I 'get' that the idea here is to trade from a position of perceived surplus (point guard, because we just drafted Smart, so in some folks' eyes that makes Rondo "expendable").
But why are you doing so to add to another position of perceived surplus (Power Forward)?
'Not crazy about this deal as proposed.
And given that OKC seems committed to Westbrook as PG (and he's a poor 3PT shooter who would not be a great space maker next to Rondo), I doubt they would be crazy about it either.
I reject the notion that the trade Rondo/keep Rondo debate has everything to do with position. The Celtics are a rebuilding team; Rondo is approaching 30. The Celtics do not have a true no. 1 option on offense; Rondo thrives when surrounded by shooters/scorers/no. 1 options. Rondo appears to want a big payday and much of that raise would be in place of money that we could ideally use to pair Rondo with a no. 1 option like LaMarcus Aldridge. On top of all that, we just drafted a PG.
Discriminating against talent based on position is almost always a poor management tactic. If we can get Ibaka we should do it not because he can play center in addition to PF (and therefore decrease his value by playing out of position), but because he's a rare, versatile talent who makes any team good even if they already have Blake Griffin and Duncan (and we certainly don't have those guys).
The idea here is to pair Ibaka with J. Okafor, Towns or one of the center prospects in next year's draft. If it means trading Sully, Olynyk, or both, I'm all for it, as long as we get fair value. If it means keeping them, fine, as long as it's part of a plan that ends with us winning a championship.
The part you put in italics goes against your alleged principal. If it has nothing to do with position, then the fact that we drafted a PG is supposedly irrelevant.
Rondo will be 28 this coming year. Even if Danny gave him a full 5 year contract next summer, he would only be 33 years old in the final year. That's basically still in edge of the peak years for the modern NBA main rotation player (excluding lesser quality players who wash out much earlier). There were 27 players age 33+ last year who played at least 1000 minutes (most played MUCH more than that) and the vast majority posted at least 3 Win Shares last season. Names like Dirk, Duncan, David West, Manu, Dunleavy, Anderson, Pierce, Ray, Fisher, etc., etc. The list of age 30+ players in the league reads like a list of playoff rotation players from last year. In other words, Rondo's skills are likely to still be at a very high level even 5 years out.
So saying he is "approaching 30" is also probably pretty much irrelevant. Barring injury, Rondo isn't likely to suddenly fall off a cliff. It isn't something to be scared about.
The only point you've made then, that has any relevance here is the issue of contracts. Retaining Rondo past this coming year will cost money. But that's a marginal difference cost. Ibaka will cost 12M. Rondo will cost, what? 16-17M? So, the difference amounts to a mid-level contract. Except you have to also look at the marginal value upgrade at each position. Is Ibaka that much of a marginal gain over what you could expect out of (the much cheaper) Olynyk and/or Sullinger? How much of a drop-off will you get going from Rondo to Smart as your starter until Smart eventually has the necessary experience to realize his potential?
Your first two sentences are completely and utterly wrong. You said the only reason people wanted to trade Rondo was because we drafted Smart. I only said that there were far more reasons, though I never denied that one of them had to do with Smart.
Saying that Rondo is "approaching 30" is hardly irrelevant. In fact it's very relevant considering that the Celtics are
at least two years away from contending even if we keep Rondo (some would argue that retaining Rondo hinders our ability to improve given his age, contract status and uncertain future regarding his knee). That's extremely important for a management and ownership group that openly desires to create a long (7-10 year) contention window (a la Spurs/OKC) rather than a 3-5 year contention window (a la KG Celts/LBJ Heat). If we keep Rondo, the latter is far more likely even if much of the retool plan went accordingly (and we signed, say, the 30 year old Marc Gasol next year).
Getting Ibaka would likely hide the weaknesses of Sully/Olynyk and pump up their trade value, allowing us to use one or both of them to secure a high pick next year and trade for Jahlil Okafor or Myles Turner. What I've proposed is part of a larger plan that I touched on in the OP, which is establishing a dominant frontcourt to go along with Smart, Bradley, Young and future picks. Ibaka alone is not enough of an upgrade at PF to push us in contention next year. But that isn't the point and I know from reading this forum that you're smart enough to recognize that. Ibaka is a huge step in building our frontcourt of the future, and such a frontcourt -- Ibaka/Okafor, Ibaka/Turner, etc. -- is vastly better than Sully/Zeller, Olynyk/Zeller, Sully/Olynyk and even Sully/Ibaka or Ibaka/Olynyk.
The same goes for your point about Smart's development. Never once did I say this trade would make us an immediate contender. In the time it will take Smart to develop, our contending squad of the future will still be taking form.
And again, your point about the contracts of Rondo and Ibaka is entirely irrelevant. What I was saying is that if we were to keep Rondo it would indicate a win-now stance taken by management. Let's say this year was Rondo's contract year and we had $20m in cap space accounting for Rondo's roughly $12m cap hold. If Rondo asked for $17m we would be down to $15m in space (going from contending for Melo to contending for Chandler Parsons). That difference in a vacuum may only be a mid-level contract but in reality it's the difference between being a solid playoff team and a championship contender. If we were to trade Rondo for Ibaka, it doesn't matter that he makes the same amount of money currently because a) he's locked up for multiple years and b) we likely wouldn't be trying to build a contender through the 2015 FA class in such circumstances.
Topic: Would Anyone Swap Rondo for Serge Ibaka Straight-Up? (Locked) (Read 26765 times)