Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic

[Monkhouse]

Please stop offering our young prospects and picks for a center that has failed all expectations, and hasn't proven himself a winner.... Hibbert is overrated as a defender.. Hes great at contesting due to his size, but laterally is slow, and can't keep up with most power forwards. Unlike Gasol, who relies on his intelligence in guarding and making the right plays. Or Noah who relies on a mix of intelligence/hustle, nothing about Hibbert should put him anywhere near the level of defensive ability amongst Noah, Howard, or Gasol...

Hibbert is a buy low high reward type of candidate.. I'm not offering Smart, Young, Rondo, or Bradley... What we should offer is either Green, Bass, and maybe a few picks... Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

[SHAQATTACK]

Bos sends: Smart , Bogans , Anthony , Zellar , 2015 pick
Ind sends: Hibbert, Watson

I might include KO, if we keep the pick and zellar .

PG: Rondo       /  Watson
SG: Bradley     / Turner
SF: Green       / Wallace
PF: Sully         / Bass
 C: Hibbert     / KO or Zellar

I don't think the Pacers are interested in our rookies or draft picks. They are not looking to rebuild, they are looking to compete.

Yup.....this is the crux of the matter

[Kane3387]

Bos sends: Smart , Bogans , Anthony , Zellar , 2015 pick
Ind sends: Hibbert, Watson

I might include KO, if we keep the pick and zellar .

PG: Rondo       /  Watson
SG: Bradley     / Turner
SF: Green       / Wallace
PF: Sully         / Bass
 C: Hibbert     / KO or Zellar

I don't think the Pacers are interested in our rookies or draft picks. They are not looking to rebuild, they are looking to compete.

Yup.....this is the crux of the matter

Whatever. Without Paul George and Lance they aren't beating Cleveland or the bulls. They aren't even beating the wizards. They sure as heck aren't beating any of the elite teams out west. So let them "compete" if they're good with a first round exit.

They should be realistic, punt for a year, and get some assets.

[hpantazo]

Bos sends: Smart , Bogans , Anthony , Zellar , 2015 pick
Ind sends: Hibbert, Watson

I might include KO, if we keep the pick and zellar .

PG: Rondo       /  Watson
SG: Bradley     / Turner
SF: Green       / Wallace
PF: Sully         / Bass
 C: Hibbert     / KO or Zellar

I don't think the Pacers are interested in our rookies or draft picks. They are not looking to rebuild, they are looking to compete.

Yup.....this is the crux of the matter

Whatever. Without Paul George and Lance they aren't beating Cleveland or the bulls. They aren't even beating the wizards. They sure as heck aren't beating any of the elite teams out west. So let them "compete" if they're good with a first round exit.

They should be realistic, punt for a year, and get some assets.

They need the playoff ticket money. Not all owners are as committed to winning above all else as our owners are.

[Celtics4ever]

It may be time to offer Green for him.

[Future Celtics Owner]

The most I would offer for Hibbert is Bass, Green, and a pick.  If not I move on.

wooow, i'm not a big Jeff Green fan, but imho, he still has a HUGE upside, and if he gets any consistency, he would be a borderline all star.
The trade you suggested, definitely favors the Pacers

I agree Jeff Green is a borderline all star. Almost everyone hates him and is willing to give him away for nothing. I think he's gonna surprise a lot of people this year because their expectations are too low.

[Beat LA]

Pretty amazing Hibbert’s value has depreciated so much. He's still a team changing defender.

Yeah, like how his pick and roll defense changed his team from 1st in the East to ECF losers.  He's a good post defender, but his speed killed the Pacers in that series.  Every time Miami called a screen and Hibbert showed on the ball-handler, it was a 5 on 4 with Hibbert sprinting to catch up.  It probably got them 50 open corner 3s with nobody even running out to contest, as well as plenty of LeBron posters on David West.

After how Hibbert played in the playoffs, he's 100% untradable given the value that IND would need/want in return.

Indiana were the number one ranked pick and roll defense in the league. The basis of their pick and roll defense is for the center to neither hedge hard, like Miami, nor drop too deep, San Antonio style. In 2013, Miami played more of Haslem than Lewis or Battier, so Hibbert's lack of mobility wasn't as big a issue. Spoelstra changed his offensive scheme to increase his spacing i.e. Lewis started, Vogel didn't change his defense to increase his rotation speed. Indiana don't ever go small and when Miami's shooters are hitting 3s, you can't win unless you speed up. There's a reason why the Spurs don't play Duncan and Splitter against Miami, they get lit up.

Not sure why you're pinning this on Hibbert. He was asked to operate in a way outside his comfort zone.

What exactly am I pinning on Hibbert, other than a very bad postseason?  He had half as many points and rebounds as he did the year before in the same number of games.  Guarding Chris Bosh and Andersen should not be outside of a Center's comfort zone, especially not for one earning the max.

Also, are you sure the Pacer's pick and roll success had everything to do with their Center and nothing to do with their size, athleticism, and physicality on the perimeter between Hill, Stephenson, and George (3 of the best defender)?  Plus West, who is a great pick and roll defender, and CJ Watson as their 3rd guard who is also great.

I did not watch all the Pacer games, but I watched all of the ECF, and Hibbert was definitely hedging pretty hard.  Maybe that was only their strategy because they were scared of LeBron getting hot.  The idea is to only hedge far enough that you don't get lost on the play, which Hibbert let happen over and over, causing rotations to scramble and Miami's passing to get them whatever shot they wanted.  Splitter was also hedging in the Finals, the difference was he's much better at recovering, and having Duncan cover for you on the block means a lot more than West/Scola.

West is a great pick and roll defender?  It's an honest question, because I don't get to see many Pacers games.

As for Hibbert, why hedge at all given his limited quickness?  I don't remember him doing that in 2013, when he utterly dominated the Heat.  Your point about Lewis is spot on, btw, TP for the analysis.  At this point in his career though, I wonder why Indiana didn't work that match up to their advantage like they did in previous years against Battier, when he tried to guard West.  Throw it inside, put fouls on Lewis, and get him out of the game.  Next question.  I mean, it's not even a debate about how much of a mismatch that is lol, and even if he's never called for a foul, he's not a shot-blocker, so keep getting it inside.  If the Pacers had ridden Hibbert and West in 2012 and 2013, they win those series.  Period.  It's when they went away from their strength that Miami got back into the games.  Get it inside, make them double team you, and reap the rewards of an around-the-horn offense.  They must move it quickly, though.  Players today, instead of immediately passing, often get the ball, read it over, and then pass it, giving defenses the ability to catch up.  You must move it quickly.  Someone tell them to watch Bird's teams on NBA TV or ESPN Classic, lol.  It's not that hard.  Swing it around to the open guy, and if he doesn't want the shot, pump-fake and send it back around the horn.  Someone will be open.  This isn't exactly rocket science

Besides, Hibbert wasn't even the worst big man defensively for the Pacers.  That distinction belongs to Luis Scola.  Talk about a nightmare.  He couldn't guard anybody lol.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Paul George messed around with Hibberts girl. Many people believe that is what caused Hibbert's bad play, or lack of focus.

Look for yourself:https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=paul+george+hibbert+girlfriend&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Of course its all just rumors...

[Future Celtics Owner]

Please stop offering our young prospects and picks for a center that has failed all expectations, and hasn't proven himself a winner.... Hibbert is overrated as a defender.. Hes great at contesting due to his size, but laterally is slow, and can't keep up with most power forwards. Unlike Gasol, who relies on his intelligence in guarding and making the right plays. Or Noah who relies on a mix of intelligence/hustle, nothing about Hibbert should put him anywhere near the level of defensive ability amongst Noah, Howard, or Gasol...

Hibbert is a buy low high reward type of candidate.. I'm not offering Smart, Young, Rondo, or Bradley... What we should offer is either Green, Bass, and maybe a few picks... Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

Tyler Zeller does not have"great length". He actually has the same length  as James Young....our shooting guard . 7' wingspan and 8'8'' standing reach. That does not mean he can't be good or decent....but he does not have great length.

[Celtics4ever]

Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

I hope your right but logic tells me your a homer.   Tyler has never played in an all star game and Roy has two.  As pointed out above he has height but average arms for his height not the great long ones that block shots and the like.   I do think most underrate him here but it is clear you overrate.

[Monkhouse]

Please stop offering our young prospects and picks for a center that has failed all expectations, and hasn't proven himself a winner.... Hibbert is overrated as a defender.. Hes great at contesting due to his size, but laterally is slow, and can't keep up with most power forwards. Unlike Gasol, who relies on his intelligence in guarding and making the right plays. Or Noah who relies on a mix of intelligence/hustle, nothing about Hibbert should put him anywhere near the level of defensive ability amongst Noah, Howard, or Gasol...

Hibbert is a buy low high reward type of candidate.. I'm not offering Smart, Young, Rondo, or Bradley... What we should offer is either Green, Bass, and maybe a few picks... Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

Tyler Zeller does not have"great length". He actually has the same length  as James Young....our shooting guard . 7' wingspan and 8'8'' standing reach. That does not mean he can't be good or decent....but he does not have great length.

Okay and Hibbert is slower, doesn't have a mid range, and other than defending, what else can he do? Every time I saw him take a contested fade away hook shot from 16-18 feet  in the playoffs I cringed..

Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

I hope your right but logic tells me your a homer.   Tyler has never played in an all star game and Roy has two.  As pointed out above he has height but average arms for his height not the great long ones that block shots and the like.   I do think most underrate him here but it is clear you overrate.

Ummm okay? I didn't overrated... I said he MAY... I think he is twice as faster than Hibbert, and the eye test clearly shows it... And the fault with Zeller is that while he may never be DPOY, he runs the floor well, has a nice mid range shot, and was never ever given the proper minutes to prove himself. Also Allstar doesn't mean JACK. Its a popularity contest. Why did Kobe win this year despite him being injured? Lets be honest.

Logic tells me your reading comprehension is pretty bad.

___

You all missed my point anyways. I'm not offering anyone of VALUE for Hibbert. And I think Ainge knows this too. He isn't going to offer any young prospects or picks, or even Rondo unless we're getting Bledsoe.

[manl_lui]

just a complete theoretical question

pretend we are able to get Hibbert

do you think the presence of Hibbert will raise Green's level of play? and vice versa

[Moranis]

Please stop offering our young prospects and picks for a center that has failed all expectations, and hasn't proven himself a winner.... Hibbert is overrated as a defender.. Hes great at contesting due to his size, but laterally is slow, and can't keep up with most power forwards. Unlike Gasol, who relies on his intelligence in guarding and making the right plays. Or Noah who relies on a mix of intelligence/hustle, nothing about Hibbert should put him anywhere near the level of defensive ability amongst Noah, Howard, or Gasol...

Hibbert is a buy low high reward type of candidate.. I'm not offering Smart, Young, Rondo, or Bradley... What we should offer is either Green, Bass, and maybe a few picks... Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

Tyler Zeller does not have"great length". He actually has the same length  as James Young....our shooting guard . 7' wingspan and 8'8'' standing reach. That does not mean he can't be good or decent....but he does not have great length.

Okay and Hibbert is slower, doesn't have a mid range, and other than defending, what else can he do? Every time I saw him take a contested fade away hook shot from 16-18 feet  in the playoffs I cringed..

Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

I hope your right but logic tells me your a homer.   Tyler has never played in an all star game and Roy has two.  As pointed out above he has height but average arms for his height not the great long ones that block shots and the like.   I do think most underrate him here but it is clear you overrate.

Ummm okay? I didn't overrated... I said he MAY... I think he is twice as faster than Hibbert, and the eye test clearly shows it... And the fault with Zeller is that while he may never be DPOY, he runs the floor well, has a nice mid range shot, and was never ever given the proper minutes to prove himself. Also Allstar doesn't mean JACK. Its a popularity contest. Why did Kobe win this year despite him being injured? Lets be honest.

Logic tells me your reading comprehension is pretty bad.

___

You all missed my point anyways. I'm not offering anyone of VALUE for Hibbert. And I think Ainge knows this too. He isn't going to offer any young prospects or picks, or even Rondo unless we're getting Bledsoe.

starters on the all star team are popularity contest, the bench is not. 

[Monkhouse]

Please stop offering our young prospects and picks for a center that has failed all expectations, and hasn't proven himself a winner.... Hibbert is overrated as a defender.. Hes great at contesting due to his size, but laterally is slow, and can't keep up with most power forwards. Unlike Gasol, who relies on his intelligence in guarding and making the right plays. Or Noah who relies on a mix of intelligence/hustle, nothing about Hibbert should put him anywhere near the level of defensive ability amongst Noah, Howard, or Gasol...

Hibbert is a buy low high reward type of candidate.. I'm not offering Smart, Young, Rondo, or Bradley... What we should offer is either Green, Bass, and maybe a few picks... Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

Tyler Zeller does not have"great length". He actually has the same length  as James Young....our shooting guard . 7' wingspan and 8'8'' standing reach. That does not mean he can't be good or decent....but he does not have great length.

Okay and Hibbert is slower, doesn't have a mid range, and other than defending, what else can he do? Every time I saw him take a contested fade away hook shot from 16-18 feet  in the playoffs I cringed..

Hell, even Tyler Zeller may prove to be a sleeper candidate. Very underrated, has great length, and is twice as faster than Hibbert.

I hope your right but logic tells me your a homer.   Tyler has never played in an all star game and Roy has two.  As pointed out above he has height but average arms for his height not the great long ones that block shots and the like.   I do think most underrate him here but it is clear you overrate.

Ummm okay? I didn't overrated... I said he MAY... I think he is twice as faster than Hibbert, and the eye test clearly shows it... And the fault with Zeller is that while he may never be DPOY, he runs the floor well, has a nice mid range shot, and was never ever given the proper minutes to prove himself. Also Allstar doesn't mean JACK. Its a popularity contest. Why did Kobe win this year despite him being injured? Lets be honest.

Logic tells me your reading comprehension is pretty bad.

___

You all missed my point anyways. I'm not offering anyone of VALUE for Hibbert. And I think Ainge knows this too. He isn't going to offer any young prospects or picks, or even Rondo unless we're getting Bledsoe.

starters on the all star team are popularity contest, the bench is not.

Well let me just say Hibbert didn't play like an Allstar the rest of the season and in the playoffs where it counted.

My point is Hibbert may need a change of a scenery, but usually when that occurs, we shouldn't break the bank for him.

Plus he doesn't fit the role of a Rajon Rondo/motion offense, because Hibbert isn't a good passer.

[Fafnir]

I think Hibbert would do very well alongside a player like Rondo. He needs to be spoon fed good touches in the paint, very on target passes or he gets off his spot quickly or gets out of rhythm.

That said I'm not very interested in him overall.