Author Topic: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?  (Read 7421 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2014, 10:18:02 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
George is 24 and Hibbert is 27, so I don't see why they would blow it up. I could see them having interest in Green now that George will miss a season.  Hopefully, George will be back 100% next year.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2014, 10:23:35 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8826
  • Tommy Points: 289
I always assumed that it took 6-16 weeks to heal from a broken bone. If it is just a break that gives them a shot to get George back around November - January well before playoffs. If this is the case no need to blow it up. They only need a flexible SF to fill in.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2014, 10:38:41 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
I actually like the foundation of your idea. Problem is that Indy isn't giving you these guys because they'll try and compete one last year (upon P George's injury comeback) before West and Hibbert expire. Both West and Hibbert's contracts are player options at the end of this upcoming season, and there's basically zero chance they opt out. If they were expiring deals this would be an opportunity considering the Pacers have been supposedly shopping Hibbert- perhaps they still are so this may still work.
 
  The bad news for us is that the extra time on their contracts gives the Pacers leverage. For the Pacers the only way they entertain the idea would be asking for Sullinger or Olynyk to replace David West and multiple picks. This way they clear both Hibbert and West off the books for expirings and have an extra $27 million to play with when Paul George returns from injury.
 
I do think that a squad of:

Rondo
Bradley
Green
West
Hibbert

Smart
Turner
Olynk
Zeller
Vitor F
Wallace
Pressey

is probably a top 3 or 4 team in the East. It would be a pretty serious defensive team too- at least the starting line up would be.

To get Hibbert+basic fillers you'd have to send at least:

2015 Boston first round pick+
2016 Brooklyn pick +
James Young+
Bogans $5 million+
Thornton $8.5 million

This would be if they REALLY want to move Hibbert. I mean if they really demanded it they'd have the right to ask for Marcus Smart too instead of 2 of those picks.

To get West too? I think you need to give them Sullinger or Olynyk as the minimum and then match salary with Bass+Anthony. I'd prefer to give them Olynyk while his hype is high and let Sullinger develop as the 6th man while he learns from his on court doppleganger David West.

So you'd look at a complete package of:

Sullinger (or Olynyk)
James Young+
2015 Boston first round pick+
2016 Brooklyn pick +
2015 Clippers pick+
Bogans $5 million+ (exp)
Thornton $8.5 million+ (exp)
Bass $7 million+(exp)
Anthony $3 million(exp)

for

Hibbert+
West+
fillers.

When you take out the expirings and fillers you're essentially getting Hibbert+West for Sullinger, Young and 3 first round picks. Hell you'd probably have to include another Brooklyn pick with some light protection for them to even pick up the phone.

In all honesty I think Danny pulls the trigger 100% of the time in such a scenario.
We'd be making a push for the playoffs and essentially trying to lure some free agents for the next two years with this core.
A wildcard would also be how interested they are in Evan Turner now that Lance Stephenson is gone AND George is out. They could put Thornton and Turner in as the starting SF/SG tandem and roll with:

Hill, Thornton, Turner, Sullinger, Mahinimi for one season and have Hibbert and West's $15 million+$12 million off the books a year earlier.

The fact is that even picking up the phone to ring the Pacers about a deal for Hibbert revolves around the Pacers legitimately wanting to move him out because Paul George+coach don't want him there, and regardless of how much they find him annoying, he's still one of the leagues elite rim protectors and a force on defense. If they think they can work with Hibbert then they aren't picking up the phone for anything less than the above offer PLUS Marcus Smart. Just the reality of the situation.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 11:02:14 AM by chambers »
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2014, 11:48:44 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58754
  • Tommy Points: -25628
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Acquiring West is a bit of a waste of his talent, as he's an older player who should be helping a contender.

I don't have any interest in paying close to that price for Hibbert, who has shown that he is a complete head case.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2014, 12:45:52 PM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12589
  • Tommy Points: 2158
Both West and Hibbert's contracts are player options at the end of this upcoming season, and there's basically zero chance they opt out.

I won't grant you this premise. How are you drawing this conclusion? Hibbert without doubt will opt out, he'll be 28 years old and entering into a market where a TON of teams have cap space, chances are he gets what he would be due in that final year multiplied by 5 years plus increases. West is a bit older so it's possible he opts in but I still doubt it, even if he takes a paycut he'll probably look for a 3-4 year deal for more guaranteed money overall.

Both will be unrestricted next offseason.
The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2014, 02:10:00 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
I would do this in a heartbeat.

Rondo, Bradley, Turner, West and Hibbert is a legit playoff team.

Unfortunately, I don't think Indiana blows up their team.

They'll just try to acquire another wing player to fill in for George (maybe they shouldn't have let Turner walk.)

I could however see something on a smaller scale working out for both Boston and Indy, like Green/Bass /Joel Anthony for Scola/Mahimi and a pick

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2014, 02:12:10 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
Acquiring West is a bit of a waste of his talent, as he's an older player who should be helping a contender.

I don't have any interest in paying close to that price for Hibbert, who has shown that he is a complete head case.

Couldn't disagree more. I think having West's veteran presence provides leadership to a very young Celtics team.

Also, maybe I am the only one, but I really dislike the sound of the Celts being labeled as a "non-contender."

This "rebuild" stuff isn't for me.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2014, 08:32:32 PM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Both West and Hibbert's contracts are player options at the end of this upcoming season, and there's basically zero chance they opt out.

I won't grant you this premise. How are you drawing this conclusion? Hibbert without doubt will opt out, he'll be 28 years old and entering into a market where a TON of teams have cap space, chances are he gets what he would be due in that final year multiplied by 5 years plus increases. West is a bit older so it's possible he opts in but I still doubt it, even if he takes a paycut he'll probably look for a 3-4 year deal for more guaranteed money overall.

Both will be unrestricted next offseason.

That's fair enough, there's definitely much more than 'zero' chance. I can't name any teams that would give Hibbert a 5 year extension for the max, but if he expects the max, the new NBA TV deal is structured in two years and just like Lebron, guys like Hibbert will want to take advantage of that at the time. He'll be 29 and in his prime, and probably be looking for that 5 year deal through age 34- he just makes more money long term that way. Depends if his agent convinces him to get the extra money while he can and isn't injured, or slightly  gamble and go for the bigger paycheck in 2 seasons time.
At age 35 next year I can't see West signing a deal for more than 2 years with anyone, and he's not getting 12 million from anyone else at age 35. I doubt he's getting more than the MLE and I especially doubt he's getting a 3-4 year deal at age 35.
Both arguments do have their merits though.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 07:56:31 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58754
  • Tommy Points: -25628
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Acquiring West is a bit of a waste of his talent, as he's an older player who should be helping a contender.

I don't have any interest in paying close to that price for Hibbert, who has shown that he is a complete head case.

Couldn't disagree more. I think having West's veteran presence provides leadership to a very young Celtics team.

Also, maybe I am the only one, but I really dislike the sound of the Celts being labeled as a "non-contender."

This "rebuild" stuff isn't for me.

I don't like the sound of the Celtics being a non-contender, but that's exactly what they are.

I just think it's a waste of assets to acquire a guy at the end of his prime who would have no interest in re-signing with the team.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2014, 08:15:07 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2935
  • Tommy Points: 349
Acquiring West is a bit of a waste of his talent, as he's an older player who should be helping a contender.

I don't have any interest in paying close to that price for Hibbert, who has shown that he is a complete head case.

Couldn't disagree more. I think having West's veteran presence provides leadership to a very young Celtics team.

Also, maybe I am the only one, but I really dislike the sound of the Celts being labeled as a "non-contender."

This "rebuild" stuff isn't for me.

I don't like the sound of the Celtics being a non-contender, but that's exactly what they are.

I just think it's a waste of assets to acquire a guy at the end of his prime who would have no interest in re-signing with the team.

David West would be our Wally Szczerbiak. Except instead of giving up Ricky Davis, we'd give up people who aren't cancers. And we'd still be bad.

Don't see a point in it, agree with Roy.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2014, 11:17:22 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Quote
I always assumed that it took 6-16 weeks to heal from a broken bone. If it is just a break that gives them a shot to get George back around November - January well before playoffs. If this is the case no need to blow it up. They only need a flexible SF to fill in.

What are you basing this on?    He is going to be out all year according to some reports.   You know what happens when you assume?  I don't think they blow it either but I think your way off on the prognosis.

Quote
Gladstone, who is not treating George, said it usually takes athletes nine to 12 months to completely recover from this type of injury. If that timetable holds up, the earliest possible return for George would be May, when the NBA playoffs are in full swing.

Quote
"Doctors said give him at least three months before he can start putting weight on it," George Sr. told the Star. "Then he said from there it's up to him how far he can go with it. We'll have to play it by ear. He's hurting. He still can't believe that this has happened."

http://espn.go.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/11301065/indiana-pacers-more-optimistic-paul-george-return-following-surgery

Are you the same guy who said he would be back in 4 month?

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2014, 12:50:39 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
I would do this in a heartbeat.

Rondo, Bradley, Turner, West and Hibbert is a legit playoff team.

Unfortunately, I don't think Indiana blows up their team.

They'll just try to acquire another wing player to fill in for George (maybe they shouldn't have let Turner walk.)

I could however see something on a smaller scale working out for both Boston and Indy, like Green/Bass /Joel Anthony for Scola/Mahimi and a pick

Has everyone forgotten about Solomon Hill?  There's a good chance that he's going to get plenty of playing time to develop this year.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 01:03:07 AM by Beat LA »

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2014, 01:13:57 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
Acquiring West is a bit of a waste of his talent, as he's an older player who should be helping a contender.

I don't have any interest in paying close to that price for Hibbert, who has shown that he is a complete head case.

West would have been great, 3 years ago, haha, so I agree with you there.  How is Hibbert a headcase, though?  Perhaps you and I have different definitions of what a headcase is.  To me, that term is for guys like Artest, Rodman, and, to a lesser degree, Stephenson.  True, Hibbert was terrible, but I believe that that has to do with some off the court issues that were certainly not his fault.  Now, does that mean he's fragile, mentally?  No, I really don't think so.  If that was the case he wouldn't have been as dominant against the Hawks, Knicks, and Heat in 2013 and against Miami in that 2012 series.  Mental toughness isn't the issue, imo, but something else is, and it could be anything.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2014, 07:11:39 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Acquiring West is a bit of a waste of his talent, as he's an older player who should be helping a contender.

I don't have any interest in paying close to that price for Hibbert, who has shown that he is a complete head case.

Couldn't disagree more. I think having West's veteran presence provides leadership to a very young Celtics team.

Also, maybe I am the only one, but I really dislike the sound of the Celts being labeled as a "non-contender."

This "rebuild" stuff isn't for me.

I don't like the sound of the Celtics being a non-contender, but that's exactly what they are.

I just think it's a waste of assets to acquire a guy at the end of his prime who would have no interest in re-signing with the team.

David West would be our Wally Szczerbiak. Except instead of giving up Ricky Davis, we'd give up people who aren't cancers. And we'd still be bad.

Don't see a point in it, agree with Roy.

Using logic here, how is a team of Rondo,Bradley/smart, green, west, Hibbert with turner,Olynyk, zeller on the bench a bad team?

The aim is to achieve a core of rondo, Hibbert and smart and make the 2nd round of the playoffs- something we are ffffaaaar away from doing right now.
We're giving up late first round picks and one proven young player in sully. The rest are expirings. When the East is weak, it's a very good team- arguably better than the wizards.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Pacers Blow It Up/Dream Scenario.... Would you do it?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2014, 08:16:31 AM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
I would do this in a heartbeat.

Rondo, Bradley, Turner, West and Hibbert is a legit playoff team.

Unfortunately, I don't think Indiana blows up their team.

They'll just try to acquire another wing player to fill in for George (maybe they shouldn't have let Turner walk.)

I could however see something on a smaller scale working out for both Boston and Indy, like Green/Bass /Joel Anthony for Scola/Mahimi and a pick

Has everyone forgotten about Solomon Hill?  There's a good chance that he's going to get plenty of playing time to develop this year.

I don't even know who Solomon Hill is.