IDEA: George/Hill for Rondo/Green

[jaketwice]

This idea was posted in the Pacers thread I started the other day:

How about trying to pull off a Rondo for Paul George deal? Bird likes Rondo, and Rondo and Hibbert could work well together. If the Pacers don't want to wait 1-2 seasons for George to hopefully return to form, they may be willing to do it.

We could also add a Green for Hill swap in the deal. For us, waiting for George to return to his old self in two years fits with our rebuild.

I think it is a really good idea, and it deserves its own thread. The Pacers are in their window. And if you think about it, Green is a better player than Hill, and George is a better player than Rondo. It is actually a pretty fair trade, straight up.

While it does seem like the Celtics are taking the bigger risk - don't forget that Rondo's contract is up after next season. The Pacers lose a starting small forward, and get one back. While Green may be a loss for us, we can try sliding Young over to SF, or try playing Turner. And there's always Gerald Wallace.

However, if George comes back healthy, then we would have a nucleus of young players, and potentially a top 15 player in George, as well as several good draft picks next year. At least we would be going in a direction.

(Trade WORKS on trade checker: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l8lhz2j)

[knuckleballer]

It's a great idea for the Celtics, but I don't think there is any way the Pacers would consider it.  George is just 24 and an elite talent.  You just can't trade a player like that away even if he ends up missing two seasons.

[Hawkeye199]

paul george is a franchise player perhaps a top 5 player. He also is not a good teammate. their have been locker room problems. also he just broke his leg and we have no idea how could he will be coming back. It will take probably two years to be in nba form. It is a risk that could be worth it. I think Ainge and stevens are looking more into character then they used to. Their is just a lot of risk. Thats for us

Indiana  won't want to do it because rondo is on a one year deal and wants max money. Jeff green is extremely inconsistent. He is great for a competitive team but who knows what roy hibbert is. Can a team of rondo,hibbert and jeff green compete in the east against lebron/Love/Irving or chicago of Rose/Noah/gasol?

[jambr380]

I also talked about a similar trade in another thread and you came to my defense when the vultures pounced on me. TP.

While I don't see Indy pouncing on this deal - if they did want to continue to compete, it does make sense for them, especially if we throw in a decent first and/or KO.

[gpap]

I don't think the Pacers do this.

George is their best player and it would probably make them look bad if they dealt away their star player just a few days after he broke his leg.

Imagine how that would get over (lol)

Not to mention, like others have stated, he might never be the same again which would mean we would be getting back nothing more than damaged goods.

If you're going to go the risky route of acquiring star players coming back from injuries, call up Chicago and see if they would do Rondo/Green for Rose/Gibson.

[Rakulp]

Has there ever been a team that has lost a player like this that has ever turned around and then traded the player...especially a GOOD player?  I can't think of one off the top of my head, which makes me believe that there would be no chance of this deal going through.

Think of the perception issue you would have here...Guy gets wounded playing for the US and the team immediately trades him as if he were trash.  Not quite the legacy that Larry has or would want to continue to have.  That would be akin to a National Guard man who goes to war, gets injured, and his company fires him.

Rak

[Geo123]

There's just no way the Pacers would do that...

[jaketwice]

So, to briefly summarize some arguments made (and responded to) in other threads:

(a). ARGUMENT:  George is a top 5 player, there is no way the Pacers do this!

RESPONSE:
(1). Hibbert is on a one year deal.
(2). West is 33, and will be 34 next year.
(3). The Pacers lost Stephenson, and replaced him with Rodney Stuckey.
(4). The Pacers do not have a very deep bench.
(5). Although the Pacers were a top 5 defensive team last year, they had the second worst offense in the league, after Philly.
(6). So even if George comes back next year, the Pacers have no guarantee Hibbert sticks around (particularly because several teams, including the Knicks, Lakers and Celtics will all be flush with cap room, and looking to sign him). What is that team then? An aging West, Paul George in uncertain form, and George Hill. Does Paul George alone guarantee an 8th seed? Answer: no. West and George Hill are role players in 2015. Indiana is not a "destination" city, and is unlikely to sign a lot of free agents who have other choices. They will have to be good to get free agents.
(7). If they don't have George, they don't compete this year:
      (a) Atlanta is better
      (b) Washington is better
      (c) Cleveland is better
      (d) Charlotte is better
That eighth seed they are gunning for right now is not a guarantee, $68M is a lot to spend to not even make the playoffs...

(b) ARGUMENT: Public Perception

RESPONSE: Fans are more educated about basketball now than ever before. The Pacers will not be a good team next year without George, and having lost Stephenson. That's just a fact. They were a one seed last year. Even if this trade went down during the season, there is really no argument with the sense it makes.

(c). ARGUMENT: George is a risk.

RESPONSE: Agreed. Huge risk. But - Rondo is a risk to move on in free agency. We have four or five point guards under contract. The Celtics are directionless, and do not appear to be close to contention - even in the next 2-3 years. Whether or not Rondo is here doesn't really change that. So, in fact, it does make sense to try to hit a home run and hope that George comes back healthy.

[jaketwice]

There's just no way the Pacers would do that...

Why not?

[puskas54_10]

Just stop it!
People needs to understand that Paul George is arguably top 5, definitely top ten player. The whole NBA system's keystones the star players/go to guys. You either have one or not, you either had a chance to win ir not.

And that's the 15th George to celtics thread in a couple days. It's a waste of time.

[Fred Roberts]

George Hill showed flashes back in San Antonio but he's not cutting it lately. Larry B would at least have to think this over.

He'd probably never do it bc of loyalty, but it is intriguing to consider.

Green is like a poor man's PG (but still starter quality), and Rondo is in a league above George Hill and his undesirable contract. Pacers could stay relevant, make the playoffs and unleash beast Rondo on anyone who dares oppose him in a playoff series.

[Geo123]

There's just no way the Pacers would do that...

Why not?

See answer from other poster below... 

"



Posted by: puskas54_10
« on: Today at 10:32:53 AM »
Insert Quote

 

Just stop it!
People needs to understand that Paul George is arguably top 5, definitely top ten player. The whole NBA system's keystones the star players/go to guys. You either have one or not, you either had a chance to win ir not."

You don't trade one year of Rondo and possibly one year of Green for that... 

[Monkhouse]

This idea was posted in the Pacers thread I started the other day:

How about trying to pull off a Rondo for Paul George deal? Bird likes Rondo, and Rondo and Hibbert could work well together. If the Pacers don't want to wait 1-2 seasons for George to hopefully return to form, they may be willing to do it.

We could also add a Green for Hill swap in the deal. For us, waiting for George to return to his old self in two years fits with our rebuild.

I think it is a really good idea, and it deserves its own thread. The Pacers are in their window. And if you think about it, Green is a better player than Hill, and George is a better player than Rondo. It is actually a pretty fair trade, straight up.

(Trade WORKS on trade checker: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l8lhz2j)

I disagree, and if Bird ever did this trade, that he should be fired... What Bird should be doing is trying to stockpile assets by blowing it up, and keeping PG/Hibbert. If you seriously think Rondo/Green is worth Paul George/George Hill, then I don't know what to tell you otherwise.

[jaketwice]

Just stop it!
People needs to understand that Paul George is arguably top 5, definitely top ten player. The whole NBA system's keystones the star players/go to guys. You either have one or not, you either had a chance to win ir not.

And that's the 15th George to celtics thread in a couple days. It's a waste of time.

LeBron
Durant
Chris Paul
Anthony Davis
Dwight Howard
Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
Stephan Curry
LaMarcus Aldridge
Joakim Noah
Al Horford - they say he is healthy
Derrick Rose - made team USA, Coach K says he is "elite"
DeMarcus Cousins - needs a better system, but is a sure thing 20/10 guy
Paul George
Kawhi Leonard
James Harden
Carmelo
Russell Westbrook
Duncan
Nowitzki
Rondo
Marc Gasol
Hibbert
Lillard
Klay Thompson


I would say he is the 15th best player in the NBA. I would put Rondo at 20th, Green at 40th-50th, and Hill at like 100-110.. I understand that whoever gets the best player wins the trade. ...but every player is better than George next season. Paul George will make TWENTY million dollars in 2018/2019 - the final year of his deal. ...isn't holding on to that deal a huge risk? Doesn't that impact whether or not Hibbert re-signs? George's money is dead money on the books until he can play.

Why wouldn't Indiana take this deal and try to win with Hibbert and West signed for the year? George is not going to play this year.

Shaun Livingston, ladies and gentlemen: http://stats.nba.com/playerCareer.html?PlayerID=2733 He literally lost 5 years to his injury. You have to assume that, with the lure of L.A. and the NY Knicks, Hibbert is ghost next year unless the Pacers can put together a winner he loves playing with.

[jaketwice]

This idea was posted in the Pacers thread I started the other day:

How about trying to pull off a Rondo for Paul George deal? Bird likes Rondo, and Rondo and Hibbert could work well together. If the Pacers don't want to wait 1-2 seasons for George to hopefully return to form, they may be willing to do it.

We could also add a Green for Hill swap in the deal. For us, waiting for George to return to his old self in two years fits with our rebuild.

I think it is a really good idea, and it deserves its own thread. The Pacers are in their window. And if you think about it, Green is a better player than Hill, and George is a better player than Rondo. It is actually a pretty fair trade, straight up.

(Trade WORKS on trade checker: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l8lhz2j)

I disagree, and if Bird ever did this trade, that he should be fired... What Bird should be doing is trying to stockpile assets by blowing it up, and keeping PG/Hibbert. If you seriously think Rondo/Green is worth Paul George/George Hill, then I don't know what to tell you otherwise.

No offense but I do not understand your post at all. Why on earth does Hibbert re-sign, when NYK and LAL can both offer him max deals next year in better markets with better players? Why does he want to sit through a re-build?

The reason I think Rondo/Green is worth George/George Hill is because Paul George is not going to play one game next season. The Pacers will lose Hibbert to free agency, West will be a year older, and they have such an incredibly weak bench, that - this season - they are simply going to be unable to replace PG's production. Zero chance. So they will be terrible in their second best player's (now their best player's) free agent year - a year, PS: when more than one big market team has cap space. AND - they do not even know what they will get when PG comes back: an elite, or elitish player? Or a contract albatross, polluting their cap into the next decade?

Rondo makes other players better, which will help with re-signing Hibbert, and is almost an order of magnitude better than George Hill. Green can play well, and is a great locker room guy. Everyone likes him. If Hibbert bolts, than the Pacers can transition back into a full re-build immediately, by not re-signing Rondo, and playing out 2015-2016 with West, Green, and the rest, and looking for a high pick.

Hanging on to George is, in my opinion, literally the absolute stupidest thing the Pacers could do.