Author Topic: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic  (Read 11716 times)

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Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2014, 02:52:32 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Two things

First I agree about Hibbert, he's still a very good center in this league. One bad playoff run doesn't mean a bad player. He seriously needs to learn how to rebound though.

Second, this trade is bunk. The money is so far off it's ridiculous and in this case it would likely take a 3rd team because the Suns have so many small $ contracts. The highest contract they team has is Dragic at $7.5M. The salaries are still over $10.5M apart. Something like a sign and trade of Bledsoe would make more sense. Giving Bledsoe a max deal at $15M and trading him to the Pacers for Hibbert would actually be good return for PHX on a guy who is disgruntled. All things being equal you never trade big for little but in this case it might work out. Indiana needs a rebuilding year and PHX has too many point guards.

The Suns have the cap room to absorb the extra money. This also would allow the Pacers full use of the medical exception, which they can't currently use (don't want to use) because they're too close to the luxury tax mark.

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2014, 02:59:32 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Two things

First I agree about Hibbert, he's still a very good center in this league. One bad playoff run doesn't mean a bad player. He seriously needs to learn how to rebound though.

Second, this trade is bunk. The money is so far off it's ridiculous and in this case it would likely take a 3rd team because the Suns have so many small $ contracts. The highest contract they team has is Dragic at $7.5M. The salaries are still over $10.5M apart. Something like a sign and trade of Bledsoe would make more sense. Giving Bledsoe a max deal at $15M and trading him to the Pacers for Hibbert would actually be good return for PHX on a guy who is disgruntled. All things being equal you never trade big for little but in this case it might work out. Indiana needs a rebuilding year and PHX has too many point guards.

The Suns have the cap room to absorb the extra money. This also would allow the Pacers full use of the medical exception, which they can't currently use (don't want to use) because they're too close to the luxury tax mark.

How much is that medical exception for? I mean, is it possible for them to trade Hibbert and Copeland let's say for Dragic, and then use the medical exception to sign Monroe?

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2014, 03:02:35 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Two things

First I agree about Hibbert, he's still a very good center in this league. One bad playoff run doesn't mean a bad player. He seriously needs to learn how to rebound though.

Second, this trade is bunk. The money is so far off it's ridiculous and in this case it would likely take a 3rd team because the Suns have so many small $ contracts. The highest contract they team has is Dragic at $7.5M. The salaries are still over $10.5M apart. Something like a sign and trade of Bledsoe would make more sense. Giving Bledsoe a max deal at $15M and trading him to the Pacers for Hibbert would actually be good return for PHX on a guy who is disgruntled. All things being equal you never trade big for little but in this case it might work out. Indiana needs a rebuilding year and PHX has too many point guards.

The Suns have the cap room to absorb the extra money. This also would allow the Pacers full use of the medical exception, which they can't currently use (don't want to use) because they're too close to the luxury tax mark.

How much is that medical exception for? I mean, is it possible for them to trade Hibbert and Copeland let's say for Dragic, and then use the medical exception to sign Monroe?

No. It's roughly the same as the MLE.

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 03:03:02 PM »

Offline makaveli

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The most I would offer for Hibbert is Bass, Green, and a pick.  If not I move on.
wooow, i'm not a big Jeff Green fan, but imho, he still has a HUGE upside, and if he gets any consistency, he would be a borderline all star.
The trade you suggested, definitely favors the Pacers :)
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Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2014, 03:10:46 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I wouldn't be so dismissive about this deal not being true. The quote was supposedly from Dragic himself. Additionally, there were reports about this just last month:

Quote
Marc Stein        ? @ESPNSteinLine
Whispers are already out there, @ZachLowe_NBA, about Indy trying to pull in Boston to construct some sort of multi-team deal involving Rondo

Paul Coro        ? @paulcoro
Of course, Pacers are interested in an All-NBA PG upgrade. Of course, the Suns answer calls & listen. It doesn't mean a trade is happening.

Google translation of the website:
Quote
Beyond the puddles Dragic in the last days mentioned as a possible reinforcement of Indiana. The latter is the severe damage Paula George, which will be released (at least) the greater part of the season, started looking for players who would have been able to make up for the loss of the best player Pacers. Among other things, the Phoenix for Dragic offered Roy Hibbert and Chris Copeland. "And some money," said Dragic, who he's interest in Indiana, a transfer from probably nothing will: "According to my information, in Phoenix say they will not accept the offer."

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2014, 03:54:23 PM »

Offline nostar

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The most I would offer for Hibbert is Bass, Green, and a pick.  If not I move on.

I actually meant to include a Celtics scenario. 3 team with PHX and IND

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ngm63kg

BOS gets the LAL 2015 pick and Bledsoe on a $13.5M deal w/ 7% jumps.
IND gets Rondo and takes on Wallace
PHX gets Hibbert and Copeland

This is the sort of godfather deal I would take for Rondo. I 100% agree it's too much for his market value but that is what I want to trade away our only superstar. We move Wallace, get Bledsoe and net a likely lotto pick next year. That is good value for Rondo and probably the most we'll get for him. I would take on Hibbert but he isn't enough value for Rondo alone and Indiana's pick will likely be better than the Lakers.
 

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2014, 03:56:25 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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The most I would offer for Hibbert is Bass, Green, and a pick.  If not I move on.
wooow, i'm not a big Jeff Green fan, but imho, he still has a HUGE upside, and if he gets any consistency, he would be a borderline all star.
The trade you suggested, definitely favors the Pacers :)

I would do the trade.....Green is a good player...but not really a good player for the rebuilding Celtics needs.......I would risk Hibbert making a comeback .   We know Green is never going to change ....maybe Hibbert would ... ???

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2014, 03:59:40 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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The most I would offer for Hibbert is Bass, Green, and a pick.  If not I move on.

I actually meant to include a Celtics scenario. 3 team with PHX and IND

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ngm63kg

BOS gets the LAL 2015 pick and Bledsoe on a $13.5M deal w/ 7% jumps.
IND gets Rondo and takes on Wallace
PHX gets Hibbert and Copeland

This is the sort of godfather deal I would take for Rondo. I 100% agree it's too much for his market value but that is what I want to trade away our only superstar. We move Wallace, get Bledsoe and net a likely lotto pick next year. That is good value for Rondo and probably the most we'll get for him. I would take on Hibbert but he isn't enough value for Rondo alone and Indiana's pick will likely be better than the Lakers.

Why do the Suns and Pacers need to include the C's? The Pacers would be taking on Rondo (who would likely bolt at the end of the year) and Wallace's awful contract, when they could simply get Bledsoe under a 4 year deal, LAL 1st rd pick, and NOT have to take on Wallace.

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2014, 04:04:16 PM »

Offline crownontherocks

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The Pacers have reportedly contacted the Pistons about restricted free agent Greg Monroe.

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Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2014, 04:25:45 PM »

Offline mgent

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Pretty amazing Hibbert’s value has depreciated so much. He's still a team changing defender.
Yeah, like how his pick and roll defense changed his team from 1st in the East to ECF losers.  He's a good post defender, but his speed killed the Pacers in that series.  Every time Miami called a screen and Hibbert showed on the ball-handler, it was a 5 on 4 with Hibbert sprinting to catch up.  It probably got them 50 open corner 3s with nobody even running out to contest, as well as plenty of LeBron posters on David West.

After how Hibbert played in the playoffs, he's 100% untradable given the value that IND would need/want in return.
Indiana were the number one ranked pick and roll defense in the league. The basis of their pick and roll defense is for the center to neither hedge hard, like Miami, nor drop too deep, San Antonio style. In 2013, Miami played more of Haslem than Lewis or Battier, so Hibbert's lack of mobility wasn't as big a issue. Spoelstra changed his offensive scheme to increase his spacing i.e. Lewis started, Vogel didn't change his defense to increase his rotation speed. Indiana don't ever go small and when Miami's shooters are hitting 3s, you can't win unless you speed up. There's a reason why the Spurs don't play Duncan and Splitter against Miami, they get lit up.

Not sure why you're pinning this on Hibbert. He was asked to operate in a way outside his comfort zone.
What exactly am I pinning on Hibbert, other than a very bad postseason?  He had half as many points and rebounds as he did the year before in the same number of games.  Guarding Chris Bosh and Andersen should not be outside of a Center's comfort zone, especially not for one earning the max.

Also, are you sure the Pacer's pick and roll success had everything to do with their Center and nothing to do with their size, athleticism, and physicality on the perimeter between Hill, Stephenson, and George (3 of the best defender)?  Plus West, who is a great pick and roll defender, and CJ Watson as their 3rd guard who is also great.

I did not watch all the Pacer games, but I watched all of the ECF, and Hibbert was definitely hedging pretty hard.  Maybe that was only their strategy because they were scared of LeBron getting hot.  The idea is to only hedge far enough that you don't get lost on the play, which Hibbert let happen over and over, causing rotations to scramble and Miami's passing to get them whatever shot they wanted.  Splitter was also hedging in the Finals, the difference was he's much better at recovering, and having Duncan cover for you on the block means a lot more than West/Scola.
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Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2014, 04:48:23 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Bos sends: Smart , Bogans , Anthony , Zellar , 2015 pick
Ind sends: Hibbert, Watson

I might include KO, if we keep the pick and zellar .

PG: Rondo       /  Watson
SG: Bradley     / Turner
SF: Green       / Wallace
PF: Sully         / Bass
 C: Hibbert     / KO or Zellar

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2014, 05:06:39 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Bos sends: Smart , Bogans , Anthony , Zellar , 2015 pick
Ind sends: Hibbert, Watson

I might include KO, if we keep the pick and zellar .

PG: Rondo       /  Watson
SG: Bradley     / Turner
SF: Green       / Wallace
PF: Sully         / Bass
 C: Hibbert     / KO or Zellar

I don't think the Pacers are interested in our rookies or draft picks. They are not looking to rebuild, they are looking to compete.

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2014, 05:14:13 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Bos sends: Smart , Bogans , Anthony , Zellar , 2015 pick
Ind sends: Hibbert, Watson

I might include KO, if we keep the pick and zellar .

PG: Rondo       /  Watson
SG: Bradley     / Turner
SF: Green       / Wallace
PF: Sully         / Bass
 C: Hibbert     / KO or Zellar

I don't think the Pacers are interested in our rookies or draft picks. They are not looking to rebuild, they are looking to compete.

How are they supposed to compete without George? They get 2 young players with good upside (Smart and KO) , and they drop into the lottery for a year and get a good pick to add to George returning in 2015-16.

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2014, 05:17:12 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Bos sends: Smart , Bogans , Anthony , Zellar , 2015 pick
Ind sends: Hibbert, Watson

I might include KO, if we keep the pick and zellar .

PG: Rondo       /  Watson
SG: Bradley     / Turner
SF: Green       / Wallace
PF: Sully         / Bass
 C: Hibbert     / KO or Zellar

I don't think the Pacers are interested in our rookies or draft picks. They are not looking to rebuild, they are looking to compete.

How are they supposed to compete without George? They get 2 young players with good upside (Smart and KO) , and they drop into the lottery for a year and get a good pick to add to George returning in 2015-16.

Repeated reports state they are looking for an all-star level point guard, not prospects and picks. And they need to get one without paying the luxury tax. They need the income from playoff tickets. Some franchises need to focus more on the bottom line of profits instead of building a legit contender.

Re: Pacers reportedly offered Hibbert and Copeland for Dragic
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2014, 05:35:46 PM »

Offline Dchuck

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Why do people keep talking about getting Hibbert?  He sux!