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Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« on: August 15, 2014, 10:18:04 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Another thread regarding a Rondo rumor is up and i think there is a decent chance a trade is made before the start of the season. The reasons

1. Rondo + current lineup don't mix.  The current lineup is being built with what Stevens perfers out on the floor/strategy.  If Doc was here,  Rondo would likely be here for the long term

2.  Rondo wants max/long term contract after this season but Ainge likely won't give him that. Chances of him playing like playoff Rondo for most part of the regular season is unlikely 1. Coming back from his injury and will never be 110 percent again 2. His age 3. Again not mixing well with this current lineup  and 4. We have Marcus Smart

3. Rondo's value can't much better by the trade deadline. On the flipside guys like Mclemore's value could rise significantly

Other thoughts

1. Celtics/Kings trade rumors last season. But Sac was hesitant to give up Mclemore and Rondo would not agree to an extension. Kings with drafting Stauskus can now trade Mclemore.

2. Rumor on trade night was the Celtics and Kings had a deal which was the 6th pick for Mclemore. But nothing happened and imo its bc Smart was still available by the 6th pick. 

3.  Cousins a few months ago stated he thinks Rondo is the best passing pg in the league.  He has probably been pushing the GM to get Rondo all offseason. 

4. Rudy Gay gave up a chance at becoming a FA and signing with a contending team. He must of been told or promised something that made him stay. 


Trade idea

To Kings: Rondo, Babb, Johnson
To Celtics: Mclemore, Trade exception (7 million), Moreland, 2 1sts, Terry  (traded or waived)

Potential lineup
C - Zeller/ Moreland
PF - Sullinger/KO
SF - Green/Turner
SG - AB/Mclemore
PG - Smart/Pressey

And Danny also wants to see what the Rockets (lineup worse than last season) can offer.  Prob the best offer he can get is something like. 

To Rockets: Rondo, Babb, Johnson
To Celtics: Jones, Beverly, Trade exception (8.5m),  2 1sts

Lineup

C- Zeller/KO
PF - Sully/Jones
SF - Green/Turner
SG - AB/Smart/Turner
PG - Beverley/Smart/Pressey

If Danny has made up his mind to trade Rondo and has these two offers on the table, which one would you take?




« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:34:23 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2014, 10:30:52 PM »

Offline gpap

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Neither.

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2014, 10:34:03 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Another thread regarding a Rondo rumor is up and i think there is a decent chance a trade is made before the start of the year. The reasons

1. Rondo + current lineup don't mix.  The current lineup is being built with what Stevens perfers out on the floor/strategy.  If Doc was here,  Rondo would likely be here for the long term

2.  Rondo wants max/long term contract after this season but Ainge likely won't give him that. Chances of him playing like playoff Rondo for most part of the regular season is unlikely 1. Coming back from his injury and will never be 110 percent again 2. His age 3. Again not mixing well with this current lineup  and 4. We have Marcus Smart

  So the idea is to trade your best player because he doesn't fit in with all the players you'll probably end up dumping before you're good again? Brilliant!

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2014, 10:36:40 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2014, 10:40:21 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Another thread regarding a Rondo rumor is up and i think there is a decent chance a trade is made before the start of the year. The reasons

1. Rondo + current lineup don't mix.  The current lineup is being built with what Stevens perfers out on the floor/strategy.  If Doc was here,  Rondo would likely be here for the long term

2.  Rondo wants max/long term contract after this season but Ainge likely won't give him that. Chances of him playing like playoff Rondo for most part of the regular season is unlikely 1. Coming back from his injury and will never be 110 percent again 2. His age 3. Again not mixing well with this current lineup  and 4. We have Marcus Smart

  So the idea is to trade your best player because he doesn't fit in with all the players you'll probably end up dumping before you're good again? Brilliant!

1. Danny tried to dump these guys for Love.  He prob tried other things but other teams wouldn't bite and give up one of their top 2 players.

2. Again Danny tried to get support for Rondo. It didn't workout. Expecting this young current lineup to work with Rondo  is expecting alot.  Rondo will excel with stars but on his own he can't carry teams to win. He just doesn't score enough and if his passing doesn't shine, then he is not as his best.  Some ppl here say its not his passing , its the guys around him. Either way, Rondo's best skills (assists, steals (need shot blocker) can't be maximized

3. Don't you think it's kind of strange the Celts drafted Smart?? then signed AB to a long term deal?  These guys were not picked/signed to come off the bench

4. Why would Danny give Rondo max with Smart ready to start by next season?  Max or a long term contract. Rondo rejected a 2 year max deal. He is looking for max but for longer years.  At least with decent money longer years bc it could he his last major contract

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2014, 10:59:34 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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It's pretty well documented that you prefer (and find more likely/realistic) the Celtics continue towards the future without Rondo, but this is a little silly.

1) It is not imperative that the lineup "mixes" because we are not going to win a championship this year (which is why you want to trade Rondo in the first place).

2) I have no rebuttal that Rondo's age doesn't work out as the roster is currently constructed, but trading him for pennies on the dollar is not the best option. However, with the way medicine is these days I would not be surprised if Rondo comes back as good as ever. Yes, time will tell, but I think that either way, Smart could use Rondo's tutelage as a big advantage in early development. The rest comes down to opinion and assumptions, but I say let Rondo play and then make a more defined path. Worse comes to worse as you predict and Rondo isn't his old self, we could always let him walk and have some nice cap space. I personally am not a big believer in Mclemore, but to each his own.

3) The opposite could also be argued. If Rondo plays even like he did last year (low efficiency, still great playmaking, mediocre defense) and Mclemore does likewise, Rondo is clearly the better option statistically (situationally maybe not, for example in another rebuild, but that is irrelevant). If Rondo plays better than last year, his value could go way up from where it currently presides, which is the argument you are using to support Mclemore. Of course, the likelihood of both could be debated, but that once again comes down to assumptions or opinion.

The rest of the points are laden with assumptions such as, "what if, in my opinion, probably, and must of."

I respect your opinion as to Rondo, and your opinion about trading him may end up correct (seeming a little more likely each day). I will not irrationally defend Rondo, but this particular post is  making something out of nothing (or, more specifically, a twitter post by some guy with a spotty record).

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2014, 11:09:38 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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It's pretty well documented that you prefer (and find more likely/realistic) the Celtics continue towards the future without Rondo, but this is a little silly.

1) It is not imperative that the lineup "mixes" because we are not going to win a championship this year (which is why you want to trade Rondo in the first place).

2) I have no rebuttal that Rondo's age doesn't work out as the roster is currently constructed, but trading him for pennies on the dollar is not the best option. However, with the way medicine is these days I would not be surprised if Rondo comes back as good as ever. Yes, time will tell, but I think that either way, Smart could use Rondo's tutelage as a big advantage in early development. The rest comes down to opinion and assumptions, but I say let Rondo play and then make a more defined path. Worse comes to worse as you predict and Rondo isn't his old self, we could always let him walk and have some nice cap space. I personally am not a big believer in Mclemore, but to each his own.

3) The opposite could also be argued. If Rondo plays even like he did last year (low efficiency, still great playmaking, mediocre defense) and Mclemore does likewise, Rondo is clearly the better option statistically (situationally maybe not, for example in another rebuild, but that is irrelevant). If Rondo plays better than last year, his value could go way up from where it currently presides, which is the argument you are using to support Mclemore. Of course, the likelihood of both could be debated, but that once again comes down to assumptions or opinion.

The rest of the points are laden with assumptions such as, "what if, in my opinion, probably, and must of."

I respect your opinion as to Rondo, and your opinion about trading him may end up correct (seeming a little more likely each day). I will not irrationally defend Rondo, but this particular post is  making something out of nothing (or, more specifically, a twitter post by some guy with a spotty record).

Mclemore had a decent rookie season. He is still so young. He was considered a top three pick for the last draft until the cavs surprised the league by taking  Bennett.  Danny liked Mclemore but couldn't move up to get him

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« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 11:15:11 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2014, 11:11:47 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Another thread regarding a Rondo rumor is up and i think there is a decent chance a trade is made before the start of the year. The reasons

1. Rondo + current lineup don't mix.  The current lineup is being built with what Stevens perfers out on the floor/strategy.  If Doc was here,  Rondo would likely be here for the long term

2.  Rondo wants max/long term contract after this season but Ainge likely won't give him that. Chances of him playing like playoff Rondo for most part of the regular season is unlikely 1. Coming back from his injury and will never be 110 percent again 2. His age 3. Again not mixing well with this current lineup  and 4. We have Marcus Smart

  So the idea is to trade your best player because he doesn't fit in with all the players you'll probably end up dumping before you're good again? Brilliant!

1. Danny tried to dump these guys for Love.  He prob tried other things but other teams wouldn't bite and give up one of their top 2 players.

2. Again Danny tried to get support for Rondo. It didn't workout. Expecting this young current lineup to work with Rondo  is expecting alot.  Rondo will excel with stars but on his own he can't carry teams to win. He just doesn't score enough and if his passing doesn't shine, then he is not as his best.  Some ppl here say its not his passing , its the guys around him. Either way, Rondo's best skills (assists, steals (need shot blocker) can't be maximized

3. Don't you think it's kind of strange the Celts drafted Smart?? then signed AB to a long term deal?  These guys were not picked/signed to come off the bench

4. Why would Danny give Rondo max with Smart ready to start by next season?  Max or a long term contract. Rondo rejected a 2 year max deal. He is looking for max but for longer years.  At least with decent money longer years bc it could he his last major contract

  Rondo didn't reject a 2 year max deal. He rejected a contract extension. Danny drafted Smart because he's an asset. He probably doesn't know what he's going to do in terms of his pg going forward, but clearly he'd rather add players to Rondo than dump him and start from scratch. You don't know if or when Smart will be ready to start, and Bradley's contract has nothing to do with Rondo. Bradley's not a pg and Rondo's not a sg.

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2014, 11:29:14 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Danny to me wants Mclemore.  If rumor was true that Mclemore, Thomas and a 1st was offered for Rondo on the condition that he agrees to an extension , the offer today for Mclemore and 1sts , promise of extension or not, makes sense.  And the kings can afford to do this as they drafted Stauskus who can start at the SG position

- Also considering the rumor Danny was interested in signing Thomas this offseason

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2014, 11:40:40 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Another thread regarding a Rondo rumor is up and i think there is a decent chance a trade is made before the start of the year. The reasons

1. Rondo + current lineup don't mix.  The current lineup is being built with what Stevens perfers out on the floor/strategy.  If Doc was here,  Rondo would likely be here for the long term

2.  Rondo wants max/long term contract after this season but Ainge likely won't give him that. Chances of him playing like playoff Rondo for most part of the regular season is unlikely 1. Coming back from his injury and will never be 110 percent again 2. His age 3. Again not mixing well with this current lineup  and 4. We have Marcus Smart

  So the idea is to trade your best player because he doesn't fit in with all the players you'll probably end up dumping before you're good again? Brilliant!

1. Danny tried to dump these guys for Love.  He prob tried other things but other teams wouldn't bite and give up one of their top 2 players.

2. Again Danny tried to get support for Rondo. It didn't workout. Expecting this young current lineup to work with Rondo  is expecting alot.  Rondo will excel with stars but on his own he can't carry teams to win. He just doesn't score enough and if his passing doesn't shine, then he is not as his best.  Some ppl here say its not his passing , its the guys around him. Either way, Rondo's best skills (assists, steals (need shot blocker) can't be maximized

3. Don't you think it's kind of strange the Celts drafted Smart?? then signed AB to a long term deal?  These guys were not picked/signed to come off the bench

4. Why would Danny give Rondo max with Smart ready to start by next season?  Max or a long term contract. Rondo rejected a 2 year max deal. He is looking for max but for longer years.  At least with decent money longer years bc it could he his last major contract

  Rondo didn't reject a 2 year max deal. He rejected a contract extension. Danny drafted Smart because he's an asset. He probably doesn't know what he's going to do in terms of his pg going forward, but clearly he'd rather add players to Rondo than dump him and start from scratch. You don't know if or when Smart will be ready to start, and Bradley's contract has nothing to do with Rondo. Bradley's not a pg and Rondo's not a sg.

Ainge offered an extension (max money). Rondo rejected the offer bc he wants at least a longer deal.

Having Smart coming off the bench this season, moving on fwd etc. hurts his growth

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2014, 11:43:12 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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It's pretty well documented that you prefer (and find more likely/realistic) the Celtics continue towards the future without Rondo, but this is a little silly.

1) It is not imperative that the lineup "mixes" because we are not going to win a championship this year (which is why you want to trade Rondo in the first place).

2) I have no rebuttal that Rondo's age doesn't work out as the roster is currently constructed, but trading him for pennies on the dollar is not the best option. However, with the way medicine is these days I would not be surprised if Rondo comes back as good as ever. Yes, time will tell, but I think that either way, Smart could use Rondo's tutelage as a big advantage in early development. The rest comes down to opinion and assumptions, but I say let Rondo play and then make a more defined path. Worse comes to worse as you predict and Rondo isn't his old self, we could always let him walk and have some nice cap space. I personally am not a big believer in Mclemore, but to each his own.

3) The opposite could also be argued. If Rondo plays even like he did last year (low efficiency, still great playmaking, mediocre defense) and Mclemore does likewise, Rondo is clearly the better option statistically (situationally maybe not, for example in another rebuild, but that is irrelevant). If Rondo plays better than last year, his value could go way up from where it currently presides, which is the argument you are using to support Mclemore. Of course, the likelihood of both could be debated, but that once again comes down to assumptions or opinion.

The rest of the points are laden with assumptions such as, "what if, in my opinion, probably, and must of."

I respect your opinion as to Rondo, and your opinion about trading him may end up correct (seeming a little more likely each day). I will not irrationally defend Rondo, but this particular post is  making something out of nothing (or, more specifically, a twitter post by some guy with a spotty record).

Mclemore had a decent rookie season. He is still so young. He was considered a top three pick for the last draft until the cavs surprised the league by taking  Bennett.  Danny liked Mclemore but couldn't move up to get him

I respect that stance on Mclemore. I do see how he could be appealing based on flashes he had in college and even briefly in the NBA.  However, he was, statistically, pretty bad on a bad team. I think of being an NBA GM to a game of gin (card game-like gin rummy, but with your hand hidden). When making a move, you must consider the upside, the downside, and the likelihood of either occurring. Even when you make the right move, you could end up waiting for a long time, or even lose, simply because you could not predict luck and what others are doing. If you get antsy waiting for the specific card, you may get antsy. Will being antsy get you the win a few times? Yeah. Is it statistically right? No.

If you look at this trade from that perspective (in which you are emphasizing Mclemore), there are a lot of things to look at. The upside of your situation is that the Kings win the lottery (or get a top 3 pick), which would entail not making the playoffs (likely) by a long shot (not too likely to be worse than #5 like they were this year). Now, the proposed lottery odd changes would help your case, which is something to consider. However, it is not a dramatic change. The other upside is that Mclemore becomes a future star, rebounding from a pretty poor rookie season (not likely by any stretch). The median upside is that Mclemore becomes starter-caliber at SG, which is more likely, but we have AB as a decent young starter on a decent deal. Now, a preferred "decent young starter" is up to opinion, as Mclemore would presumably be more offensively-oriented than AB with better size but not as good defense. However, now comes the worse case. The Kings make the playoffs (not super-likely, but more likely with Rondo, as Stauskas could slide into the SG spot), and Mclemore is a bust (once again, not super-likely, but if you look at the "what if the guys remain the same as last year" argument, Mclemore is in trouble). Now, neither Rondo nor Mclemore is likely to perform as poorly as last year, but it is the worst case to consider. If Mclemore is a bust, we are basically stuck with Marshon Brooks on a contract. However, Mclemore performing as poorly as last year is just as likely as him performing like a future star, so the "starter" upside is what is to be examined, and it is a wash with our current roster. The draft picks would be nice with the subsequent direction our team would be taking (probably tanking), but nothing super special, as they are more than likely somewhere in the 5-9 range. If the Kings make the playoffs, we are left with some mediocre draft picks (although Danny is pretty darn good in that range, but I don't like to bank on that).

Now let's look if we keep Rondo. The worst case is that he plays awfully, which would help our tank effort. We may not find a trade partner, but we would get a better draft pick. We could then let Rondo walk with nothing left on the books. Best case is that we get superstar Rondo every night and start a great upward  trajectory. Both are not super likely, but the downside is minimized. Median result is that Rondo plays slightly better than last year ("back to old form", perhaps with a lost step, but increased efficiency) which would raise his trade value anyway.

In conclusion: Could Rondo for Mclemore end up better for us? Yes. Is it more likely to help us more than keeping Rondo in this situation? No.

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2014, 11:50:04 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Ainge offered an extension (max money). Rondo rejected the offer bc he wants at least a longer deal.

Of course. Why would any player in the NBA accept the extension of a current contract when they could accept a new contract worth tens of millions of dollars more a year or two later?
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Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2014, 11:51:34 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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But again what are the odds of keeping Rondo for the long term??  If we don't make moves to add all stars, you can't maximize his top skills (assists, steals).

Mclemore like you said is on his way to becoming a starter in this league + the 2015-2016 Kings pick (might still not make the playoffs out of the tough West) and our own pick risng.   Also, you lose Rondo but you get to accelerate Smart's growth.  He has been only getting praises left and right  and on his way to make team USA team eventually.

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2014, 11:55:24 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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If we got Stauskus and 2 firsts from Sac then I would think of doing it. Mostly bc I don't think Sac will be in the playoffs and could actually bomb this season even with Rondo. Also I like Stauskus especially with his insane 3point shooting.

Re: Rondo to Kings or Rockets trade ideas
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2014, 11:58:38 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Ainge offered an extension (max money). Rondo rejected the offer bc he wants at least a longer deal.

Of course. Why would any player in the NBA accept the extension of a current contract when they could accept a new contract worth tens of millions of dollars more a year or two later?

Exactly. He is going to want Max money and years.    But why would Danny give it to him unless he plays out of his mind?  He will have no problem giving Rondo 13-14 million dollars for three years. Rondo is not taking that.

This trade also helps Rondo. Gives him a chance to make the playoffs ,  become playoff rondo and get paid for his next contract.