Author Topic: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes  (Read 24302 times)

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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #75 on: July 30, 2014, 10:09:32 PM »

Offline celticmania

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The 6ers are starting to p--- me off

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #76 on: July 30, 2014, 10:38:25 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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While I don't necessarily object to the actual rule changes proposed, for defining how the lottery odds should work, I'm inclined to think that any such changes have to be introduced gradually and should not be introduced all of a sudden.

The reason is that these changes would alter the value of future draft picks that have been traded between teams.

For example, suppose Team A held the unprotected 2015 pick of Team B, who looked very likely to be one of the worst teams in the NBA next year.   These sort of rules would totally warp the value of that pick.

If they are determined to make these sorts of changes to the lottery odds, they should be planned well ahead of time so that they can be factored into valuations.
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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #77 on: July 30, 2014, 10:45:51 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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I think the 76ers may have messed up.

They picked an other injury riddled center, when they could have gone with Exum,Smart,Gordon,Randle. They could have tanked again and gotten a healthy big man in next years draft.

But now they have one PF and two centers going into a draft heavy with Bigs. I could see teams lowballing them when they want to make a move to free up who they want to keep.

I get taking Embiid because he was the best prospect. But some times you have to go what going to be the best for the team future. Because what happens if both Noel and Embiid can't stay on the floor. When you have one risk, you really should take an other at the same position when you could get a healthy one next draft.


Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #78 on: July 30, 2014, 10:46:41 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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The 76ers, sources said, are hoping to get the NBA to delay plans for at least a year because it acts as a de facto punishment while just playing by the rules that have been in place.

That's a pretty good point in favor of the 76ers, IMO.

  The other 29 teams are playing by the rules that have been in place as well. I don't think that claiming the league should delay attempts to prevent tanking because a team isn't trying to put a competitive team on the court and they want a high draft pick will fly. That's kind of like arguing for a delay in increasing the penalty for stealing because you'd planned to rob the liquor store to cover your electric bill.

Tanking for better odds of a high pick is allowed in the NBA.  Robbing the liquor store is not allowed...

  If tanking's allowed then an owner could tell the press his team deliberately lost games down the stretch to improve their draft position without fear of punishment from the league. I doubt that's the case.

You would agree, I assume, that 'tanking' has occurred in the NBA?  Everyone knows it, the league accepts it (as long as you don't come out in public and say that you're 'tanking') and it is surely the best, if not the only, way to rebuild quickly, or maybe at all. 

On the other hand, if you walk into a liquor store, point a gun at the cashier and demand money, the police and district attorney are not going to look the other way.  If you are apprehended, and they will attempt to identify and locate you, you will be charged with a crime.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #79 on: July 30, 2014, 10:49:46 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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While I don't necessarily object to the actual rule changes proposed, for defining how the lottery odds should work, I'm inclined to think that any such changes have to be introduced gradually and should not be introduced all of a sudden.

The reason is that these changes would alter the value of future draft picks that have been traded between teams.

For example, suppose Team A held the unprotected 2015 pick of Team B, who looked very likely to be one of the worst teams in the NBA next year.   These sort of rules would totally warp the value of that pick.

If they are determined to make these sorts of changes to the lottery odds, they should be planned well ahead of time so that they can be factored into valuations.

Spot on, 5M.  Thanks for the post. 

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #80 on: July 30, 2014, 11:27:30 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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While I don't necessarily object to the actual rule changes proposed, for defining how the lottery odds should work, I'm inclined to think that any such changes have to be introduced gradually and should not be introduced all of a sudden.

When Orlando won the 1993 lottery as the best non-playoff team, it took them about four months to re-weight the odds.
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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2014, 11:32:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Well, of course they are.

People who think the system doesn't need to be changed are kidding themselves about how some teams obviously operate, or else just don't care that there are 10-15 teams in any given season who enter the year with no hope of doing anything of consequence, and at least a handful who actively punt the season in a calculated way. 

And every now and then you get teams like the Sixers who try to take it to a total extreme.  The actions of the Sixers reflect badly on the entire league. 

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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2014, 11:59:49 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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all those that claim the lottery is not fixed, can you explain how Cleveland won the lottery 2 years out of four that the King was gone?

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #83 on: July 31, 2014, 12:24:50 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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all those that claim the lottery is not fixed, can you explain how Cleveland won the lottery 2 years out of four that the King was gone?

One of the numerical combinations assigned to them was drawn first hth.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #84 on: July 31, 2014, 12:34:56 AM »

Offline get_banners

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I mean, the only way to get rid of tanking is to give all the lottery teams equal odds, but that introduces an absurd degree of unfairness to the process, which is worse. So...a Western team like Phoenix deserves to get the #1 pick as much as the wretched Bucks, who tried this season, but were simply garbage? Really? That's not a way to improve bad teams at all. I think the unfairness is far worse than tanking because it is too random. Also, as many have mentioned, there could be ways to limit tanking w/o implementing a lottery - you can't get a top 3 pick 2 years in a row, etc. I still think the best way is to just base it on record. Its not like all garbage teams tank. Some are just bad, and you punish them by letting teams like the Cavs, run worse than Crazy Eddie's stores in the 1980s, keep getting top picks over them.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #85 on: July 31, 2014, 12:41:18 AM »

Offline BballTim

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The 76ers, sources said, are hoping to get the NBA to delay plans for at least a year because it acts as a de facto punishment while just playing by the rules that have been in place.

That's a pretty good point in favor of the 76ers, IMO.

  The other 29 teams are playing by the rules that have been in place as well. I don't think that claiming the league should delay attempts to prevent tanking because a team isn't trying to put a competitive team on the court and they want a high draft pick will fly. That's kind of like arguing for a delay in increasing the penalty for stealing because you'd planned to rob the liquor store to cover your electric bill.

Tanking for better odds of a high pick is allowed in the NBA.  Robbing the liquor store is not allowed...

  If tanking's allowed then an owner could tell the press his team deliberately lost games down the stretch to improve their draft position without fear of punishment from the league. I doubt that's the case.

You would agree, I assume, that 'tanking' has occurred in the NBA?  Everyone knows it, the league accepts it (as long as you don't come out in public and say that you're 'tanking') and it is surely the best, if not the only, way to rebuild quickly, or maybe at all. 

On the other hand, if you walk into a liquor store, point a gun at the cashier and demand money, the police and district attorney are not going to look the other way.  If you are apprehended, and they will attempt to identify and locate you, you will be charged with a crime.

  While this is a fairly pointless discussion, all you're basically saying is that if you're caught red-handed doing one thing you're in trouble, but if they don't have proof you did something else you get away with it. Obviously the fact that it's hard to prove something doesn't mean it's "allowed" to happen. That's like saying you're allowed to cheat on your taxes or commit perjury, since both of those things happen on a regular basis without punishment.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #86 on: July 31, 2014, 01:42:24 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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The 76ers, sources said, are hoping to get the NBA to delay plans for at least a year because it acts as a de facto punishment while just playing by the rules that have been in place.

That's a pretty good point in favor of the 76ers, IMO.

  The other 29 teams are playing by the rules that have been in place as well. I don't think that claiming the league should delay attempts to prevent tanking because a team isn't trying to put a competitive team on the court and they want a high draft pick will fly. That's kind of like arguing for a delay in increasing the penalty for stealing because you'd planned to rob the liquor store to cover your electric bill.

Tanking for better odds of a high pick is allowed in the NBA.  Robbing the liquor store is not allowed...

  If tanking's allowed then an owner could tell the press his team deliberately lost games down the stretch to improve their draft position without fear of punishment from the league. I doubt that's the case.

You would agree, I assume, that 'tanking' has occurred in the NBA?  Everyone knows it, the league accepts it (as long as you don't come out in public and say that you're 'tanking') and it is surely the best, if not the only, way to rebuild quickly, or maybe at all. 

On the other hand, if you walk into a liquor store, point a gun at the cashier and demand money, the police and district attorney are not going to look the other way.  If you are apprehended, and they will attempt to identify and locate you, you will be charged with a crime.

  While this is a fairly pointless discussion, all you're basically saying is that if you're caught red-handed doing one thing you're in trouble, but if they don't have proof you did something else you get away with it. Obviously the fact that it's hard to prove something doesn't mean it's "allowed" to happen. That's like saying you're allowed to cheat on your taxes or commit perjury, since both of those things happen on a regular basis without punishment.

What I am 'basically saying' is that your original comparison of tanking in the NBA to robbing a liquour store is terribly flawed. 

The NBA front office knows that franchises are tanking but does not attempt to sanction such teams.  When the appropriate government agencies are aware of tax cheating or commission of perjury, criminal prosecutions often follow.  The NBA cannot 'prove' tanking, but in some (most) instances, the IRS, etc. is able to 'prove' a violation or criminal misconduct.  For that reason alone, your analogy left much to be desired...

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #87 on: July 31, 2014, 01:45:58 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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And every now and then you get teams like the Sixers who try to take it to a total extreme.  The actions of the Sixers reflect badly on the entire league.
Its not just reflects badly on the league, but the league as a whole is unhappy with the 76ers because of how much money they're losing because of this. Their direct revenue has dipped a lot because of their approach to rebuilding their team.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #88 on: July 31, 2014, 02:19:55 PM »

Online Moranis

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And every now and then you get teams like the Sixers who try to take it to a total extreme.  The actions of the Sixers reflect badly on the entire league.
Its not just reflects badly on the league, but the league as a whole is unhappy with the 76ers because of how much money they're losing because of this. Their direct revenue has dipped a lot because of their approach to rebuilding their team.
And yet a number of people think it was the right thing for Philadelphia to do given their situation at the time. 
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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #89 on: July 31, 2014, 02:42:39 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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all those that claim the lottery is not fixed, can you explain how Cleveland won the lottery 2 years out of four that the King was gone?

lol its worse. They won 3 lotteries since Lebron.