Author Topic: Laker Homerism at its height..  (Read 7982 times)

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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 06:33:17 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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You could make a case for Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Elgin, Mikan, and West. That's only six, but I'm not sure the concept is wrong. The Celtics really only have two who qualify off the top of my head: Bird and Russell.

I wonder, is Lakers' Wilt top-15 all-time?  He only played five years there, on the down slope of his career.  He still had a couple of great seasons, but I'm not sure if that constitutes all-time greatness.

There's an argument to be made against it, for sure. That said, he only played five seasons (and a half) for the Warriors, and only four for the 76ers. And he actually played more games as a Laker than as Sixer.

Which, actually, might go a long way towards explaining his relative anonymity among the legends of the game. Kind of like how Oscar Robertson played the bulk of his career for a franchise that no longer exists.
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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2014, 06:37:11 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Top fifteen un-LAKER

Tim Duncan, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Julius Erving. I am stuck, someone help me out.

I guess they weren't being too unreasonable when they dialed it down to 15. At 10 they were really unrealistic. They may have a better argument at 15.

Oscar Robertson, LeBron James (gag), Kevin Garnett, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Bernard King, Pete Maravich, Hondo/Cousy/Isiah Thomas ?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2014, 07:40:32 PM »

Offline Casperian

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Yeah, and IIRC, there are 14 Celtics on the NBA's official "Top 50", and only 9 Lakers.

So what?

Most casual observers criminally overlook (and consequently, underrate) some of the players who played with Russell and Bird. Sam Jones won 10 championships, too.

So, the real question is: by which criteria do we, the masses, measure "greatness"? Certainly not championships, if Elgin Baylor lands ahead of Jones. Consequently, which value does this award really hold, aside from bragging rights among fans?

Fans need stories, stories need protagonists, and they (the "heroes") are the only ones who can achieve the "greatness" label. They don't even have to win anything, they just need good stats, so people can't question their credibility. Stories are told by story-tellers (read: the media), and that's precisely where the Lakers have the real advantage over everyone else.
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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2014, 09:03:15 PM »

Offline celticmania

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Well a week ago someone on this board said Avery Bradley is better than Kobe.... anyways, you could argue there are 5 Lakers in the top 10 ever (Kobe, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Magic)

Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2014, 09:31:04 PM »

Offline Mazingerz

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Yeah, and IIRC, there are 14 Celtics on the NBA's official "Top 50", and only 9 Lakers.

So what?

Most casual observers criminally overlook (and consequently, underrate) some of the players who played with Russell and Bird. Sam Jones won 10 championships, too.

So, the real question is: by which criteria do we, the masses, measure "greatness"? Certainly not championships, if Elgin Baylor lands ahead of Jones. Consequently, which value does this award really hold, aside from bragging rights among fans?

Fans need stories, stories need protagonists, and they (the "heroes") are the only ones who can achieve the "greatness" label. They don't even have to win anything, they just need good stats, so people can't question their credibility. Stories are told by story-tellers (read: the media), and that's precisely where the Lakers have the real advantage over everyone else.

Dave Cowens is also frequently ignored/forgotten.
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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 06:58:15 AM »

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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 07:54:35 AM »

Offline DavorCroatiaFan

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Maybe they got better "star power", but we got a better team.
Imagine a 7 game series: (player must be at least 3 years on roster)
LAKERS:
Starting five: Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, James Worthy, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bench: Norm Nixon, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Michael Cooper, Jamaal Wilkes, Elgin Baylor, Paul Gasol, Bob McAdoo, George Mikan, Shaquille O'Neal

CELTICS:
Starting five: Nate Archibald, Ray Allen, Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, Bill Russell
Bench: Bob Cousy, Jo-Jo White, Dennis Johnson, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Paul Pierce, Kevin McHale, Dave Cowens, Bill Walton, Robert Parish

Lakers best position are center. Wilt, KAJ, Shaq...but they can't play together because spacing would be terrible with Magic and Worthy being poor outside shooters and Kobe being so-so and very selfish. Also, C's has great defenders on "5" position in Russ, Parish, Walton, KG and McHale. Bench provide some shooting in West in Goodrich. They dont have a real "power forward". Pau Gasol is closest they got, but prime Pau would be eaten alive by prime KG, prime McHale or prime Cowens.

Celtics have a much more balaced roster. Archibald controls game, but if Magic goes crazy, put DJ or Hondo on Magic. Shooting? Allen and Bird are deadly shooters from everywhere. KG could score inside and outside. On the bench you have White, Hondo and Pierce capable of shooting from outside, and McHale, Cowens, Walton and Parish all had a great touch for big men.

Celtics advantage: Defense. Russell is GDPOAT. KG, Hondo and DJ probably in TOP 15 all-time. McHale, Walton, Parish, Cowens, Jones great defenders. Bird very, very underated defender, especially if he had KG and Russ alongside.

Celtics advantage: Shooting. Bird, Allen, Pierce all have won 3point contest. Jones, Havlicek very good shooters. McHale, Cowens, Parish and Walton among best shooting big men ever

Celtics advantage: Clutchness. Lakers have Mr.Clutch West. Magic was once Tragic. Kobe has balls, but too much hero ball. Celtics? Bird probably greatest clucth player ever. Sam Jones was known as Mr.Clucth as well. Hondo great under pressure. Ray Allen, how much game winning 3pts he scored? DJ was also clutch. If a game comes to wire...Celtics were much better free throw shooters. You put Hondo, Allen, Bird, McHale/Garnett, Parish/Walton and you have a unit who shoots probably 85%. No week links. Lakers? Can't play Shaq or Wilt in clutch. Outside Kobe and West there's nobody on C's level.

Celtics advantage: Selflessness. Magic Johnson was great. But Kobe, Wilt? On Celtics, Bird, KG, Russ, Walton, Hondo, Cousy, Jones, Cowens...you can go on and on...

Celtics advantage: Passing. Magic were great passer. Nixon and West too. Wilt, KAJ and Pau solid for centers. But C's? Cousy led league 8 times. Archibald also was asist leader. Bird greatest passing forward ever. Walton greatest passing center ever. Hondo, Russ, KG, DJ, White, Cowens all very good passers

Celtics advantage: Heart. If you go to war you go with Bird, Russ, KG, Cowens and Hondo. They will dive to the floor, sacrifise own body, play with broken finger, nose... Its not even close.

Here it is. Lakers nation can have this. C's all-time greatest TEAM would destroy Fakers greatest TEAM. And this is a TEAM sport.
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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2014, 08:29:30 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Here I thought that this thread was about Laker homerism.

Where is Rondo on Cs all time team?

Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2014, 08:44:35 AM »

Offline DavorCroatiaFan

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I love Rondo, but i think  Archibald, Cousy, Johnson, White > Rondo.
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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2014, 08:46:23 AM »

Offline Eric M VAN

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Maybe they got better "star power", but we got a better team.
Imagine a 7 game series: (player must be at least 3 years on roster)
LAKERS:
Starting five: Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, James Worthy, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bench: Norm Nixon, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Michael Cooper, Jamaal Wilkes, Elgin Baylor, Paul Gasol, Bob McAdoo, George Mikan, Shaquille O'Neal

CELTICS:
Starting five: Nate Archibald, Ray Allen, Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, Bill Russell
Bench: Bob Cousy, Jo-Jo White, Dennis Johnson, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Paul Pierce, Kevin McHale, Dave Cowens, Bill Walton, Robert Parish

Lakers best position are center. Wilt, KAJ, Shaq...but they can't play together because spacing would be terrible with Magic and Worthy being poor outside shooters and Kobe being so-so and very selfish. Also, C's has great defenders on "5" position in Russ, Parish, Walton, KG and McHale. Bench provide some shooting in West in Goodrich. They dont have a real "power forward". Pau Gasol is closest they got, but prime Pau would be eaten alive by prime KG, prime McHale or prime Cowens.

Celtics have a much more balaced roster. Archibald controls game, but if Magic goes crazy, put DJ or Hondo on Magic. Shooting? Allen and Bird are deadly shooters from everywhere. KG could score inside and outside. On the bench you have White, Hondo and Pierce capable of shooting from outside, and McHale, Cowens, Walton and Parish all had a great touch for big men.

Celtics advantage: Defense. Russell is GDPOAT. KG, Hondo and DJ probably in TOP 15 all-time. McHale, Walton, Parish, Cowens, Jones great defenders. Bird very, very underated defender, especially if he had KG and Russ alongside.

Celtics advantage: Shooting. Bird, Allen, Pierce all have won 3point contest. Jones, Havlicek very good shooters. McHale, Cowens, Parish and Walton among best shooting big men ever

Celtics advantage: Clutchness. Lakers have Mr.Clutch West. Magic was once Tragic. Kobe has balls, but too much hero ball. Celtics? Bird probably greatest clucth player ever. Sam Jones was known as Mr.Clucth as well. Hondo great under pressure. Ray Allen, how much game winning 3pts he scored? DJ was also clutch. If a game comes to wire...Celtics were much better free throw shooters. You put Hondo, Allen, Bird, McHale/Garnett, Parish/Walton and you have a unit who shoots probably 85%. No week links. Lakers? Can't play Shaq or Wilt in clutch. Outside Kobe and West there's nobody on C's level.

Celtics advantage: Selflessness. Magic Johnson was great. But Kobe, Wilt? On Celtics, Bird, KG, Russ, Walton, Hondo, Cousy, Jones, Cowens...you can go on and on...

Celtics advantage: Passing. Magic were great passer. Nixon and West too. Wilt, KAJ and Pau solid for centers. But C's? Cousy led league 8 times. Archibald also was asist leader. Bird greatest passing forward ever. Walton greatest passing center ever. Hondo, Russ, KG, DJ, White, Cowens all very good passers

Celtics advantage: Heart. If you go to war you go with Bird, Russ, KG, Cowens and Hondo. They will dive to the floor, sacrifise own body, play with broken finger, nose... Its not even close.

Here it is. Lakers nation can have this. C's all-time greatest TEAM would destroy Fakers greatest TEAM. And this is a TEAM sport.
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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2014, 09:03:16 AM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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As a 50+ year Celtics Homer, I find the homerism quotient pretty much comparable between the Celts and the Lakers, and both have reason for their pride.  (In other words, C's fans can be just as nasty and "fanatical" as Lakers fans, but both love their team.)

As far as who is the better point guard, Bob Cousy or Rajon Rondo...Cooz was my all time favorite Celtic, with Magic second...until Rondo came along...and Rondo has gradually inched his way up to tie for first in my heart. (Everyone knows, I think that I love a passing point guard). I wonder how many other fans actually saw Cousy play, and what their memories and comparisons are.
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Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2014, 10:50:50 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Lakers fans

I find to be weird group ........but then I guess I feel the same about CA in general




Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2014, 11:31:35 AM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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As a 50+ year Celtics Homer, I find the homerism quotient pretty much comparable between the Celts and the Lakers, and both have reason for their pride.  (In other words, C's fans can be just as nasty and "fanatical" as Lakers fans, but both love their team.)

that's a very un-homer thing to say =)

Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2014, 12:35:38 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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Here I thought that this thread was about Laker homerism.

Where is Rondo on Cs all time team?

Go ahead, have your cake and eat it too... :)

Re: Laker Homerism at its height..
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2014, 01:46:16 PM »

Offline Celtic Fan Forever

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Maybe they got better "star power", but we got a better team.
Imagine a 7 game series: (player must be at least 3 years on roster)
LAKERS:
Starting five: Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, James Worthy, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bench: Norm Nixon, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Michael Cooper, Jamaal Wilkes, Elgin Baylor, Paul Gasol, Bob McAdoo, George Mikan, Shaquille O'Neal

CELTICS:
Starting five: Nate Archibald, Ray Allen, Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, Bill Russell
Bench: Bob Cousy, Jo-Jo White, Dennis Johnson, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Paul Pierce, Kevin McHale, Dave Cowens, Bill Walton, Robert Parish

Lakers best position are center. Wilt, KAJ, Shaq...but they can't play together because spacing would be terrible with Magic and Worthy being poor outside shooters and Kobe being so-so and very selfish. Also, C's has great defenders on "5" position in Russ, Parish, Walton, KG and McHale. Bench provide some shooting in West in Goodrich. They dont have a real "power forward". Pau Gasol is closest they got, but prime Pau would be eaten alive by prime KG, prime McHale or prime Cowens.

Celtics have a much more balaced roster. Archibald controls game, but if Magic goes crazy, put DJ or Hondo on Magic. Shooting? Allen and Bird are deadly shooters from everywhere. KG could score inside and outside. On the bench you have White, Hondo and Pierce capable of shooting from outside, and McHale, Cowens, Walton and Parish all had a great touch for big men.

Celtics advantage: Defense. Russell is GDPOAT. KG, Hondo and DJ probably in TOP 15 all-time. McHale, Walton, Parish, Cowens, Jones great defenders. Bird very, very underated defender, especially if he had KG and Russ alongside.

Celtics advantage: Shooting. Bird, Allen, Pierce all have won 3point contest. Jones, Havlicek very good shooters. McHale, Cowens, Parish and Walton among best shooting big men ever

Celtics advantage: Clutchness. Lakers have Mr.Clutch West. Magic was once Tragic. Kobe has balls, but too much hero ball. Celtics? Bird probably greatest clucth player ever. Sam Jones was known as Mr.Clucth as well. Hondo great under pressure. Ray Allen, how much game winning 3pts he scored? DJ was also clutch. If a game comes to wire...Celtics were much better free throw shooters. You put Hondo, Allen, Bird, McHale/Garnett, Parish/Walton and you have a unit who shoots probably 85%. No week links. Lakers? Can't play Shaq or Wilt in clutch. Outside Kobe and West there's nobody on C's level.

Celtics advantage: Selflessness. Magic Johnson was great. But Kobe, Wilt? On Celtics, Bird, KG, Russ, Walton, Hondo, Cousy, Jones, Cowens...you can go on and on...

Celtics advantage: Passing. Magic were great passer. Nixon and West too. Wilt, KAJ and Pau solid for centers. But C's? Cousy led league 8 times. Archibald also was asist leader. Bird greatest passing forward ever. Walton greatest passing center ever. Hondo, Russ, KG, DJ, White, Cowens all very good passers

Celtics advantage: Heart. If you go to war you go with Bird, Russ, KG, Cowens and Hondo. They will dive to the floor, sacrifise own body, play with broken finger, nose... Its not even close.

Here it is. Lakers nation can have this. C's all-time greatest TEAM would destroy Fakers greatest TEAM. And this is a TEAM sport.

Not gonna lie, I've created very similar rosters on NBA 2k14 and simulated all the way to the finals to put those teams against each other. Man was that fun, Celtics in 7 :)
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