 years.

He may have one in Marcus Smart, and he may have a top 25/All Star player in Sullinger, but it's going to take an incredible amount of good fortune to have even one of those must have scenarios to occur. What are the real chances of both of those things happening? Maybe 30 percent if we're being honestly generous?

If Danny decides that Rondo is part of the future I'll be stoked. I love Rondo.
But if he weighs up all his options and determines that becoming a championship team during Rondo's prime is unlikely, then I'll understand if we have to let him go.
He's not worth anything great on the trade market now, so lets hope he gets back to his former self this season, and proves that he can be a top 3 player on a championship team again.
I really hope he can.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.