Author Topic: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes  (Read 24301 times)

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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2014, 01:11:19 PM »

Offline Mr October

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All the NBA needs to do is reverse the lottery.  The team with the worst record should get the worst chance of winning the lottery.  The lottery team with the best record should get the best chance.  This will make every team in the league try to win every game.  The league as a whole will become more competitive making it a much better product for the fans.

That's no good. Then a 7th, 8th and 9th seed in each conference will tank to get that 25% lotto spot instead of the playoffs.

Just reduce the odds from a 25 - 0.05 % chance to a 12 to 1 % chance. The drop off from spot to spot would be leveled out.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2014, 01:14:18 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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All the NBA needs to do is reverse the lottery.  The team with the worst record should get the worst chance of winning the lottery.  The lottery team with the best record should get the best chance.  This will make every team in the league try to win every game.  The league as a whole will become more competitive making it a much better product for the fans.

That's no good. Then a 7th, 8th and 9th seed in each conference will tank to get that 25% lotto spot instead of the playoffs.

Just reduce the odds from a 25 - 0.05 % chance to a 12 to 1 % chance.

I could definitely see awkward situations where two teams are tied for the #8 seed, fighting for a playoff berth then trotting out a starting lineup of development league guys when a playoff berth is at stake.

That would be awfully awkward for the league to say the least.   Would blow for the fans.


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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2014, 01:14:18 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I rather see GMs construct a team to suck for ONE year for a pick, then actively and aggressively trying to improve the roster by making trades and signing FA

I'd rather see GMs never construct a team to suck specifically for a pick.  I can accept teams constructing a team that sucks as a secondary effect of clearing out bad contracts or letting young players develop, but if you're going to tank for picks, I want the odds to make it so that you will have to be miserable for several years and wreck your fan base if you want to plan to suck for as long as you need to get a #1 pick.

You can adjust the rules so that tanking is a bad idea.  You can't adjust the rules so that GMs don't pursue bad ideas.
And yet Philadelphia is probably better positioned to win a title in the next 5 years than Boston is.  Philadelphia has the reigning rookie of the year, a top contender for rookie of the year this year in Noel, a top contender for rookie of the year next year in Embiid, a top contender for rookie of the year two years from now in Saric, some solid other young players like Wroten and Moultrie, and 30 million in cap space with the only "bad" contract being the easily movable Thad Young.  Philly will have another very high pick next year as well to add another potential rookie of the year candidate. 

Philly is much better positioned to win and win big than Boston is and it isn't close.

I was going along with you on MWC (a fact that he won ROY) and Noels but than it gets a little crazy. Most things I have read have listed Embiid as returning around February at the latest so him winning ROY the following year seems tough.

Not sure Wroten and Moultrie are much more than bad players putting up big numbers on a bad team (see just about every celtics guy before the big 3 with exception of rondo and big al)

And Saric as Rookie of the year? The only guy that has ever come over from Europe and been ROY is Gasol ten years ago.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2014, 01:30:43 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The best solution is to create a panel of experts who will determine the draft order based on which teams deserve high picks the most and which teams should be punished with late picks.

And it should be comprised of Stephen A. Smith, Bill Simmons, Skip Bayless, and Michael Wilbon.
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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2014, 01:32:40 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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The 76ers, sources said, are hoping to get the NBA to delay plans for at least a year because it acts as a de facto punishment while just playing by the rules that have been in place.

That's a pretty good point in favor of the 76ers, IMO.

  The other 29 teams are playing by the rules that have been in place as well. I don't think that claiming the league should delay attempts to prevent tanking because a team isn't trying to put a competitive team on the court and they want a high draft pick will fly. That's kind of like arguing for a delay in increasing the penalty for stealing because you'd planned to rob the liquor store to cover your electric bill.

Tanking for better odds of a high pick is allowed in the NBA.  Robbing the liquor store is not allowed...

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2014, 01:33:52 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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The best solution is to create a panel of experts who will determine the draft order based on which teams deserve high picks the most and which teams should be punished with late picks.

And it should be comprised of Stephen A. Smith, Bill Simmons, Skip Bayless, and Michael Wilbon.

Please put Jim Rome on this panel.  Rome, SAS and Bayless together...now that's entertainment !!

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2014, 01:35:58 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The best solution is to create a panel of experts who will determine the draft order based on which teams deserve high picks the most and which teams should be punished with late picks.

And it should be comprised of Stephen A. Smith, Bill Simmons, Skip Bayless, and Michael Wilbon.

Please put Jim Rome on this panel.  Rome, SAS and Bayless together...now that's entertainment !!

Indeed, and we'll round it out with Mike Francesa so no one can accuse us of coastal bias. The content will be so high brow your could end up with your eyebrows at your hairline.
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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2014, 01:36:22 PM »

Offline MBunge

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I rather see GMs construct a team to suck for ONE year for a pick, then actively and aggressively trying to improve the roster by making trades and signing FA

I'd rather see GMs never construct a team to suck specifically for a pick.  I can accept teams constructing a team that sucks as a secondary effect of clearing out bad contracts or letting young players develop, but if you're going to tank for picks, I want the odds to make it so that you will have to be miserable for several years and wreck your fan base if you want to plan to suck for as long as you need to get a #1 pick.

You can adjust the rules so that tanking is a bad idea.  You can't adjust the rules so that GMs don't pursue bad ideas.
And yet Philadelphia is probably better positioned to win a title in the next 5 years than Boston is.  Philadelphia has the reigning rookie of the year, a top contender for rookie of the year this year in Noel, a top contender for rookie of the year next year in Embiid, a top contender for rookie of the year two years from now in Saric, some solid other young players like Wroten and Moultrie, and 30 million in cap space with the only "bad" contract being the easily movable Thad Young.  Philly will have another very high pick next year as well to add another potential rookie of the year candidate. 

Philly is much better positioned to win and win big than Boston is and it isn't close.

MWC was rookie of the year in one of the weakest rookie classes in NBA history.  Noel hasn't played a single minute and was seen as a project BEFORE he blew out his knee.  Embiid couldn't even make it through a college season without a serious injury and then suffered another injury between college and the draft, leading his agent to refuse to let teams see his medical records. And in Embiid's one season, he played just over 23 minutes a game and put up 11 pts, 8 boards and 2.6 blocks.  In addition, all the cap space in the world means nothing if your team and franchise suck so bad that no one wants to play for you.

Even in an optimistic scenario, Philly is going to be horrible for at least 2 more years, bad to mediocre for 1 to 2 more after that and then they're going to have to start worrying about how they're going to afford to keep all these high draft picks.

I suspect the kind of "fan" who doesn't care about how bad his team sucks will eventually cease to be a fan in any real sense of the world.

Mike

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2014, 01:55:48 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The 76ers, sources said, are hoping to get the NBA to delay plans for at least a year because it acts as a de facto punishment while just playing by the rules that have been in place.

That's a pretty good point in favor of the 76ers, IMO.

  The other 29 teams are playing by the rules that have been in place as well. I don't think that claiming the league should delay attempts to prevent tanking because a team isn't trying to put a competitive team on the court and they want a high draft pick will fly. That's kind of like arguing for a delay in increasing the penalty for stealing because you'd planned to rob the liquor store to cover your electric bill.

Tanking for better odds of a high pick is allowed in the NBA.  Robbing the liquor store is not allowed...

  If tanking's allowed then an owner could tell the press his team deliberately lost games down the stretch to improve their draft position without fear of punishment from the league. I doubt that's the case.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2014, 01:58:56 PM »

Offline moiso

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The 76ers, sources said, are hoping to get the NBA to delay plans for at least a year because it acts as a de facto punishment while just playing by the rules that have been in place.

That's a pretty good point in favor of the 76ers, IMO.

  The other 29 teams are playing by the rules that have been in place as well. I don't think that claiming the league should delay attempts to prevent tanking because a team isn't trying to put a competitive team on the court and they want a high draft pick will fly. That's kind of like arguing for a delay in increasing the penalty for stealing because you'd planned to rob the liquor store to cover your electric bill.
Exactly. 

I also read that all of the non playoff teams will have better odds of winning the top pick.  I'm definitely in favor of the whole proposal.  So the bad teams will have far less incentive to totally bottom out.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2014, 02:01:23 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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changes to the lottery system are dumb.  I mean rarely does the worse team actually end up with the first pick.

Right.  But, it's not rare to see teams lose as many games as possible to ensure the best possible odds of landing that first pick.

It's the intentional losing and the essential forfeiture of entire seasons that the NBA is taking issue with.  That's why Philly is objecting, because they have no plans to field even a moderately competitive team this year.  Long term, that's bad for business.
True, but I actually think the proposal would encourage more teams to tank because if you finish in the bottom 5 you would have the same shot at the #1 pick as the worse team.  Thus, you are now encouraging bad teams to ensure they are in the bottom 5 i.e. more teams tanking.


Agree with this.  And as far as teams throwing away seasons, the team with the worst record in the league last year (Milwaukee) had no intentions of 13-14 being a rebuilding season.  They just sucked.  If you greatly diminish a team like that's chances of getting a top 3 pick, they can be stuck in 60 loss territory for a long time.

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2014, 02:09:07 PM »

Offline moiso

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changes to the lottery system are dumb.  I mean rarely does the worse team actually end up with the first pick.

Right.  But, it's not rare to see teams lose as many games as possible to ensure the best possible odds of landing that first pick.

It's the intentional losing and the essential forfeiture of entire seasons that the NBA is taking issue with.  That's why Philly is objecting, because they have no plans to field even a moderately competitive team this year.  Long term, that's bad for business.
True, but I actually think the proposal would encourage more teams to tank because if you finish in the bottom 5 you would have the same shot at the #1 pick as the worse team.  Thus, you are now encouraging bad teams to ensure they are in the bottom 5 i.e. more teams tanking.


Agree with this.  And as far as teams throwing away seasons, the team with the worst record in the league last year (Milwaukee) had no intentions of 13-14 being a rebuilding season.  They just sucked.  If you greatly diminish a team like that's chances of getting a top 3 pick, they can be stuck in 60 loss territory for a long time.
I don't agree.  The odds for a big payoff from tanking are going to be far less under the new proposal.  So I don't anticipate teams being nearly as enthusiastic about losing games.  And I especially don't anticipate teams giving away assets in order to lose games.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 02:15:30 PM by moiso »

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2014, 02:10:56 PM »

Offline the_Bird

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changes to the lottery system are dumb.  I mean rarely does the worse team actually end up with the first pick.

...  tell that to all of the tanking proponents around CelticsBlog...    ::)

Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2014, 02:44:06 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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changes to the lottery system are dumb.  I mean rarely does the worse team actually end up with the first pick.

...  tell that to all of the tanking proponents around CelticsBlog...    ::)

It is arguably preferable to making the playoffs as a low seed.
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Re: 76ers fighting NBAs lottery changes
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2014, 03:18:19 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I rather see GMs construct a team to suck for ONE year for a pick, then actively and aggressively trying to improve the roster by making trades and signing FA

I'd rather see GMs never construct a team to suck specifically for a pick.  I can accept teams constructing a team that sucks as a secondary effect of clearing out bad contracts or letting young players develop, but if you're going to tank for picks, I want the odds to make it so that you will have to be miserable for several years and wreck your fan base if you want to plan to suck for as long as you need to get a #1 pick.

You can adjust the rules so that tanking is a bad idea.  You can't adjust the rules so that GMs don't pursue bad ideas.
And yet Philadelphia is probably better positioned to win a title in the next 5 years than Boston is.  Philadelphia has the reigning rookie of the year, a top contender for rookie of the year this year in Noel, a top contender for rookie of the year next year in Embiid, a top contender for rookie of the year two years from now in Saric, some solid other young players like Wroten and Moultrie, and 30 million in cap space with the only "bad" contract being the easily movable Thad Young.  Philly will have another very high pick next year as well to add another potential rookie of the year candidate. 

Philly is much better positioned to win and win big than Boston is and it isn't close.

Haha, go ahead keep telling yourself that.

Philly has arguably the worst reigning ROY in NBA history; take away Rondo, Green, Sullinger, and Bradley then maybe it's close.
How is Boston going to win a title though?  I'd much rather have Noel and Embiid than any one currently on Boston's roster.  They both have superstar potential and are big men. 

and you can mock MCW all you want, but he, in one season, has a better career season than 3 of the 4 guys on your list (rondo obviously the exception).  I mean I don't recall any of those other guys having 16.7p/6.3a/6.2r and 1.9 steals for good measure in a season. 
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