Author Topic: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs  (Read 11146 times)

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Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2014, 04:27:21 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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A quick reminder:

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The staff may lock or delete any thread, for any reason.  Threads that involve illegal or particularly inflammatory topics, such as abortion, legalization of drugs, or 9/11 conspiracy theories will be locked on a preemptive basis.

Lets not go so OT to lock this thread.

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2014, 04:34:54 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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I hope someday we will realize that we legislate morality.   Everytime we have tried to curb behaviors with the moral best interest bad things happen.   It didn't end drinking during prohibition, it didn't end prostitution and it sure as heck didn't stop drugs.

Well, it hasn't stopped murder, rape, assault or theft, either.  I'm not sure that that means we give up.
murder, rape, assault, theft, etc. are not what you would call morality legislation as those have victims.  the victimless crimes, like drug use and prostitution, are what you would call morality legislation and are clearly not the same thing.  I know you know this.

Drugs are far from a victimless crime.  I know you know this.

I do not know that.

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2014, 04:49:54 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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TP to the op for posting this.  The bottom line here, sadly, seems to be that it's all about quotas.  Don't get me started on that zero tolerance bullEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., especially because we are now, essentially, a zero tolerance society.  That cop should be stripped of his job and benefits, in addition to be being permanently banned from ever being able to serve in any role of law enforcement for the rest of his life, and I hope that he rots in hell.  Don't get me started on the stigma associated with special needs kids and others with mental health problems.  It's ridiculous and beyond disgusting.  I know at least a few people who have similar issues, and guess what, they're great, normal kids, but the societal stigma associated with kids like Jessie is, quite frankly, intolerable, and I have zero tolerance for such monsters who use and look down on these people, who are no different from you nor I.  I especially hate the assclowns who post on facebook about, "stopping the r-word," and then do nothing about it, except to use this issue to further their agenda, the prime example being the people, predominately girls, who take kids with down syndrome to the prom, only to upload the photos onto facebook etc, saying, "I took so-and-so to the prom because they didn't have a date.  Am I not the most amazing person in the world?  Please, sniff my poop, if you will - there is no smell."  It's almost like they do such things just to be able to get into their top college.  Are your grades and SAT scores just a little off, despite your numerous extracurricular activities?  Well, then do I have a solution for you...There's a special place in hell for people like that.  Sorry for the rant, this is very upsetting.  And yes, to the officers of that police operation - you just personified entrapment. 

There is one important question here that needs answering, however - if someone was constantly bugging you for drugs, why not, instead of succumbing to the constant nagging, say no, and then report that individual to your guidance counselor, administration officials, teachers, etc, because obviously someone has a problem that needs to be addressed.  Even if they weren't cops, wouldn't you be concerned enough for their well being to at least try to do something about it?  Why didn't the parents step in and say that something is wrong.  They had the texts that, imo, could easily be classified as harassment.  Again, it's just something to think about, because those parents could have, and should have, done much more in that situation, imo.

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2014, 04:49:55 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Back on topic: I do think there should be some sort of preemptive legislation (OMG BIG BROTHER FREEDOMHATER) regarding mental deficiencies and entrapment-style scenarios.

edit to reply to BeatLA;

A) I can think of few scarlet letters more [dang]ing for a high school student than to that of the 'narc.' Especially one who is trying his or her hardest to fit in.

B) That's a sort of mental acuity and depth that isn't necessarily available to either people with mental disabilities or teenagers in general (a pair of groups that can be mistaken for each other, to be sure)

I do agree with you, by the way, that the way most people of normal intelligence treat people who are not is disgusting.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 04:58:37 PM by D.o.s. »
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Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2014, 05:26:48 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Back on topic: I do think there should be some sort of preemptive legislation (OMG BIG BROTHER FREEDOMHATER) regarding mental deficiencies and entrapment-style scenarios.

edit to reply to BeatLA;

A) I can think of few scarlet letters more [dang]ing for a high school student than to that of the 'narc.' Especially one who is trying his or her hardest to fit in.

B) That's a sort of mental acuity and depth that isn't necessarily available to either people with mental disabilities or teenagers in general (a pair of groups that can be mistaken for each other, to be sure)

I do agree with you, by the way, that the way most people of normal intelligence treat people who are not is disgusting.

I'm well aware of that, but I do think that the parents could have provided such knowledge and guidance in such a situation.  I also agree with the whole snitch thing, as I figured that someone would comment on that.  I would definitely be conflicted, not because such a decision could help someone who needs it, but because they may never trust me again and we might stop being friends.  However, I look at it like this - if you're in a position to help in any way, no matter how significant, and do nothing and then something terrible happens, I could never live with myself.  I would much rather have that person be alive and hating me than them dying from suicide, etc.  You see what I mean, right?  Ultimately, their life is much more important than alternative of being hated by them.  In time, that attitude may very well change. 

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2014, 05:41:12 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Agreed entirely -- I, and I assume others on this board, have had friends die via drug use, intentionally and unintentionally. It sucks. No way around that.

On the other hand, this is pot that we're talking about, and it goes back to being a teenager again: mortality isn't something that's a common subject of though, generally speaking. Especially when the substance in question is, you know, going to be rolled into a joint and used in conjunction with some (probably terrible) music at a party or something.

In other words: 'No friend, don't do the pot, do you need help? I should tell your parents' is not a typical train of thought. At least it wasn't for me vis a vie the people I knew that smoked while I was in high school.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2014, 06:06:59 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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As a police officer and supporter of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, I'm well aware of the many unintended consequences that stem from the never ending, dangerous and unwinnable, War On Drugs. Fortunately for all us, the number of people who care and understand is growing exponentially. Unfortunately, this topic will likley be locked as it is against CelticsBlog rules.

TP for the post, and know that there are many on the inside that cringe at these type of stories.

TP for you, i know there are cops out there with compassion. too often it seems like law enforcement has become just another Big Industry, an industry enabled by hard-line ideologue lawmakers who are out of touch with the realities of their less-fortunate constituents.

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2014, 06:10:01 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The only hard line for the lawmakers in this instance is that they're very eager to take the money that the prison industry will give them.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2014, 06:13:17 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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106,000 + murdered in the war in mexico in the last decade. millions of families displaced. mexico is our neighbor, and it is falling apart. for some reason this barely gets coverage in the news. incredible.

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2014, 06:17:01 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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The only hard line for the lawmakers in this instance is that they're very eager to take the money that the prison industry will give them.

yep, throw everyone in jail, instead of fixing the underlying socio-economic problems. then, after legal fees, the jail experience, and the albatross of having felonies on their record, they get more screwed up then they ever were beforehand. Good Times.

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2014, 06:46:23 PM »

Online JSD

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I hope someday we will realize that we legislate morality.   Everytime we have tried to curb behaviors with the moral best interest bad things happen.   It didn't end drinking during prohibition, it didn't end prostitution and it sure as heck didn't stop drugs.

Well, it hasn't stopped murder, rape, assault or theft, either.  I'm not sure that that means we give up.
murder, rape, assault, theft, etc. are not what you would call morality legislation as those have victims.  the victimless crimes, like drug use and prostitution, are what you would call morality legislation and are clearly not the same thing.  I know you know this.

Drugs are far from a victimless crime.  I know you know this.

Our system of enforcement is creating more victims and is doing more harm to families, communities, and neighborhoods than the most powerful drugs on the market. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world, which has nearly quadrupled since the War on Drugs was introduced in the 1970's, and if that's not enough damage done to families, how about the cost of housing all of these offenders? Wouldn't over $20 Billion (So far spent in 2014) be far better served in medical rehabilitation, our schools, or towards infrastructure? All that aside, it's most important to note that the war is an abject failure. Just as many people are using as before, there's just way more people in prison and way more injured or killed cops. It's time to try something different.
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Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2014, 07:23:54 PM »

Offline mgent

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Every cop is crooked until proven otherwise, in my eyes.

Amen.

I think that's the same type of thinking that gets these 21 Jump Street operations green lit.  "Every teenager is a druggie / deal until proven otherwise".
The truth is that every teenager living in a city could probably easily find you drugs in their high school.

As we obviously know, that doesn't make them druggies or dealers.

But that's what these 21 Jump Street operations are really for.  They're never going to take down the popular kid who leads the drug ring and probably never even touches the product.  According to this operation, all they're doing is arresting kids who know drug dealers.  I mean, did you see the part about the non-autistic kid?  He arranged the meeting, another kid brought the marijuana and put it in front of narc, then the narc forced the middle man to touch it before him so he could pick up the charge.

This is much closer to entrapment than any other drug or prostitution stings I've heard of.
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Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2014, 09:35:08 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Well, it hasn't stopped murder, rape, assault or theft, either.  I'm not sure that that means we give up.

These above cases  violate the person or the property of others, I think.   I am not saying drugs are without harm because they steal from others and murder to get them in some cases.   They overdose, and hurt themselves too but that is different from violating the property or body of others wouldn't you say?  These are also violent in nature, I would think you could discern this difference.

I don't think you can legislate what is moral in terms of a choice what to do with your body.   A DUI is drinking but when you get in a car your placing others at risk.   I do not support someone raping or murdering others because they affect others.  I am an atheist and do not care about morality or controlling the actions of others when it is harm to self.   I have and had no problem with gay marriage because I do not put morals into the equation.    Was it right to legislate them with the DOMA?

I do care about an orderly society.   When someone uses I don't but if they steal to support their habit or their usage causes high risk behaviors to others then I think we should hammer them.  It doesn't make me right it is my opinion that is all. 

I have been to countries where a lot of the drugs are decriminalized and stuff like prostitution is legal and regulated by the government and I think they have less crime as a result.  They also probably get tax revenue.

No system is perfect, not ours, not their,s but I do know that we have for profit prisons here that make a mint off our system.   We have non violent guys locked for more years than murderers in some cases.    These prisons spent  over 45 million lobbying.   Is that right for a society that supposedly built on freedom?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/06/23/251363/cca-geogroup-prison-industry/
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 04:41:10 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2014, 10:10:29 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Back on topic: I do think there should be some sort of preemptive legislation (OMG BIG BROTHER FREEDOMHATER) regarding mental deficiencies and entrapment-style scenarios.

edit to reply to BeatLA;

A) I can think of few scarlet letters more [dang]ing for a high school student than to that of the 'narc.' Especially one who is trying his or her hardest to fit in.

B) That's a sort of mental acuity and depth that isn't necessarily available to either people with mental disabilities or teenagers in general (a pair of groups that can be mistaken for each other, to be sure)

I do agree with you, by the way, that the way most people of normal intelligence treat people who are not is disgusting.

I'm well aware of that, but I do think that the parents could have provided such knowledge and guidance in such a situation.  I also agree with the whole snitch thing, as I figured that someone would comment on that.  I would definitely be conflicted, not because such a decision could help someone who needs it, but because they may never trust me again and we might stop being friends.  However, I look at it like this - if you're in a position to help in any way, no matter how significant, and do nothing and then something terrible happens, I could never live with myself.  I would much rather have that person be alive and hating me than them dying from suicide, etc.  You see what I mean, right?  Ultimately, their life is much more important than alternative of being hated by them.  In time, that attitude may very well change.


It was MJ, what type of help would you be getting for him exactly? If it was something like the stuff I can't talk about here, I would agree. It was the only friend their son had, why call the authorities and have him lose his friend over a little MJ? You see what it has done to him just from losing the friend, imagine how he'd be knowing his parents were the reason he lost the friend. Would he then be mad and withdraw from his parents? I guess they could have told the son not to do it b/c it's illegal but as far as calling the cops or something else, that's extreme.

It may be desperate to do anything to keep a friend or for your parents to allow it but I'm not in their situation. I know I don't consider this something I would make my child lose the only friend he has over it.


About the cop who did this, he is sick and twisted and that's all I will say b/c that's what I'm allowed to.

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Re: UndrcoverCop tricks autistic student into selling drugs
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2014, 05:22:39 PM »

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I hope someday we will realize that we legislate morality.   Everytime we have tried to curb behaviors with the moral best interest bad things happen.   It didn't end drinking during prohibition, it didn't end prostitution and it sure as heck didn't stop drugs.

Well, it hasn't stopped murder, rape, assault or theft, either.  I'm not sure that that means we give up.
murder, rape, assault, theft, etc. are not what you would call morality legislation as those have victims.  the victimless crimes, like drug use and prostitution, are what you would call morality legislation and are clearly not the same thing.  I know you know this.

Drugs are far from a victimless crime.  I know you know this.
really who is the victim of the high school kid that smokes some marijuana on the weekend.

Sure there are sometime consequences that have victims, but the actual drug use is a victimless crime, same with prostitution.
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