if washington or cleveland or chicago meet in ECF FINALS who would win?

[Donoghus]

Cleveland with Love?  Cleveland....probably.

Cleveland without Love?  Washington

I also disagree with OP regarding Chicago.  If Bulls get even a 70% Rose and CLE doesn't get Love, they're my favorite in the East.   If Cavs do get Love, I still think Chicago has a legitimate shot of beating them in the playoffs.   They would also take down Washington.

[MISSERY]

Cleveland with Love?  Cleveland....probably.

Cleveland without Love?  Washington

I also disagree with OP regarding Chicago.  If Bulls get even a 70% Rose and CLE doesn't get Love, they're my favorite in the East.   If Cavs do get Love, I still think Chicago has a legitimate shot of beating them in the playoffs.   They would also take down Washington.

its like saying nene or humphries can't guard love? they can't guard gasol too?
if john wall dominates the game both cleveland and bulls will have a problem, lebron might be forced to move to PG,

[Who]

John Wall is not an A-list star. He is a B-list star who has continually failed to make next grade.

[Donoghus]

Cleveland with Love?  Cleveland....probably.

Cleveland without Love?  Washington

I also disagree with OP regarding Chicago.  If Bulls get even a 70% Rose and CLE doesn't get Love, they're my favorite in the East.   If Cavs do get Love, I still think Chicago has a legitimate shot of beating them in the playoffs.   They would also take down Washington.

its like saying nene or humphries can't guard love? they can't guard gasol too?
if john wall dominates the game both cleveland and bulls will have a problem, lebron might be forced to move to PG,

Bulls have a deeper roster to contend with at the moment.  Washington has more to worry about than Pau Gasol if they're facing Chicago and they have a 70% Rose alongside what they already have. 

If the Bulls had any resemblance of a go-to guy down the stretch last playoffs and weren't relying up Kirk to try to bail them out, they are beating Washington that series.  Now they're getting Rose back, adding Gasol, and added depth with McDermott and Mirotic. 

[MISSERY]

John Wall is not an A-list star. He is a B-list star who has continually failed to make next grade.

who is the best pg in the east last season... d-rose out

[Moranis]

John Wall is not an A-list star. He is a B-list star who has continually failed to make next grade.

this is just silly.

[Who]

John Wall is not an A-list star. He is a B-list star who has continually failed to make next grade.

this is just silly.

Why?

[puskas54_10]

Can I vote Chicago?

This isn't a prediction thread.  It is a who would win thread.

Sure, but I reject the premise -- that is, that the Wizards and the Cavs are locks for the ECF.

Between the two, I think Cleveland takes it if both teams are healthy.

he didn't say they were locks, just what he thought and then asked who would win.  Not sure why you even bothered to post in the thread if you aren't going to contribute to the actual thread topic.

Do you need a hug?

Missery directly referenced why the Bulls weren't good enough to make it in the original post. I don't know if I buy it. Why did you bother to get contentious without any reason to do so?

"share your opinions and thoughts" would seem to indicate that everything he posted is up for grabs, not just "answer the poll and post why."

You are pretty disrespectful to Moranis plus he's totally right. The question in the OP was who would win Cle vs Was not what you said.

[Who]

My problems with John Wall are:

* A poor jump-shooter. Shot 25% from 3-10 feet range, 35% from midrange (10-16 feet) and 37% from long two point range (17-23 feet). Hit a solid 35% from three point land.
* A PG with very good vision who gets high assist numbers but regularly makes bad decisions and does not run team well. Wizards offense often lacks direction / purpose.
* High turnover player. 3.6 turnovers per game last year.
* Only a so-so scorer due to inefficiencies in his game (TS% 52%).

All of the above combining to make Wall a good but not dominant offensive player.

I do love Wall's defense and think he is a good rebounder. But offensively, his limitations make it difficult for him to be main guy on a title contender.

More suited to being a #2 than a #1.

[puskas54_10]

John Wall is not an A-list star. He is a B-list star who has continually failed to make next grade.

If Wall is B-list star then Rondo is too. In the playoffs Wall distributed the ball with care and was a great floor general, but struggled to score when needed badly. I think Wall will be better with the playoff experience he gained.

[D.o.s.]

Can I vote Chicago?

This isn't a prediction thread.  It is a who would win thread.

Sure, but I reject the premise -- that is, that the Wizards and the Cavs are locks for the ECF.

Between the two, I think Cleveland takes it if both teams are healthy.

he didn't say they were locks, just what he thought and then asked who would win.  Not sure why you even bothered to post in the thread if you aren't going to contribute to the actual thread topic.

Do you need a hug?

Missery directly referenced why the Bulls weren't good enough to make it in the original post. I don't know if I buy it. Why did you bother to get contentious without any reason to do so?

"share your opinions and thoughts" would seem to indicate that everything he posted is up for grabs, not just "answer the poll and post why."

You are pretty disrespectful to Moranis plus he's totally right. The question in the OP was who would win Cle vs Was not what you said.

One: That's not true -- I dig Moranis. Seriously, he's a smart dude with good contributions to the board.

Two: By the time I'd commented there was already a discussion about why Chicago wasn't in the conversation for the ECF, and the OP was open ended. I was hardly derailing the thread or anything like that. Also, I'm hardly the one that started off by being disrespectful.

So, please, feel free to try and shame me into sitting at the kids table or whatever, but perhaps read the whole thread before chiming in. 

[puskas54_10]

Can I vote Chicago?

This isn't a prediction thread.  It is a who would win thread.

Sure, but I reject the premise -- that is, that the Wizards and the Cavs are locks for the ECF.

Between the two, I think Cleveland takes it if both teams are healthy.

he didn't say they were locks, just what he thought and then asked who would win.  Not sure why you even bothered to post in the thread if you aren't going to contribute to the actual thread topic.

Do you need a hug?

Missery directly referenced why the Bulls weren't good enough to make it in the original post. I don't know if I buy it. Why did you bother to get contentious without any reason to do so?

"share your opinions and thoughts" would seem to indicate that everything he posted is up for grabs, not just "answer the poll and post why."

You are pretty disrespectful to Moranis plus he's totally right. The question in the OP was who would win Cle vs Was not what you said.

One: That's not true -- I dig Moranis. Seriously, he's a smart dude with good contributions to the board.

Two: By the time I'd commented there was already a discussion about why Chicago wasn't in the conversation for the ECF, and the OP was open ended. I was hardly derailing the thread or anything like that. Also, I'm hardly the one that started off by being disrespectful.

So, please, feel free to try and shame me into sitting at the kids table or whatever, but perhaps read the whole thread before chiming in. 

I guess you're trying to be eleganty rude, whatever. I'm not here to argue about how to act properly.

BTW I've read the Chicago thing and I'm not trusting the bulls a bit. It's a media created thing. In the EC Chicago is the biggest market who have the best chance to win (New York, Boston, Miami looks weaker than them) and the media needs a big market team as a flagship  to promote in the east. Cleveland will win the east.

[Vox_Populi]

John Wall is not an A-list star. He is a B-list star who has continually failed to make next grade.

this is just silly.

Why?

Because he basically took the Wizards from the lottery to the Playoffs, and a winning record, in the first season where he was fully healthy even with the usual injuries to Beal and Nene. His mid-range shooting is the biggest knock against him, and even then, he improved his free throws and his 3-point shot.

Wittman isn't a good offensive coach. Washington played a lot like OKC last season with a lot on the players for improvisation. Obviously less efficiently.

[D.o.s.]

Can I vote Chicago?

This isn't a prediction thread.  It is a who would win thread.

Sure, but I reject the premise -- that is, that the Wizards and the Cavs are locks for the ECF.

Between the two, I think Cleveland takes it if both teams are healthy.

he didn't say they were locks, just what he thought and then asked who would win.  Not sure why you even bothered to post in the thread if you aren't going to contribute to the actual thread topic.

Do you need a hug?

Missery directly referenced why the Bulls weren't good enough to make it in the original post. I don't know if I buy it. Why did you bother to get contentious without any reason to do so?

"share your opinions and thoughts" would seem to indicate that everything he posted is up for grabs, not just "answer the poll and post why."

You are pretty disrespectful to Moranis plus he's totally right. The question in the OP was who would win Cle vs Was not what you said.

One: That's not true -- I dig Moranis. Seriously, he's a smart dude with good contributions to the board.

Two: By the time I'd commented there was already a discussion about why Chicago wasn't in the conversation for the ECF, and the OP was open ended. I was hardly derailing the thread or anything like that. Also, I'm hardly the one that started off by being disrespectful.

So, please, feel free to try and shame me into sitting at the kids table or whatever, but perhaps read the whole thread before chiming in. 

I guess you're trying to be eleganty rude, whatever. I'm not here to argue about how to act properly.

BTW I've read the Chicago thing and I'm not trusting the bulls a bit. It's a media created thing. In the EC Chicago is the biggest market who have the best chance to win (New York, Boston, Miami looks weaker than them) and the media needs a big market team as a flagship  to promote in the east. Cleveland will win the east.

Yeah, that's not actually true either.  People think the Bulls will be good because, *gasp*, the Bulls look to be substantially better than they were last season, when they won 48 games. If the typical barometer for Championship contention is winning 55 games or more, the Bulls look like one of the most likely teams to hit that in the East. Certainly they look more likely to do so than Indiana, who look to be worse than they were last season, and you can make a very easy case that they're more likely to do it than Washington.

Also worth noting: Miami's not a big media market. Whatever you believe you know about the way stories are created by ESPN and the like, you might want to rethink. I do agree that Cleveland has to be considered the favorites, but I'd say that's more of a media driven idea than Chicago's potential return to form.

[Donoghus]

Can I vote Chicago?

This isn't a prediction thread.  It is a who would win thread.

Sure, but I reject the premise -- that is, that the Wizards and the Cavs are locks for the ECF.

Between the two, I think Cleveland takes it if both teams are healthy.

he didn't say they were locks, just what he thought and then asked who would win.  Not sure why you even bothered to post in the thread if you aren't going to contribute to the actual thread topic.

Do you need a hug?

Missery directly referenced why the Bulls weren't good enough to make it in the original post. I don't know if I buy it. Why did you bother to get contentious without any reason to do so?

"share your opinions and thoughts" would seem to indicate that everything he posted is up for grabs, not just "answer the poll and post why."

You are pretty disrespectful to Moranis plus he's totally right. The question in the OP was who would win Cle vs Was not what you said.

One: That's not true -- I dig Moranis. Seriously, he's a smart dude with good contributions to the board.

Two: By the time I'd commented there was already a discussion about why Chicago wasn't in the conversation for the ECF, and the OP was open ended. I was hardly derailing the thread or anything like that. Also, I'm hardly the one that started off by being disrespectful.

So, please, feel free to try and shame me into sitting at the kids table or whatever, but perhaps read the whole thread before chiming in. 

I guess you're trying to be eleganty rude, whatever. I'm not here to argue about how to act properly.

BTW I've read the Chicago thing and I'm not trusting the bulls a bit. It's a media created thing. In the EC Chicago is the biggest market who have the best chance to win (New York, Boston, Miami looks weaker than them) and the media needs a big market team as a flagship  to promote in the east. Cleveland will win the east.

Yeah, that's not actually true either.  People think the Bulls will be good because, *gasp*, the Bulls look to be substantially better than they were last season, when they won 48 games. If the typical barometer for Championship contention is winning 55 games or more, the Bulls look like one of the most likely teams to hit that in the East. Certainly they look more likely to do so than Indiana, who look to be worse than they were last season, and you can make a very easy case that they're more likely to do it than Washington.

Also worth noting: Miami's not a big media market. Whatever you believe you know about the way stories are created by ESPN and the like, you might want to rethink. I do agree that Cleveland has to be considered the favorites, but I'd say that's more of a media driven idea than Chicago's potential return to form.

Basically how I look at it also.  With Lebron's defection to CLE, I think the East is much more balanced in regards to competitive balance right now.  Obviously, different tiers but I don't see a clear cut favorite emerging yet.   CLE simply adding Lebron isn't enough...yet.  I think they're an organization that will start to really put things together in Year 2 and beyond;  adding depth and more roster revamp & so on.  I think asking them to win the East in Year One of the second Lebron era might be biting off more than they can chew, IMO,  but I still put them in that top tier of East teams right now.  If they add Love, the media adulation will really go into overdrive and no doubt most pundits will deem them the East favorites.

Chicago has been a steady team in the East for a handful of years now and I think they've built out that depth that had been lacking a bit.  With Rose back, I think the East is there for their taking.