IDEA: George/Hill for Rondo/Green

[D.o.s.]

I don't think your last sentence is true, but I also think that the Pacers need to remain fairly competitive to stay comfortable with paying George what they're paying him.

[puskas54_10]

Just stop it!
People needs to understand that Paul George is arguably top 5, definitely top ten player. The whole NBA system's keystones the star players/go to guys. You either have one or not, you either had a chance to win ir not.

And that's the 15th George to celtics thread in a couple days. It's a waste of time.

LeBron
Durant
Chris Paul
Anthony Davis
Dwight Howard
Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
Stephan Curry
LaMarcus Aldridge
Joakim Noah
Al Horford - they say he is healthy
Derrick Rose - made team USA, Coach K says he is "elite"
DeMarcus Cousins - needs a better system, but is a sure thing 20/10 guy
Paul George
Kawhi Leonard
James Harden
Carmelo
Russell Westbrook
Duncan
Nowitzki
Rondo
Marc Gasol
Hibbert
Lillard
Klay Thompson


I would say he is the 15th best player in the NBA. I would put Rondo at 20th, Green at 40th-50th, and Hill at like 100-110.. I understand that whoever gets the best player wins the trade. ...but every player is better than George next season. Paul George will make TWENTY million dollars in 2018/2019 - the final year of his deal. ...isn't holding on to that deal a huge risk? Doesn't that impact whether or not Hibbert re-signs? George's money is dead money on the books until he can play.

Why wouldn't Indiana take this deal and try to win with Hibbert and West signed for the year? George is not going to play this year.

Shaun Livingston, ladies and gentlemen: http://stats.nba.com/playerCareer.html?PlayerID=2733 He literally lost 5 years to his injury. You have to assume that, with the lure of L.A. and the NY Knicks, Hibbert is ghost next year unless the Pacers can put together a winner he loves playing with.

Lebron and Durant clearly better players than George.
After them you could put George in the 3-7 range easily.
He's not just elite offensively, he's elite defensively too, can hit free throws. He's practically flawless. He needs to get stronger mentally though.

Your list consist some ridicolous choices ahead of George.
Come on man!
Stephan Curry
LaMarcus Aldridge
Joakim Noah
Al Horford - they say he is healthy
Derrick Rose - made team USA, Coach K says he is "elite"
DeMarcus Cousins

Neither of these guys are better thean George.

As for "Why wouldn't Indiana take this deal and try to win with Hibbert and West signed for the year? George is not going to play this year."

They will not win crap this year. There is just no way. And it sounds like you're just a celtic homer. I guess in your scenario George gets healthy next year and make the celtics a contender and Indiana goes mediocre.

[jaketwice]

Consider:

Paul George: 21.7PPG, 3.5APG, 6.8RPG
George Hill: 10.3PPG, 3.5APG, 3.7RPG

TOTALS: 32PPG, 7APG, 10.5RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Since each assist necessarily represents a made basket, you can shorten the equation to:

Rondo Green (28.5PPG plus 23PPG from assists: 51.8PPG) 10,9RPG
George/Hill (32PPG plus 14PPG from assists: 46PPG) 10.5 RPG.

...it actually seems pretty fair to me.

[puskas54_10]

I don't think your last sentence is true, but I also think that the Pacers need to remain fairly competitive to stay comfortable with paying George what they're paying him.

So you think fans don't understand they will be medicre because of a freak injury? Indiana fans are not dumb. They are know they have no chance next year, but they will be back in the mix in 2015-16.

[Granath]

Consider:

Paul George: 21.7PPG, 3.5APG, 6.8RPG
George Hill: 10.3PPG, 3.5APG, 3.7RPG

TOTALS: 32PPG, 7APG, 10.5RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Since each assist necessarily represents a made basket, you can shorten the equation to:

Rondo Green (28.5PPG plus 23PPG from assists: 51.8PPG) 10,9RPG
George/Hill (32PPG plus 14PPG from assists: 46PPG) 10.5 RPG.

...it actually seems pretty fair to me.

With all due respect, it seems reasonable to you because you're a homer with blinders on.

[puskas54_10]

Consider:

Paul George: 21.7PPG, 3.5APG, 6.8RPG
George Hill: 10.3PPG, 3.5APG, 3.7RPG

TOTALS: 32PPG, 7APG, 10.5RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Since each assist necessarily represents a made basket, you can shorten the equation to:

Rondo Green (28.5PPG plus 23PPG from assists: 51.8PPG) 10,9RPG
George/Hill (32PPG plus 14PPG from assists: 46PPG) 10.5 RPG.

...it actually seems pretty fair to me.

You clearly don't understand the NBA.

Here is my "fair" trade proposal:

Lebron Janes: 27.1PPG, 6.4APG, 6.9RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Yes, I know celtics lose 1.4 PPG, 4.9 APG and 4.0 RPG, but Cleveland could give up a first too to make it fair.

[jaketwice]

Consider:

Paul George: 21.7PPG, 3.5APG, 6.8RPG
George Hill: 10.3PPG, 3.5APG, 3.7RPG

TOTALS: 32PPG, 7APG, 10.5RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Since each assist necessarily represents a made basket, you can shorten the equation to:

Rondo Green (28.5PPG plus 23PPG from assists: 51.8PPG) 10,9RPG
George/Hill (32PPG plus 14PPG from assists: 46PPG) 10.5 RPG.

...it actually seems pretty fair to me.

With all due respect, it seems reasonable to you because you're a homer with blinders on.

Where was the due respect in that sentence? It sound like you just told me I wasn't objective.

Look: it's easy to take petty shots. It's harder to support what you're saying with facts. So far, all I've heard against this idea is (a) Paul George is a top player!!!!!!!; and (b) you, JakeTwice, are a "homer."

No one has addressed any of the other points I've made, which I think refute the "Paul George is tops!" argument, in any substance. There has been no substantive opposition to my arguments about Hibbert's impending free agency; there have been no arguments as to Rondo and Green's basically perfect fit for that team, all things considered. If you cannot refute my substantive arguments with your own substantive arguments, then I think a reader can only assume that you lack substantive arguments: your own bald assertions as to who is the "best" holding little weight. "Best" is a circumstance.

Otherwise, if all you have is insults, and personal attacks, I rest my case, and consider the argument won. After all, I haven't had to call anybody anything. Because I'm right.

[jaketwice]

Consider:

Paul George: 21.7PPG, 3.5APG, 6.8RPG
George Hill: 10.3PPG, 3.5APG, 3.7RPG

TOTALS: 32PPG, 7APG, 10.5RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Since each assist necessarily represents a made basket, you can shorten the equation to:

Rondo Green (28.5PPG plus 23PPG from assists: 51.8PPG) 10,9RPG
George/Hill (32PPG plus 14PPG from assists: 46PPG) 10.5 RPG.

...it actually seems pretty fair to me.

You are clearly don't understand the NBA.

Here is my "fair" trade proposal:

Lebron Janes: 27.1PPG, 6.4APG, 6.9RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Yes, I know celtics lose 1.4 PPG, 4.9 APG and 4.0 RPG, but Cleveland could give up a first too to make it fair.

Tell me more about myself and what I "are clearly" don't understand.

...this is a two player for two player trade. And it is proposed in time not out of time. As of now, PG is injured. The Pacers stand to lose Hibbert, and will probably go from the best team in the East, to somewhere south of an 8th seed. Indianapolis is not a destination city for most people, and cannot compete against the bigger markets. PG's injury happened at a terrible time for Indiana. They have a chance to stay competitive in an Eastern conference that - with LeBron's move to Cleveland, has really opened up. But they will lose that chance if they don't trade PG for players who can compete this year.

I include those statistics to point out that Rondo is an extremely good player, and to show that Jeff Green is better (for his position) than Hill is (for his position). While that doesn't exactly balance things - it does show that, given where the Pacers are this season, this is a trade idea that does indeed make sense.

[puskas54_10]

Consider:

Paul George: 21.7PPG, 3.5APG, 6.8RPG
George Hill: 10.3PPG, 3.5APG, 3.7RPG

TOTALS: 32PPG, 7APG, 10.5RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Since each assist necessarily represents a made basket, you can shorten the equation to:

Rondo Green (28.5PPG plus 23PPG from assists: 51.8PPG) 10,9RPG
George/Hill (32PPG plus 14PPG from assists: 46PPG) 10.5 RPG.

...it actually seems pretty fair to me.

With all due respect, it seems reasonable to you because you're a homer with blinders on.

Where was the due respect in that sentence? It sound like you just told me I wasn't objective.

Look: it's easy to take petty shots. It's harder to support what you're saying with facts. So far, all I've heard against this idea is (a) Paul George is a top player!!!!!!!; and (b) you, JakeTwice, are a "homer."

No one has addressed any of the other points I've made, which I think refute the "Paul George is tops!" argument, in any substance. There has been no substantive opposition to my arguments about Hibbert's impending free agency; there have been no arguments as to Rondo and Green's basically perfect fit for that team, all things considered. If you cannot refute my substantive arguments with your own substantive arguments, then I think a reader can only assume that you lack substantive arguments.: your own bald assertions as to who is the "best" holding little weight. "Best" is a circumstance.

Otherwise, if all you have is insults, and personal attacks, I rest my case, and consider the argument won. After all, I haven't had to call anybody anything. Because I'm right.

Are you Skip Bayless?

[puskas54_10]

Consider:

Paul George: 21.7PPG, 3.5APG, 6.8RPG
George Hill: 10.3PPG, 3.5APG, 3.7RPG

TOTALS: 32PPG, 7APG, 10.5RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Since each assist necessarily represents a made basket, you can shorten the equation to:

Rondo Green (28.5PPG plus 23PPG from assists: 51.8PPG) 10,9RPG
George/Hill (32PPG plus 14PPG from assists: 46PPG) 10.5 RPG.

...it actually seems pretty fair to me.

You are clearly don't understand the NBA.

Here is my "fair" trade proposal:

Lebron Janes: 27.1PPG, 6.4APG, 6.9RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Yes, I know celtics lose 1.4 PPG, 4.9 APG and 4.0 RPG, but Cleveland could give up a first too to make it fair.

Tell me more about myself and what I "are clearly" don't understand.

...this is a two player for two player trade. And it is proposed in time not out of time. As of now, PG is injured. The Pacers stand to lose Hibbert, and will probably go from the best team in the East, to somewhere south of an 8th seed. Indianapolis is not a destination city for most people, and cannot compete against the bigger markets. PG's injury happened at a terrible time for Indiana. They have a chance to stay competitive in an Eastern conference that - with LeBron's move to Cleveland, has really opened up. But they will lose that chance if they don't trade PG for players who can compete this year.

I include those statistics to point out that Rondo is an extremely good player, and to show that Jeff Green is better (for his position) than Hill is (for his position). While that doesn't exactly balance things - it does show that, given where the Pacers are this season, this is a trade idea that does indeed make sense.

Enough is enough. You are ignoring my "perfect and fair" trade proposal, because it's not 2 players for 2 players. Actually it's 2 for 2. Lebron + first round draft, who will be a player for Rondo and Green. I know you're ignoring it because it shows how weak your argument is.
It sounds like you just want to help poor Indiana, but in reality you're just destroying the pacers franchise in the long run, while they will win crap with your trade next year. Hibbert's value is low. If Indy wil lose him in the future they will not lose any sleep over it. Hibbert could be on the Perkins career arc.

[Granath]

Consider:

Paul George: 21.7PPG, 3.5APG, 6.8RPG
George Hill: 10.3PPG, 3.5APG, 3.7RPG

TOTALS: 32PPG, 7APG, 10.5RPG

Rondo: 11.7PPG, 9.8APG, 5.3RPG
Green: 16.9PPG, 1.7APG, 4.6RPG.

TOTALS: 28.5PPG, 11.5APG, 10.9RPG

Since each assist necessarily represents a made basket, you can shorten the equation to:

Rondo Green (28.5PPG plus 23PPG from assists: 51.8PPG) 10,9RPG
George/Hill (32PPG plus 14PPG from assists: 46PPG) 10.5 RPG.

...it actually seems pretty fair to me.

With all due respect, it seems reasonable to you because you're a homer with blinders on.

Where was the due respect in that sentence? It sound like you just told me I wasn't objective.

Look: it's easy to take petty shots. It's harder to support what you're saying with facts. So far, all I've heard against this idea is (a) Paul George is a top player!!!!!!!; and (b) you, JakeTwice, are a "homer."

No one has addressed any of the other points I've made, which I think refute the "Paul George is tops!" argument, in any substance. There has been no substantive opposition to my arguments about Hibbert's impending free agency; there have been no arguments as to Rondo and Green's basically perfect fit for that team, all things considered. If you cannot refute my substantive arguments with your own substantive arguments, then I think a reader can only assume that you lack substantive arguments: your own bald assertions as to who is the "best" holding little weight. "Best" is a circumstance.

Otherwise, if all you have is insults, and personal attacks, I rest my case, and consider the argument won. After all, I haven't had to call anybody anything. Because I'm right.

Please consider that you "won" the argument even as everyone else on a CELTICS forum thinks you're an unrealistic homer. That should tell you something.

Look at the PER statistics. 20.1 + 13.4 > 15.1 + 13.1. That's a significant difference in production. Can you guess who is who?

Not to mention that George - the biggest chip in this deal - is 4 years younger than Rondo or Green. That's a massive difference. George and Hill are better defensively than Green and Rondo without question. This doesn't even take into account the contract situations, where Rondo is expiring while George is locked up for 5 more years while Green costs more than Hill.

In short, the Celtics get significantly better, younger players in that deal with better contracts all for the price of George sitting out for a year with an injury that is easier to recover from than Rondo's torn ACL (which he has NOT demonstrated to be the player he once was).

Yeah, sure....you "won".  LOL

By the way, being a homer isn't necessarily bad. It's just when that is combined with stubborn unrealism that it makes someone look foolish.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Paul George is a 24 year old who averaged 20 points a game and finished first in defensive win shares.  He's got amazing size and speed.  He is probably the 5th best player in the league right now, we're not getting him.

[D.o.s.]

I don't think your last sentence is true, but I also think that the Pacers need to remain fairly competitive to stay comfortable with paying George what they're paying him.

So you think fans don't understand they will be medicre because of a freak injury? Indiana fans are not dumb. They are know they have no chance next year, but they will be back in the mix in 2015-16.

I'm saying that the Pacers don't have the luxury of bottoming out because their ownership doesn't seem to want to foot the bill for the team without being able to make up as much as they can at the gate and in merch.

As it stands now, with their team being significantly worse than last year, Indiana fans are less likely to show up when the Pacers play a team that isn't a mega draw on the road... a team like, say, the Celtics. That hurts the Pacers right in the pocketbook.

[hpantazo]

I think this is a very reasonable trade, and in fact I had proposed the exact same deal in another thread a couple of days ago. Some of you guys are totally overvaluing pre-injury George, and are not being realistic at the issues the Pacers face here. George will not be back and playing at his previous level in a year. It will realistically take him at least 2 years to return to his pre-injury form. The Pacers basically are out of contention for the next two seasons and have a large question mark about the season after that, as Hibbert and West will likely be gone by then , and there is no guarantee hat George returns to his pre-injury form.

If they trade for a contract year Rondo now two seasons past his acl surgery, and Green  they can remain competitive with Rondo, Hibbert, Green, and West, and can add to that group. The celtics are young and in deep rebuild, they can afford to wait two plus years for George to recover. Would either team do this? Who knows, but it's a reasonable proposition.

[Endless Paradise]

The Pacers are not going to trade away their 24-year-old franchise cornerstone just because he broke his leg.