Author Topic: Don't Blame Jeff Green.  (Read 7406 times)

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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2014, 11:12:46 PM »

Offline chambers

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The whole, "But Jeff Green doesn't make a crapton of money. His contract is like 80% reasonable" counter argument seems to miss the point for me. The argument, for me at least, is not "Can Jeff Green justify his contract and roster spot?"

Jeff Green is a NBA caliber athlete and player in his prime. With an appropriate supporting cast (on of which he is not a top 3 or hopefully 4 player) I don't doubt that Green could play a role as a capable starting forward.

And at 9 million a season, that's legitimate, especially considering the way starting caliber athletes are paid.

But the real question for me is "Should we hold on to Jeff Green, knowing he isn't a franchise caliber player, who is paid like an elite role player (a term I'm trying to insert into our vernacular) when his presence won't move the needle very far in terms of wins or losses?"

The real question is should we move him for assets we could actually use when/if we want to trade them in for something better while developing our own young players, or should we keep him in the hopes that if we turn it around and right the ship, he'll be a viable starter and not on an untenable contract?

I think that turn around is more than 1 season away. I think the writing is on the wall there. Why not move Jeff Green if we can get something out it?

TP for keepin' it real.

It's funny with all these guys getting paid monster contracts, Jeff has gone from average to maybe even slightly overpaid in some people's minds, to being a nice, solid, good value contract at 8-9 million a year. He will probably opt out now, which is funny because many people (myself included) were worried that he'd opt in at the end of this season when now the odds are that he'll likely opt out and search for a bigger deal like 4-5 years at $40 million.
Probably a good topic in itself.
I think we need to trade him now while we can get something for him because he's taking minutes from Turner (another trade asset) and James Young. Get a late first rounder or take on an expiring as well to get two picks out of him.
If he walks in a years time for nothing then what's the point of keeping him now and letting him win us an extra 5 games this year?
He's an elite role player and the argument I have against Jeff is the same argument I have against signing guys like Greg Monroe- we are currently looking to either cut salary with rookie deals or expirings for assets, or we are looking to sign top 20 NBA players. Guys like Jeff and Greg Monroe are forever riding their donkey off into the sunset towards no man's land and they need at least 2-3 better players to make the most of their skills.
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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2014, 11:13:08 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Jeff Green just needs to have consistent aggressiveness. That's the only thing IMO that's separating him from a starter to a star.

He can shoot decent to good, defend, and can get above the rim. He can be Rudy Gay, but he keeps sleepwalking most of the time, it's frustrating.
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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2014, 11:24:30 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I call Jeff Green, Mr. October.

Because he plays every game like it is preseason.

That's nice. Very nice. TP.

Ditto ;D

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2014, 11:32:05 PM »

Offline Mazingerz

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The whole, "But Jeff Green doesn't make a crapton of money. His contract is like 80% reasonable" counter argument seems to miss the point for me. The argument, for me at least, is not "Can Jeff Green justify his contract and roster spot?"

Jeff Green is a NBA caliber athlete and player in his prime. With an appropriate supporting cast (on of which he is not a top 3 or hopefully 4 player) I don't doubt that Green could play a role as a capable starting forward.

And at 9 million a season, that's legitimate, especially considering the way starting caliber athletes are paid.

But the real question for me is "Should we hold on to Jeff Green, knowing he isn't a franchise caliber player, who is paid like an elite role player (a term I'm trying to insert into our vernacular) when his presence won't move the needle very far in terms of wins or losses?"

The real question is should we move him for assets we could actually use when/if we want to trade them in for something better while developing our own young players, or should we keep him in the hopes that if we turn it around and right the ship, he'll be a viable starter and not on an untenable contract?

I think that turn around is more than 1 season away. I think the writing is on the wall there. Why not move Jeff Green if we can get something out it?

If we can move him, i'm okay by it. Thad Young's contract is similar to his.
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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2014, 11:46:41 PM »

Offline Billz401

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I like Jeff Green as a player on the Celtics and I think he has very good value at his current contract.  I think people who are down on him are comparing his past production with a perception of what his potential should be.  I understand that.  It does seem like Green should be better but I don't think there are all that many players other than Rookie contracts, that are better at $9M.

Anderson Varejao $9,704,545
Steve Nash $9,701,000
Kendrick Perkins $9,654,342
Demar DeRozan $9,500,000
Paul Millsap $9,500,000
Tiago Splitter $9,250,000
Jeff Green $9,200,000
Thaddeus Young $9,160,869
Evan Turner $8,717,226 (?)
Mike Conley Jr $8,694,216
Marcus Thornton $8,575,000
Ryan Anderson $8,491,500

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz38j1yTgur
http://www.draftexpress.com

I grabbed these from Draft Express and not sure how accurate Jeff Green is certainly not out of range with these other players with a similar salary.

I would take almost all those guys over Green except for Nash, Perkins and Thornton. 

Here's what I don't get with those who say Green is worth his contract.  9 million is an above average salary.  It should't be too much to expect above average production in some aspect of the game for 9 million.  Well, Green doesn't provide it at all.  His scoring is inefficient.  His passing and rebounding are well below-average.  His long range shooting is just okay.  His individual defense is erratic and his team defense is below-average.

How can you even say that?? His scoring is above average and probably the best scorer on the roster. His long range shooting is way above average and I've seen no evidence to support your stance of him being a terrible defender. Did we all watch the same celtics last year??
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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2014, 11:48:44 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Jeff Green is a stud. 2 years ago he came  back from a very serious heart condition. He battled and then became one of there best players toward the end of that year.
Last year he played with a bunch of young guys, couple of scrubs and  anew coach. His focus was working within a system, that was changed half way through the season when Rondo came back.

Jeff Green is a great player and should be given the benefit of the doubt.
If the Celtics keep a regular consistent rotation, Green will show his value.

Especially in Levi's jeans.

Hahaha ;D  TP.

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2014, 11:52:15 PM »

Offline Billz401

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The whole, "But Jeff Green doesn't make a crapton of money. His contract is like 80% reasonable" counter argument seems to miss the point for me. The argument, for me at least, is not "Can Jeff Green justify his contract and roster spot?"

Jeff Green is a NBA caliber athlete and player in his prime. With an appropriate supporting cast (on of which he is not a top 3 or hopefully 4 player) I don't doubt that Green could play a role as a capable starting forward.

And at 9 million a season, that's legitimate, especially considering the way starting caliber athletes are paid.

But the real question for me is "Should we hold on to Jeff Green, knowing he isn't a franchise caliber player, who is paid like an elite role player (a term I'm trying to insert into our vernacular) when his presence won't move the needle very far in terms of wins or losses?"

The real question is should we move him for assets we could actually use when/if we want to trade them in for something better while developing our own young players, or should we keep him in the hopes that if we turn it around and right the ship, he'll be a viable starter and not on an untenable contract?

I think that turn around is more than 1 season away. I think the writing is on the wall there. Why not move Jeff Green if we can get something out it?

If we can move him, i'm okay by it. Thad Young's contract is similar to his.

I completely agree if we can get assets for him while we are 2 years away from contending why not pull the trigger. But this stance that Jeff is a terrible player and overpaid is just ridiculous. There are alot more frustrating players on this roster *cough* avery bradley that No1 brings up..
everyone got so sensitive after 9-11... thanks alot bin laden

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2014, 11:52:33 PM »

Offline Galeto

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I like Jeff Green as a player on the Celtics and I think he has very good value at his current contract.  I think people who are down on him are comparing his past production with a perception of what his potential should be.  I understand that.  It does seem like Green should be better but I don't think there are all that many players other than Rookie contracts, that are better at $9M.

Anderson Varejao $9,704,545
Steve Nash $9,701,000
Kendrick Perkins $9,654,342
Demar DeRozan $9,500,000
Paul Millsap $9,500,000
Tiago Splitter $9,250,000
Jeff Green $9,200,000
Thaddeus Young $9,160,869
Evan Turner $8,717,226 (?)
Mike Conley Jr $8,694,216
Marcus Thornton $8,575,000
Ryan Anderson $8,491,500

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz38j1yTgur
http://www.draftexpress.com

I grabbed these from Draft Express and not sure how accurate Jeff Green is certainly not out of range with these other players with a similar salary.

I would take almost all those guys over Green except for Nash, Perkins and Thornton. 

Here's what I don't get with those who say Green is worth his contract.  9 million is an above average salary.  It should't be too much to expect above average production in some aspect of the game for 9 million.  Well, Green doesn't provide it at all.  His scoring is inefficient.  His passing and rebounding are well below-average.  His long range shooting is just okay.  His individual defense is erratic and his team defense is below-average.

How can you even say that?? His scoring is above average and probably the best scorer on the roster. His long range shooting is way above average and I've seen no evidence to support your stance of him being a terrible defender. Did we all watch the same celtics last year??

He averaged 16.9 points on 14.3 shots.  That is not very good. A lot of players can average that on that many shots on bad teams.  He was not an above average scorer last season.

He shot 34.1 percent from three, which is basically around his career mark of 34.4 percent.  He's an okay shooter from deep.  In rating that aspect of his game, I wouldn't add it in his favor towards his valuation.

As far as defense, I don't get it with him.  His teams have been far better defensively without him and this includes his time at small forward.  I don't think he's all that good at denying penetration, his rebounding is a minus and his defensive awareness isn't sharp.

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2014, 12:03:18 AM »

Offline Galeto

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Green took 14.3 shots to get 16.9 points.  He averaged under 5 rebounds, under 2 assists, under 1 steal, averaged more turnovers than assists and also didn't even appear to bring consistent effort every game.  How is he supposed to be worth 9 million?  I don't even care that he makes 9 million or whether he's overpaid, underpaid or fairly paid.  It just bothers me that Ainge evaluated Green as a guy he wants on his team.

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2014, 12:57:47 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I don't dump on him for those reasons. I dump on him because of the wasted talent, he should be a lot better than he is and it's no one's fault but his own.

though I do think we could do things to trick him into being better. like getting the ball to him early and often, force feed him the ball, look for him on inbounds plays after a basket is scored and rebounds. if he got the ball on a break or on an inbounds play after the other team scores he could do some damage with less defenders back.

we've seen green have good games when this stuff happens. why not make a concerted effort to do it consistently. rondo doesn't have to bring the ball up every play.

You could be more right than you know.  Look at these highlights against the Cavs from last season and you'll see that many of his touches begin in his sweet spot - the mid-post to traditional post position.  He may not be a great ball handler or one-on-one player, but I always thought that Green was much more of a traditional sf, in that his strength is posting up.  He's got some good moves and we should just, as you say, force feed him the ball down low.  It won't change his approach or production too much, imo, but maybe it will.  You never know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmtb3-BEOEU
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 01:09:53 AM by Beat LA »

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2014, 01:01:35 AM »

Offline inverselock

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Wallace is on our team and all this hate for Jeff?   Please.  Green's not on a max.

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2014, 01:09:55 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Wallace is on our team and all this hate for Jeff?   Please.  Green's not on a max.

Neither is Wallace. And he brought back assets. Jeff Green brought back..(takes off sunglasses)..mediocrity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

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Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2014, 01:12:10 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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The whole, "But Jeff Green doesn't make a crapton of money. His contract is like 80% reasonable" counter argument seems to miss the point for me. The argument, for me at least, is not "Can Jeff Green justify his contract and roster spot?"

Jeff Green is a NBA caliber athlete and player in his prime. With an appropriate supporting cast (on of which he is not a top 3 or hopefully 4 player) I don't doubt that Green could play a role as a capable starting forward.

And at 9 million a season, that's legitimate, especially considering the way starting caliber athletes are paid.

But the real question for me is "Should we hold on to Jeff Green, knowing he isn't a franchise caliber player, who is paid like an elite role player (a term I'm trying to insert into our vernacular) when his presence won't move the needle very far in terms of wins or losses?"

The real question is should we move him for assets we could actually use when/if we want to trade them in for something better while developing our own young players, or should we keep him in the hopes that if we turn it around and right the ship, he'll be a viable starter and not on an untenable contract?

I think that turn around is more than 1 season away. I think the writing is on the wall there. Why not move Jeff Green if we can get something out it?

Perfect analysis.  TP.

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2014, 01:48:03 AM »

Offline inverselock

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Wallace is on our team and all this hate for Jeff?   Please.  Green's not on a max.

Neither is Wallace. And he brought back assets. Jeff Green brought back..(takes off sunglasses)..mediocrity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

Ok.  Wallace gets a free ride for a few assets.  Does nothing on court.  Gotcha. 

 So many bad contracts around the league, and celtics blog act as if Green's is the worst.

Re: Don't Blame Jeff Green.
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2014, 01:51:04 AM »

Offline Scintan

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Jeff Green is a stud.

No, he's not. 


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