Dennis Rodman / Wilt nonsense
Can we just return to the topic of Rondo for Ibaka?
Personally I highly doubt OKC does it because Westbrook is their PG for the future.
Again, I don't mean to seem self-important, but I really believe in the point I made below. I think it's incredibly relevant to this thread because it means Rondo/Westbrook could coexist (well, maybe if the Thunder regained their senses and replaced Scott Brooks with a better coach).
A big part of the attraction is Ibaka's younger age, but it should be realized that Rondo has by far the more impressive resume, so money matters here a lot.
Also still trying to get over the last time we got what we thought was a pretty good forward from the Thunder and just ended up with a cancer.
NBA players are increasingly paid by expectation of future performance, rather than receiving contracts based on past results, unless they're at that Carmelo/Kobe level.
For the record, I also don't think that Westbrook should be moved to the 2 simply because he shoots often. That seems like an arbitrary distinction.
Ball-dominant PGs do not maximize the team's talent when paired with a scorer like Durant. For Westbrook to maintain his style of play and continue playing PG he'd have to be the alpha dog (a la Allen Iverson). Getting the ball out of his hands and into the hands of a distributor could possibly eliminate many of Westbrook's wild shots (making the offense more efficient) and create more opportunities for Durant.
You act like that isn't a byproduct of Scott Brooks' offense. Remember when Westbrook went out back in January, and Durant was given the keys to the kingdom? Do you know how many more shots Durant took when Westbrook was sidelined, and couldn't "take away" shots and opportunities for KD? I'll give you this one: he averaged a massive one-and-a-half more shots per game, going from 18.7 to 21.2 (source: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-was-russell-westbrook-taking-away-shots-from-kevin-durant/article/3926876 )
Swapping players in and out while keeping the same coach and the same offensive schemes results in a change that is fairly immaterial -- something that people persist in overlooking when they talk about the Thunder's two best players.
I would make the trade instantly and OKC wouldn't make the trade in a million years. Ibaka is one of the best defensive bigs in the league and Westbrook is a top 2 point guard.
I think a healthy Rose + CP3 are better but now we're nitpicking. That's not the point (as I'm not suggesting they give up Westbrook). It's not unconventional to suggest that Westbrook may be better suited as an SG, especially after Phoenix's success running two-PG and three-guard lineups last year.
Your point about OKC's willingness to do the deal is valid. What about Rondo + a BKN pick for Ibaka? Would Boston still do it? Would OKC be more inclined to accept?
There's a reason teams don't typically run two point guard lineups with pass-first players like Rondo, though.
You say "pass-first" as if it means Rondo can't score. I merely used the term to highlight Rondo's game being a fit with Westbrook and Durant. When healthy and surrounded by shooters he capitalizes on open lanes as well as any PG. In 2012 Rondo shot 46% of his shots within three feet. He shot 58% on such shots. Derrick Rose's most efficient year within 3 feet was 61% (and in that year, he only shot 29% of his shots that close to the basket). And can we get BBallTim in here to explain that Rondo is at least an average mid-range shooter?
I didn't say anything about Rondo's shooting. Please don't attribute me with an argument I'm not making.
To explain my point: Most of the time, you see the a two point guard backcourt when a team like, say, the Suns, has a pair of point guards that look to score off the pick and roll, and use their pair of capable ball handlers to largely disregard the half court offense and instead prioritize quick fast break points the majority of the time. With Rondo as the primary ball handler, I want more of a Jodie Meeks type (on offense, anyway) at the 2 than a Russell Westbrook (who I am a big fan of, incidentally).
I do certainly think Scott Brooks plays a big role in the mismanagement of Westbrook and Durant, which is one of the reasons I think he should be fired. I don't think your point about Durant's regular season shot attempts with/without Westbrook tells the whole story though. After all, OKC's problem isn't in the regular season but rather in the playoffs, where ball movement ceases to exist (to the naked eye).
Let's look at 2011-12 (Westbrook healthy, playoff career high minutes at SG, trip to Finals), 2012-13 (no Westbrook) and 2013-14 (healthy Westbrook, MVP Durant, yet frustrating WCF loss). The reason I attempt to look at all three is because I think my perception of the Westbrook/Durant duo is being misinterpreted. I think Westbrook helps Durant as a player regardless of the position he plays. This is shown by the differential in the percentage of assisted baskets between Durant's 2012-13 playoff campaign and his 2013-14 campaign. Of his two-point FGM, 23.3% were assisted in 2012-13. In 2013-14, 53%. A similar differential can be seen in his percentage of three-pointers assisted. These stats suggest Westbrook takes pressure off Durant, creating more open/less contested shots for him. Westbrook's prowess as a scorer and an offensive threat are the same whether he plays PG or SG. When he's off the floor, Durant is forced into isolation.
My argument is more that Westbrook would help Durant even more so and be a more efficient player at SG. Now look at the 2011-12 playoffs. Westbrook played 33% of his minutes at SG, the highest percentage of his playoff career (and it's not even close; next highest percentage is 8% in 2013-14). During the playoff campaign, Westbrook shot career playoff highs in FG% and eFG% outside of his rookie year. Only his TS% was lower in 2011-12 than it was this year, which can be attributed to a far higher FT% this year (something that has little to do with him playing PG vs SG). Most importantly, Durant also found unique success with Westbrook playing more SG during the 2011-12 playoffs. His eFG% was 57%, 5.9% higher than his second career playoff high (which happened to be during this year's playoffs).
There's an argument to be made that the Thunder might just not be as good as they were in 2011-12 with Harden. Westbrook and Durant are, however, yet they played much less efficiently this year than they did in 2011-12. The argument I'm trying to make when I say "create more opportunities for Durant" has nothing to do with shot attempts. Durant already shoots about 20 times a game and there's only so many shots to go around. It has to do with efficiency and offensive fluidity, something that the Thunder's playoff offense lacks despite boasting three Olympians, one of which is the MVP.
On your second point -- two-PG lineups that prioritize P&R and the fast break -- how do you think Rondo, Westbrook and Durant would fare on the court if Durant played more of a Dirk role instead of a T-Mac role (meaning greater participation from him in the P&R instead of Rondo/Westbrook operating with McGary/Adams)? I'm asking you seriously because you seem to have impressive knowledge regarding offensive schemes and trends in the NBA.
Is Westbrook their PG of the future? Or is the team better when he plays SG?
I'm completely with you on Scott Brooks. To me, he's kind of like a poor man's Doc, only with those scifi glasses
What I mean by that is, if you've ever heard him in a huddle on tnt etc., he always says the same thing - get stops and push it. It's all about defense
Yeah, defense is important, but his half court offense is atrocious and, like Doc's, never changes. Westbrook and Durant don't play well together, and you're probably right about moving Russell to the 2, because Reggie Jackson was huge against Memphis, but naturally I'd like to have a larger sample size so that we can see if such a lineup would be better. It certainly can't be any worse than the one with Sefolosha, Perk, and Ibaka. Even when Serge is contributing offensively, OKC is always playing 3 on 5, maximum. They at least need another scorer in their starting five. Whether such a player, like Lamb or Jackson, comes from within or not I don't know, but they have to do something. Losing Harden was huge, offensively, even though he was their 6th man, and they've never been able to replace his contribution offensively, and not just in terms of points, because Harden is a better passer than Westbrook and Durant combined lol. Imagine if Rondo played with Durant instead of Westbrook. KD would average 40 lol, because, guess what, Rondo actually passes the ball
Topic: Would Anyone Swap Rondo for Serge Ibaka Straight-Up? (Locked) (Read 26764 times)