Author Topic: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?  (Read 14766 times)

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Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2014, 08:41:01 PM »

Offline satch

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 I like Rondo...in fact I admire him. But his style of play does not fit the philosophy that Brad Stevens is trying to implement. Not saying Rondo's game is bad or Stevens philosophy is wrong...they just don't fit. If the both stay we do have one thing in common. There will not be many Tommy points.

Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2014, 08:46:43 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Rondo, Bradley, and three other guys.
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Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2014, 08:49:27 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Wallace was such a beast, he's washed up now but you're really not doing him justice talking like that

Well, he's not doing himself any favors by talking like that, either.  I hate guys like him an Jason Terry, for the simple reason that they can't back up what they're saying on the court.  Terry was nothing but chatter when he was here, and then Lebron posterized him, in addition to 'the jet' being terrible while he was here.  If you're going to talk the talk, you'd better be able to walk the walk.  I'd feel embarrassed if I was a teammate of his last year, with him constantly calling guys out but never cementing his words on the court, aside from when we played Charlotte.  I just think that, when it comes to Wallace, less is more and none is perfect! ;D

Actually, Terry was fantastic when he was "here" -- as in, in the Garden.

He was just terrible on the _road_.

Terry's home/road splits were ridiculous as a Celtic:

home:  48.7% FG%, 42.7% 3PT%, 112 ORtg, 104 DRtg.
road:  37.5% FG%, 31.3% 3PT%, 96 ORtg, 112 DRtg.

The top line is a fantastic one.   The bottom line is just miserable.

Terry's weird, extreme road/splits actually started the season before, in Dallas.    Before that, he wasn't especially different home vs road.   This last year, in Brooklyn, he mostly returned to 'normal'.

Hey, TP for the stats.  I just went on basketballreference.com to see all of his splits for 12-13 (not that I doubted your information, of course), and was pretty shocked at the disparity between his home and away play. 

Look, part of the reason why that whole thing didn't work was fit, because Doc used him like Ray Allen, when that's just not who Terry is as a player.  Sure, he can come off screens, but he really needs the ball in his hands to be effective.  Ironically, in the final 3 games of the series against the Knicks, he played much better because he went back to playing like he did in Dallas (style wise, at least).  There's no denying though, that the guy was a lemon.  I think he's probably in the top 2 for Danny's worst signings, because of what he was expected to do.  In fairness, though, he didn't nearly get the minutes or shot attempts that he did in Dallas, but he still sucked, especially on defense.  If he had been added in addition to Ray Allen - fine.  As his replacement, though - absolutely not, and I think we all saw how much better Ray was than Terry on opening night, and how much better off we would have been if we had just signed Barbosa.  Now that guy was great, on both ends, 5 years younger, and was had for a fraction of the cost. 

By the way, when you say that Terry, "returned to normal," do you mean that he returned to being equally horrible on the road and at home, because he is DONE.  Maybe he's one of those guys who only plays his best for one team, like Vinnie Johnson, Ben Gordon, and Ben Wallace, respectively.  He should go back to Dallas.  Maybe that will rejuvenate what's left of, "the jet." ::)

Sorry for the rant, btw.

Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2014, 08:51:29 PM »

Offline Mazingerz

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1st unit:

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Sully
Zeller

2nd unit:

Smart
Thornton
Turner
Bass
KO

3rd unit:

Pressey
Young
Wallace
Faverani
?
Peavey Bass Player - relearning to play after 10 years sucks;

Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2014, 08:52:18 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Rondo/Bradley/Turner/Sully/Zeller

Smart first one off bench.

I'd like to see this lineup, too.

Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2014, 09:03:15 PM »

fitzhickey

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1st unit:

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Sully
Zeller

2nd unit:

Smart
Thornton
Turner
Bass
KO

3rd unit:

Pressey
Young
Wallace
Faverani
?
this is what I hope to see, and expect to see.

Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2014, 09:06:53 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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If anything you should hope Turner and/or Smart start because this could mean

1.) Ainge got a good trade out of AB and/or Green;

Or better yet

2.) Smart and/or Turner have been incredible in practice.

I hope Turner does good.

Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2014, 09:10:43 PM »

Offline cltc5

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1st unit:

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Sully
Zeller

2nd unit:

Smart
Thornton
Turner
Bass
KO

3rd unit:

Pressey
Young
Wallace
Faverani
?

looks good

Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2014, 11:50:47 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Barring a trade, I think Rondo-Bradley-Green are set as starters  Subjectively, I dislike that trio (although I like each individually), but I would be really interested to know what the stats say about that them together.  Although, not interested enough to look it up myself.   :P

It's a big frustrating fact, but covering all of the last two seasons, that trio has only managed to play on the floor together at the same time for just 303 minutes.  And most of that time, one or more of them has either been playing hobbled or recovering from injury.  Green coming back from heart surgery and missing a year.  Bradley coming back from double-shoulder surgery.  Rondo coming back from knee surgery.

Overall, during that span (which obviously includes a wide variety of front court pairs, though Bass, Sully & Hump have been the most frequent teammates) they've played generally on the positive side, with a NetRtg of +3.2 points per 100 possessions.

Interestingly, Rondo splits USG between Bradley and Green almost perfectly evenly,  with Avery getting a 22.0% USG% and Green getting 22.9%.  And all three have shot fairly efficiently, Avery taking 130 shots at an eFG of 47.3% and Green taking 129 shots at an eFG of exactly the same 47.3%!  Rondo only took 91 shots during that, but posted a healthy 50%.

Overall, the team's ORtg was 106.4 points per 100 possessions with those three, so that's pretty solid.

Defensively, it has been more mediocre, at 103.2.   However, given the bulk of those minutes have been with a distinct lack of height in the front-court (Bass/Sully/Hump), I suspect some of the blame belongs on the infamous 'lack of rim protection'.

In fact, the stats on opponent shot-types are pretty telling.  Whereas the total % share of opponent shots taken 'at rim' is modes, at just 29.5%, the conversion efficiency on those is on the high side.  In particular, the layup share is only 23.4%, but the conversion of those layups was 61.3%.  If I restrict the sample to just this year (removing the small 'KG effect') that layup conversion rate climbed to 63.9%.  (Also note, that even without KG, the share of layups didn't really change - just the conversion rate).

So, opponents weren't necessarily getting more of their shots inside against units with the RR+AB+JG, but when they got inside, they were converting at a high rate this year.  So that's really on Bass/Hump/Sully.   Olynyk also was partly to blame, but he only played 41 minutes with that perimeter trio.

Hmm.... side note - I just noticed that Tyler Zeller had very good rim protection numbers last year with Cleveland.  While he was on the floor for Cleveland last year, opponents only took 24.5% of their shots 'at rim', including just 18.2% as layups which were only converted at a 58.1% rate.  That's really good.  Now, Cleveland was very good at rim defense overall as a team, but without Zeller, they allowed 26.9% of opponent shots 'at rim' and their layup numbers rose to 20.2% & 60.3%.   So Zeller was definitely a plus defensive factor for them.

That bodes well.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 12:03:15 AM by mmmmm »
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Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2014, 12:00:24 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Wallace was such a beast, he's washed up now but you're really not doing him justice talking like that

Well, he's not doing himself any favors by talking like that, either.  I hate guys like him an Jason Terry, for the simple reason that they can't back up what they're saying on the court.  Terry was nothing but chatter when he was here, and then Lebron posterized him, in addition to 'the jet' being terrible while he was here.  If you're going to talk the talk, you'd better be able to walk the walk.  I'd feel embarrassed if I was a teammate of his last year, with him constantly calling guys out but never cementing his words on the court, aside from when we played Charlotte.  I just think that, when it comes to Wallace, less is more and none is perfect! ;D

Actually, Terry was fantastic when he was "here" -- as in, in the Garden.

He was just terrible on the _road_.

Terry's home/road splits were ridiculous as a Celtic:

home:  48.7% FG%, 42.7% 3PT%, 112 ORtg, 104 DRtg.
road:  37.5% FG%, 31.3% 3PT%, 96 ORtg, 112 DRtg.

The top line is a fantastic one.   The bottom line is just miserable.

Terry's weird, extreme road/splits actually started the season before, in Dallas.    Before that, he wasn't especially different home vs road.   This last year, in Brooklyn, he mostly returned to 'normal'.

Hey, TP for the stats.  I just went on basketballreference.com to see all of his splits for 12-13 (not that I doubted your information, of course), and was pretty shocked at the disparity between his home and away play. 

Look, part of the reason why that whole thing didn't work was fit, because Doc used him like Ray Allen, when that's just not who Terry is as a player.  Sure, he can come off screens, but he really needs the ball in his hands to be effective.  ..... 

By the way, when you say that Terry, "returned to normal," do you mean ...

While I agree that Terry is a different style of player from Ray Allen, I don't think the evidence supports that the problem was with how he was used by Doc.  I don't think Doc used Terry any differently in the offense at home than he did on the road.  And I don't think Doc had anything to do with how Terry was used in his final season at Dallas, which is when his bizarre extreme home/road splits started.

I think that, for whatever reason (age, mental issue, better rest sleeping in his own bed, whatever) Terry just morphed for those two seasons into a very poor road player.

By 'returning to normal' this last year I meant that his home/road splits converged and no longer were wildly different.  Yeah, they weren't great.  I don't think Terry is completely "done", but he's a bench role player at best now.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: What starting lineup would you like to see on opening night?
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2014, 01:32:39 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Wallace was such a beast, he's washed up now but you're really not doing him justice talking like that

Well, he's not doing himself any favors by talking like that, either.  I hate guys like him an Jason Terry, for the simple reason that they can't back up what they're saying on the court.  Terry was nothing but chatter when he was here, and then Lebron posterized him, in addition to 'the jet' being terrible while he was here.  If you're going to talk the talk, you'd better be able to walk the walk.  I'd feel embarrassed if I was a teammate of his last year, with him constantly calling guys out but never cementing his words on the court, aside from when we played Charlotte.  I just think that, when it comes to Wallace, less is more and none is perfect! ;D

Actually, Terry was fantastic when he was "here" -- as in, in the Garden.

He was just terrible on the _road_.

Terry's home/road splits were ridiculous as a Celtic:

home:  48.7% FG%, 42.7% 3PT%, 112 ORtg, 104 DRtg.
road:  37.5% FG%, 31.3% 3PT%, 96 ORtg, 112 DRtg.

The top line is a fantastic one.   The bottom line is just miserable.

Terry's weird, extreme road/splits actually started the season before, in Dallas.    Before that, he wasn't especially different home vs road.   This last year, in Brooklyn, he mostly returned to 'normal'.

Hey, TP for the stats.  I just went on basketballreference.com to see all of his splits for 12-13 (not that I doubted your information, of course), and was pretty shocked at the disparity between his home and away play. 

Look, part of the reason why that whole thing didn't work was fit, because Doc used him like Ray Allen, when that's just not who Terry is as a player.  Sure, he can come off screens, but he really needs the ball in his hands to be effective.  ..... 

By the way, when you say that Terry, "returned to normal," do you mean ...

While I agree that Terry is a different style of player from Ray Allen, I don't think the evidence supports that the problem was with how he was used by Doc.  I don't think Doc used Terry any differently in the offense at home than he did on the road.  And I don't think Doc had anything to do with how Terry was used in his final season at Dallas, which is when his bizarre extreme home/road splits started.

I think that, for whatever reason (age, mental issue, better rest sleeping in his own bed, whatever) Terry just morphed for those two seasons into a very poor road player.

By 'returning to normal' this last year I meant that his home/road splits converged and no longer were wildly different.  Yeah, they weren't great.  I don't think Terry is completely "done", but he's a bench role player at best now.

I understand that.  However, all you have to do is look at the per game numbers from 11-12 and 12-13 to see that he was being used very differently in Boston as opposed to his role on the Mavericks.  He played, on average, almost 5 fewer minutes and took 5 fewer shots per game as a Celtic in 12-13, despite starting 24 contests (as opposed to just 1 in 11-12).  That's what I mean.  I was hoping that he'd play like, well, himself, but it never happened.  Lastly, he's pretty much always been a bench player, and a great one, at that, over his career, so I don't think that that's such a step down for him.  I think we'd both agree that he's definitely no longer the contributor he used to be, though.