Author Topic: Don't Blame Jeff Green.  (Read 7399 times)

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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2014, 01:53:29 AM »

fitzhickey

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Jeff Green isn't half as bad as most people think. He's an average/slightly above average SF. Accept that

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2014, 06:30:39 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I don't dump on him for those reasons. I dump on him because of the wasted talent, he should be a lot better than he is and it's no one's fault but his own.

though I do think we could do things to trick him into being better. like getting the ball to him early and often, force feed him the ball, look for him on inbounds plays after a basket is scored and rebounds. if he got the ball on a break or on an inbounds play after the other team scores he could do some damage with less defenders back.

we've seen green have good games when this stuff happens. why not make a concerted effort to do it consistently. rondo doesn't have to bring the ball up every play.

You could be more right than you know.  Look at these highlights against the Cavs from last season and you'll see that many of his touches begin in his sweet spot - the mid-post to traditional post position.  He may not be a great ball handler or one-on-one player, but I always thought that Green was much more of a traditional sf, in that his strength is posting up.  He's got some good moves and we should just, as you say, force feed him the ball down low.  It won't change his approach or production too much, imo, but maybe it will.  You never know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmtb3-BEOEU

Food for thought:

According to basketball-reference.com, Green took 39.1% of is FGA within 10 feet.  That's 5.6 FGA per game.

According to NBA.com's Player Tracking data, Green received just 1.8 'Close Touches' per game.  They define a 'Close Touch' as a received touch within 12 feet of the hoop.

So, basically, that meant that the vast majority of Green's shots within 10 feet were the result of him either working it into the post himself or driving.

Conversely, when he wasn't taking close-in shots, Green took the next big chunk of his shots outside the arc -- a mammoth 396 of them this year.  That's 4.8 per game (34% of his shots).   Far more than he's ever taken -- and according to Danny, this was because the team wanted him working on it.  Of these 3PT shots, 86.7% were assisted, overwhelmingly as catch-and-shoot.    For that to be the case, most of the time he would most likely have been setup outside by design.

Of course, given the dearth of reliable 3PT shooting on this team, setting Green up outside was probably necessary to give some semblance of space to guys like Sully, Hump & Bass.

To summarize, Green was used primarily as an outside-in scorer in this offense, with an emphasis on 'outside'.   The team did little to get him the ball inside.   Most of his inside scoring, he created on his own.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 06:41:49 PM by mmmmm »
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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2014, 07:20:20 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2014, 07:44:22 PM »

Offline moiso

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I really don't understand how someone can "work on 3 point shooting" by taking 4 or 5 per game.  That goes for Green and also Sullinger.  Working on 3 point shooting is taking a few hundred every day, but not in the games.  At least Green is adequate so his 3's are justified.  I really don't get it in Sullinger's case.

Maybe Andres Beidrins and DeAndre Jordan should "work on their 3 point shooting" :-\

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2014, 07:54:40 PM »

Offline bballdog384

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I really don't understand how someone can "work on 3 point shooting" by taking 4 or 5 per game.  That goes for Green and also Sullinger.  Working on 3 point shooting is taking a few hundred every day, but not in the games.  At least Green is adequate so his 3's are justified.  I really don't get it in Sullinger's case.

Maybe Andres Beidrins and DeAndre Jordan should "work on their 3 point shooting" :-\

I think there is a difference between 'game 3's' and 'practice 3's'

Some players can make them all day long at the gym, but it's always a little different in the pressure of a game.

Also, they are never able to have enough practice time during the season, so there is a higher emphasis on 'game experience'.
"You can't play like a robot" -Coach Stevens

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2014, 07:59:49 PM »

Offline bballdog384

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I don't dump on him for those reasons. I dump on him because of the wasted talent, he should be a lot better than he is and it's no one's fault but his own.

though I do think we could do things to trick him into being better. like getting the ball to him early and often, force feed him the ball, look for him on inbounds plays after a basket is scored and rebounds. if he got the ball on a break or on an inbounds play after the other team scores he could do some damage with less defenders back.

we've seen green have good games when this stuff happens. why not make a concerted effort to do it consistently. rondo doesn't have to bring the ball up every play.

You could be more right than you know.  Look at these highlights against the Cavs from last season and you'll see that many of his touches begin in his sweet spot - the mid-post to traditional post position.  He may not be a great ball handler or one-on-one player, but I always thought that Green was much more of a traditional sf, in that his strength is posting up.  He's got some good moves and we should just, as you say, force feed him the ball down low.  It won't change his approach or production too much, imo, but maybe it will.  You never know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmtb3-BEOEU

Food for thought:

According to basketball-reference.com, Green took 39.1% of is FGA within 10 feet.  That's 5.6 FGA per game.

According to NBA.com's Player Tracking data, Green received just 1.8 'Close Touches' per game.  They define a 'Close Touch' as a received touch within 12 feet of the hoop.

So, basically, that meant that the vast majority of Green's shots within 10 feet were the result of him either working it into the post himself or driving.

Conversely, when he wasn't taking close-in shots, Green took the next big chunk of his shots outside the arc -- a mammoth 396 of them this year.  That's 4.8 per game (34% of his shots).   Far more than he's ever taken -- and according to Danny, this was because the team wanted him working on it.  Of these 3PT shots, 86.7% were assisted, overwhelmingly as catch-and-shoot.    For that to be the case, most of the time he would most likely have been setup outside by design.

Of course, given the dearth of reliable 3PT shooting on this team, setting Green up outside was probably necessary to give some semblance of space to guys like Sully, Hump & Bass.

To summarize, Green was used primarily as an outside-in scorer in this offense, with an emphasis on 'outside'.   The team did little to get him the ball inside.   Most of his inside scoring, he created on his own.

Reading your post made me drool (not actually, just figuratively).

Just think of [old] Rondo and Green playing together. Some pick and pop/roll action. Feed Green down low. Throw it to the corner to Bradley. ohhh yeah.

Just think of the small improvements Green and Bradley (who made huge improvements in my eyes) made last year, and imagine them playing with the Rondo that was averaging 14 asts/game.
"You can't play like a robot" -Coach Stevens

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2014, 08:06:59 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I would blame Jeff Green, but I'm too lazy and can't be bothered to do anything simple like that because I have chronic Jeff Green's disease.

My prediction...he largely destroys his career this year and either Wallace or James Young take his position from him.

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2014, 08:48:26 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Some players can make them all day long at the gym, but it's always a little different in the pressure of a game.

I don't Sully can make them in either place.   

This can be overcome a lot by practicing in game conditions.   Bob Huggins once told me never to practice a shot that wasn't in a game condition because it was worthless.   I suppose it is ok to practice form but other than that...

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2014, 10:02:42 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

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Jeff Green isn't half as bad as most people think. He's an average/slightly above average SF. Accept that

Summed up perfectly.  TP
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2014, 01:40:10 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Just think of [old] Rondo and Green playing together. Some pick and pop/roll action. Feed Green down low. Throw it to the corner to Bradley. ohhh yeah.

Just think of the small improvements Green and Bradley (who made huge improvements in my eyes) made last year, and imagine them playing with the Rondo that was averaging 14 asts/game.

In another thread, I did a quick analysis of Rondo, Bradley & Green playing together.   Over the last two years, unfortunately, they have only been healthy enough to play together at the same time on the floor for a grand total of just 303 minutes.   And much of that always seemed to be with one or more of them coming back from injury.   And obviously, that's with a variety of big men up front -- usually the undersized pairing of twosomes from Bass/Sully/Hump.   Obviously, the better defensive numbers were from the small portion of the sample that included KG up front.   And most of the time the last two years, well, the team just hasn't been very good.

Nevertheless, it's interesting to note that overall, those three together have posted a Net rating of +3 per 100 possessions.   Even more interesting is that, with Rondo quarterbacking, the usage of Bradley and Green is split straight down the middle.   Bradley took 130 shots during that span and Green took 129.   They both also posted identical 47.3% eFG% and nearly identical USG% (22.0% for Bradley, 22.9% for Green).

I'm very interested to see the three of them finally get an extended chance to play together while healthy.
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