Cleveland looking for nonguaranteed contracts; Chance to trade Bogans?

[Roy H.]

If Cleveland is attempting to acquire non-guaranteed salary to include in a deal for Love, it is, most likely, because they are essentially trying to trade Love for Wiggins straight up, but the salaries won’t match.  If they were to trade Love for Wiggins (30 days after Wiggins signed his contract), they would need to send an additional $5.2 million if such a trade would leave Cleveland under the luxury tax (which, given their current roster, it would), or an additional $7 million if such a trade would leave Cleveland over the luxury tax (possible if they add another vet or two between now and then).  There are no players on Cleveland’s current roster who isn’t a veteran (and thus someone LeBron wants to stay, namely Varejao) that can make up that $7 million difference, and only one who can make up the $5.2 million difference – Anthony Bennett.  While Bennett was relatively disappointing for a #1 overall pick, he still has positive value, and it makes sense they would balk at Minnesota demanding both Wiggins and Bennett.  But since the deal won’t work due to the CBA without Bennett, Minnesota gets to keep asking for the pair.

So Cleveland needs to come up with $5.2 million in non-guaranteed contracts, so they can offer Wiggins and the filler for Love.  These contracts need to stay non-guaranteed until at least 60 days from when they are acquired, as that is the earliest these contracts can be added into a deal for Love.  Furthermore, Cleveland doesn’t have much, if any, cap room left, so these contracts, for the most part, need to be for the minimum salary, since you’re allowed to take on as many minimum contracts as you want (as long as you’re not breaking some other rule about roster size or the hard cap).  Below is a list of contracts, by team, that meet the following requirements:

1)   Cleveland can acquire them (are a minimum salary, has enough cap room (less than $2 million,) didn’t recently trade them like Henry Sims)
2)   Are completely non-guaranteed through October 1st
3)   Are not a player that the current team values highly (like Patrick Beverly), as those aren’t the right kind of players to use as simply salary filler

(All data from shamsports)

Boston: Chris Johnson ($915,243), Chris Babb ($816,482) – Total: $1,732,725
Brooklyn: Jorge Gutierrez ($816,482)
Houston: Josh Powell ($1,310,286)
Milwaukee: Chris Wright ($915,243)
Orlando: Dewayne Dedmon ($816,482)
Philadelphia: Casper Ware ($816,482), Hollis Thompson ($816,482), Brandon Davies ($816,482), Elliot Williams ($981,084) – Total: $3,430,530
Toronto: Diante Garret ($915,243)
Utah: Malcolm Thomas ($948,163), John Lucas III ($1,600,000) – Total: $2,548,163
(Note: John Lucas III may make too much to fit in Cleveland’s cap room, since he’s not a minimum salary player.)

Anyway, we either have the second or third most amount of non-guaranteed salary for Cleveland to use.  However, our non-guaranteed plus Philly’s still does not get Cleveland to the magic number of $5.2 million – they’re short by under $100k.  Philly also has Jarvis Varnado, who has $75k of his $915,243 salary guaranteed – that’s a nominal sum that probably gets made up by a team sending the other cash.  Accordingly, Cleveland probably does best if they acquire all of Philly’s and Utah’s non-guaranteed deals, but if they can’t absorb Lucas, taking Babb and Johnson plus all of Philly’s (including Varnado’s) would work for them too.  It likely would cost them some second round picks to encourage the teams to play along.

Very good post.  On other caveat: none of the teams involved can acquire more than the summer roster limit of 20 players. It shouldn't be a huge issue, but it's something to keep in mind when bundling so many contracts.

[nicknorman]

That's what I don't get about Minny demanding Klay Thompson. To me he seems like more of a liability if you're going to have to pay him near max money after one season. Wiggins for 4 seasons as an experiment seems like a much better gamble.

Does Minny realize they are going to have the same trouble signing Thompson next season that they are now having with Love.

Well, Thompson's going to be an RFA, so they would control the process. But yeah, given the market for wings these days, they'd likely have to overpay to keep him. So the Wiggins deal makes more sense, especially since it signals they've given up on the moronic idea that they can compete without Love.

Thompson is eligible to sign an extension this summer.  He wants the max and Minnesota seems willing to give it to him.  They can make the trade with an agreement to give Thompson the max extension the way Houston traded for James Harden.

If Minnesota is really considering doing that, than Filp should be fired. A team of maxed out Rubio and maxed out Thompson is at best the 10th best team in the West. They are already overpaying Martin and Pek, and this will destroy any flexibility they have.

Sullinger or Olynk would be better options than maxing out Thompson. But of course Flip has issues with Danny for whatever reason. That team is a train wreck.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Essentially it's like this: Cleveland can trade Wiggins straight up to Minny for Love.  Both sides would do that. However, the salaries don't work.  If they added Bennett or Thompson it would work, but Cleveland doesn't want to give up Wiggins and one of those other guys.  So Cleveland needs to acquire about $5 million in unguaranteed contracts to fill in the salary requirements for a trade.  Because you can always trade for minimum salary players, Cleveland will be looking for a lot of those.  So Babb and Johnson make sense, but Bogans doesn't.  They're probably willing to send of a second round pick or two to acquire the salaries they need.

The deal for Love would then be completed 60 days after they acquired their minimum salaries.  It's also low-risk for Cleveland, because they don't lose much if the Love deal doesn't end up happening (as opposed to giving up Waiters to get Bogans, for example).

I'd have to wonder what they would think if we included someone like Young in the deal to make up for them giving up Waiters (and stop us from going over 15 guaranteed contracts)

Something like Bogans/Young/(Maybe a late round pick?  Give them their pick back?) for Waiters?

I know theres always a chance even a strong chance that first rounders don't work out. but I like James Young and want to at least give him a shot.

[Endless Paradise]

Cavs just traded Carrick Felix, $1 million, and a second rounder for the Utah package (JL3, Thomas, and Erik Murphy).

[Jiri Welsch]

Cavs just traded Carrick Felix, $1 million, and a second rounder for the Utah package (JL3, Thomas, and Erik Murphy).

Dang. Looking at what Utah got in return, I guess it's not a big deal.

[Endless Paradise]

Well, they just got a free second rounder for three guys they had to cut by August, anyway.  Surprised they only got a second rounder out of it, but I guess the Cavs realized Utah didn't have a huge amount of leverage since they would've just had to cut those guys.  Might as well get something for those guys.

[LarBrd33]

If Cleveland is attempting to acquire non-guaranteed salary to include in a deal for Love, it is, most likely, because they are essentially trying to trade Love for Wiggins straight up, but the salaries won’t match.  If they were to trade Love for Wiggins (30 days after Wiggins signed his contract), they would need to send an additional $5.2 million if such a trade would leave Cleveland under the luxury tax (which, given their current roster, it would), or an additional $7 million if such a trade would leave Cleveland over the luxury tax (possible if they add another vet or two between now and then).  There are no players on Cleveland’s current roster who isn’t a veteran (and thus someone LeBron wants to stay, namely Varejao) that can make up that $7 million difference, and only one who can make up the $5.2 million difference – Anthony Bennett.  While Bennett was relatively disappointing for a #1 overall pick, he still has positive value, and it makes sense they would balk at Minnesota demanding both Wiggins and Bennett.  But since the deal won’t work due to the CBA without Bennett, Minnesota gets to keep asking for the pair.

So Cleveland needs to come up with $5.2 million in non-guaranteed contracts, so they can offer Wiggins and the filler for Love.  These contracts need to stay non-guaranteed until at least 60 days from when they are acquired, as that is the earliest these contracts can be added into a deal for Love.  Furthermore, Cleveland doesn’t have much, if any, cap room left, so these contracts, for the most part, need to be for the minimum salary, since you’re allowed to take on as many minimum contracts as you want (as long as you’re not breaking some other rule about roster size or the hard cap).  Below is a list of contracts, by team, that meet the following requirements:

1)   Cleveland can acquire them (are a minimum salary, has enough cap room (less than $2 million,) didn’t recently trade them like Henry Sims)
2)   Are completely non-guaranteed through October 1st
3)   Are not a player that the current team values highly (like Patrick Beverly), as those aren’t the right kind of players to use as simply salary filler

(All data from shamsports)

Boston: Chris Johnson ($915,243), Chris Babb ($816,482) – Total: $1,732,725
Brooklyn: Jorge Gutierrez ($816,482)
Houston: Josh Powell ($1,310,286)
Milwaukee: Chris Wright ($915,243)
Orlando: Dewayne Dedmon ($816,482)
Philadelphia: Casper Ware ($816,482), Hollis Thompson ($816,482), Brandon Davies ($816,482), Elliot Williams ($981,084) – Total: $3,430,530
Toronto: Diante Garret ($915,243)
Utah: Malcolm Thomas ($948,163), John Lucas III ($1,600,000) – Total: $2,548,163
(Note: John Lucas III may make too much to fit in Cleveland’s cap room, since he’s not a minimum salary player.)

Anyway, we either have the second or third most amount of non-guaranteed salary for Cleveland to use.  However, our non-guaranteed plus Philly’s still does not get Cleveland to the magic number of $5.2 million – they’re short by under $100k.  Philly also has Jarvis Varnado, who has $75k of his $915,243 salary guaranteed – that’s a nominal sum that probably gets made up by a team sending the other cash.  Accordingly, Cleveland probably does best if they acquire all of Philly’s and Utah’s non-guaranteed deals, but if they can’t absorb Lucas, taking Babb and Johnson plus all of Philly’s (including Varnado’s) would work for them too.  It likely would cost them some second round picks to encourage the teams to play along.

Nailed it.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234391/Cavaliers-Acquire-Three-Non-Guaranteed-Contracts-From-Jazz

The Utah Jazz will trade John Lucas, Malcolm Thomas and Erik Murphy to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Carrick Felix, a future second round pick and $1 million in cash.

The Cavaliers have been searching for non-guaranteed contracts in order to flip them to the Minnesota Timberwolves in a deal involving Kevin Love.

The Wolves are seeking cap relief along with Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett in exchange for Love.

So how soon until the Cavs can re-trade those assets to the Wolves?  Cuz that' show long we have to sit here and pretend like Love to the Cavs isn't in the bag.

[saltlover]

60 days LB.  If they need the $5.2 mil like I described, there may be another move  they have to make.  This has given them about $3.4 mil non-guaranteed.

[Cman]

60 days LB.  If they need the $5.2 mil like I described, there may be another move  they have to make.  This has given them about $3.4 mil non-guaranteed.

Another TP. As LB says, you totally nailed it.

And Love is headed to Cleveland and Wiggins to Minn.  There's no doubt in my mind now.

I guess this means good bye to all the Love trade ideas and hello to even more Josh Smith trade ideas.

[droopdog7]

That's what I don't get about Minny demanding Klay Thompson. To me he seems like more of a liability if you're going to have to pay him near max money after one season. Wiggins for 4 seasons as an experiment seems like a much better gamble.

Does Minny realize they are going to have the same trouble signing Thompson next season that they are now having with Love.

Well, Thompson's going to be an RFA, so they would control the process. But yeah, given the market for wings these days, they'd likely have to overpay to keep him. So the Wiggins deal makes more sense, especially since it signals they've given up on the moronic idea that they can compete without Love.

Thompson is eligible to sign an extension this summer.  He wants the max and Minnesota seems willing to give it to him.  They can make the trade with an agreement to give Thompson the max extension the way Houston traded for James Harden.

If Minnesota is really considering doing that, than Filp should be fired. A team of maxed out Rubio and maxed out Thompson is at best the 10th best team in the West. They are already overpaying Martin and Pek, and this will destroy any flexibility they have.

Sullinger or Olynk would be better options than maxing out Thompson. But of course Flip has issues with Danny for whatever reason. That team is a train wreck.

While this comment is probably irrelevant, I disagree.  If Thompson leaves GS, I see a harden-type breakout.  I think he averages 25/pts a game and is an all star.  In fact, I think there is a chance thompson could be a better player than wiggins will ever be.  Or at least, he is the safer bet.

[Rondo9]

60 days LB.  If they need the $5.2 mil like I described, there may be another move  they have to make.  This has given them about $3.4 mil non-guaranteed.

Another TP. As LB says, you totally nailed it.

And Love is headed to Cleveland and Wiggins to Minn.  There's no doubt in my mind now.

I guess this means good bye to all the Love trade ideas and hello to even more Josh Smith trade ideas.

I still have a feeling they'll both find a way to mess it up.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Honestly, I'm not worried about Love in Cleveland from a vs. Celtics standpoint. All told, we match-up against them very well.

[Rondo9]

Yeah if they had Wiggins and Irving I'll be worried.

[D.o.s.]

Yeah if they had Wiggins and Irving I'll be worried.

it only seems right to send Maple Jordan to the icy tundra.

[86MaxwellSmart]

60 days LB.  If they need the $5.2 mil like I described, there may be another move  they have to make.  This has given them about $3.4 mil non-guaranteed.

Another TP. As LB says, you totally nailed it.

And Love is headed to Cleveland and Wiggins to Minn.  There's no doubt in my mind now.

I guess this means good bye to all the Love trade ideas and hello to even more Josh Smith trade ideas.

maybe Greg Monroe,Marc Gasol trade ideas....here we go.