Author Topic: Why don't people think we'll be better?  (Read 15772 times)

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Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2014, 06:57:17 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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this team has to be better. I think Rondo will be better, I don't care if people hate him, love him or whatever, he wasn't healthy last yr., he wasn't playing a normal schedule of games, he'll be better and we'll be better.

and I have to assume sully and olynyk will be better....if sully hasn't eaten his way outta the league between now and the start of the season.

but all of this doesn't really matter. last season we still had a legitimate shot at the playoffs I think with like 3 weeks to go in the season. and that's why i'm puzzled as to why we're loading this team with guys that will get us to the 8th seed?

in the east we could have 28 - 30 wins and make the playoffs. it's a bad time to be mediocre.

also every yr. there's always 1 or 2 teams that don't live up to the hype esp. in the east. again we could find ourselves in or close to the playoffs without even trying.

The bar for getting into the East last year, when the power was more concentrated, was 38 wins. I don't see where 30 wins gets us a spot this year.

I agree that we will be better than last year, but I don't think we're in danger of making the playoffs (which is an awful phrase to type).

in reality 30 wins shouldn't get us in the playoffs and it probably won't. the eastern teams 'should' be better, but then again there were teams last yr. that 'should've been better' in the east and they weren't.

but still, if 38 was the bar and we were 30 and still had a shot until like 3 - 4 weeks to go in the season. it's too close. we were a lottery team that could've made the playoffs. if we earned a playoff spot - then great. but making the playoffs because we're the better of the bad teams isn't the same as earning it.

  If you finish with a better record than enough teams to make the playoffs you've earned it.

if having a losing record and making the playoffs means "earning it" to you then you might be a happy guy next yr.

i'd rather be a bad team with a lottery pick to show for it than a bad team with nothing to show for it.

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2014, 06:57:50 PM »

Online hwangjini_1

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I think we win 25 games or so.  Just the way I see it.  I see Milwaukee as the only team clearly worse than Boston in the East (though Orlando and Philly certainly could be).

You don't think having Rondo alone for an entire season vs. the few games we had him for is worth a few more wins?

I see them as a 30 win team and that is thought of this thread...never said playoff...just think they have more depth and Rondo for a full year and should win a handful more games because of it.
hate to say it again, but both the season rondo was injured and after he came back, the celtics had better winning percentages WITHOUT him than with him. i dont automatically assume he adds many wins to this team. i hope he does, but let's see.
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Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2014, 07:04:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think we win 25 games or so.  Just the way I see it.  I see Milwaukee as the only team clearly worse than Boston in the East (though Orlando and Philly certainly could be).

You don't think having Rondo alone for an entire season vs. the few games we had him for is worth a few more wins?

I see them as a 30 win team and that is thought of this thread...never said playoff...just think they have more depth and Rondo for a full year and should win a handful more games because of it.
hate to say it again, but both the season rondo was injured and after he came back, the celtics had better winning percentages WITHOUT him than with him. i dont automatically assume he adds many wins to this team. i hope he does, but let's see.
Yeah TP. I am as big a Rondo fan as any on this site and even I have to admit that the statistical evidence mounting that shows this team having more win loss success without Rondo is starting to concern me and needs to be taken into consideration when just arbitrarily stating adding Rondo healthy means more wins. It might not mean that anymore.

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2014, 07:05:58 PM »

Offline CeltsAcumen

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I do think the Celts will be better, but the definition of "better" is in dispute.

The Celts will be a lottery team, but they will improve.

I have a simple rule with my three teams I cheer for, Celts, Red Sox and UNC.  Win a championship and I do not complain for 5 years and as long as things are going in a positive direction, I do not get mad for 10 years after.

Right now I think the Celts are going in a positive direction, so I cannot get too worked up, according to my rule, for another 3-4 years.

you can imagine how p---ed off I was when the Sox hadnt won fro 86 years...

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2014, 07:20:35 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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I think we win 25 games or so.  Just the way I see it.  I see Milwaukee as the only team clearly worse than Boston in the East (though Orlando and Philly certainly could be).

You don't think having Rondo alone for an entire season vs. the few games we had him for is worth a few more wins?

I see them as a 30 win team and that is thought of this thread...never said playoff...just think they have more depth and Rondo for a full year and should win a handful more games because of it.
hate to say it again, but both the season rondo was injured and after he came back, the celtics had better winning percentages WITHOUT him than with him. i dont automatically assume he adds many wins to this team. i hope he does, but let's see.
Yeah TP. I am as big a Rondo fan as any on this site and even I have to admit that the statistical evidence mounting that shows this team having more win loss success without Rondo is starting to concern me and needs to be taken into consideration when just arbitrarily stating adding Rondo healthy means more wins. It might not mean that anymore.

So this is somehow Rondo's fault that the Celtics are always bad to mediocre.  Then Rondo should leave then.......

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2014, 07:28:53 PM »

Offline DraftSmart33

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1. Adding rookies doesn't tend to make you better right away when you are a bad team. So I don't care if Smart and Young were added to the team that doiesn't make this team better next year because of them, it makes the team next year worse and the future better.

2. This team, if injuries occur, and they will, is not deep in talent and will suffer greatly when injuries to players happen.

3. I lot of the idea of us getting better is that the young players will get better and add more to the team. Many times, that doesn't happen. For all we know the best years of Sully and KO may have already happened. Probably not but it happens sometimes that young players don't progress a bunch every single year.  We might get stagnation

4. The team is still horribly unbalanced with no real starting center, three PFs that will vie to be the starter, and a raft of guards. The team has no center, no star, no go to scorer, it lacks great outside shooting and rebounding and its defense at the end of last year look atrocious after looking so good to start the year.


I see maybe a mild uptick in wins, 3-5, as a possibility but they could easily be worse as well. We will see.
1. I think it depends who the rookies are replacing. I expect Young to get Johnson's minutes which should be a wash. I expect Smart to get most of Bayless, minutes which I think will be an improvement.
2. We dealt with a lot of injuries last year and aren't we deeper than last year?
3. Even though players don't improve all the time, they are more likely to improve than regress at a young age. It stands to reason that at least one of Olynyk or Sullinger will improve.
4. Certainly unbalanced can't argue that, but i'm still hoping they make a bid to add another center.

I think they will be ten games better than last year. If Rondo matches his peak season he will be good for seven more wins on his own.
All very fair retorts.

I would say I think Young and Smart would be worse than the players they are replacing, even the ones you mentioned. Agree to disagree there. As for injuries, all in all I thought we were fairly healthy last year except for Rondo. That makes a big difference but if this year more than one starter goes down for more than half the season, that would be bad and no, I don't think we are deeper than last year. Only about the same. I also hope we land a center, though I can't for the life of me see who that could be.

10 wins is possible but I also think that is maybe the most positive outlook one can have on this team. After all, you can only have so much evidence that the C's win more without Rondo than with him before you have to start giving that some credence. Adding a healthy Rondo might just be a bad thing.

You don't think they're deeper?  How?

Rondo Smart Pressey > Rondo Pressey
AB Turner Thornton Young > AB Bayless Brooks Babb
Green Turner Wallace Young > Green Wallace Johnson
Sullinger KO Bass = Sulllinger KO Bass
Zeller Anthony Faverani < Hump Anthony Faverani


Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2014, 07:34:57 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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1. Adding rookies doesn't tend to make you better right away when you are a bad team. So I don't care if Smart and Young were added to the team that doiesn't make this team better next year because of them, it makes the team next year worse and the future better.

2. This team, if injuries occur, and they will, is not deep in talent and will suffer greatly when injuries to players happen.

3. I lot of the idea of us getting better is that the young players will get better and add more to the team. Many times, that doesn't happen. For all we know the best years of Sully and KO may have already happened. Probably not but it happens sometimes that young players don't progress a bunch every single year.  We might get stagnation

4. The team is still horribly unbalanced with no real starting center, three PFs that will vie to be the starter, and a raft of guards. The team has no center, no star, no go to scorer, it lacks great outside shooting and rebounding and its defense at the end of last year look atrocious after looking so good to start the year.


I see maybe a mild uptick in wins, 3-5, as a possibility but they could easily be worse as well. We will see.

TP. This team is going to be difficult to watch. Again.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2014, 07:47:26 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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1. Adding rookies doesn't tend to make you better right away when you are a bad team. So I don't care if Smart and Young were added to the team that doiesn't make this team better next year because of them, it makes the team next year worse and the future better.

2. This team, if injuries occur, and they will, is not deep in talent and will suffer greatly when injuries to players happen.

3. I lot of the idea of us getting better is that the young players will get better and add more to the team. Many times, that doesn't happen. For all we know the best years of Sully and KO may have already happened. Probably not but it happens sometimes that young players don't progress a bunch every single year.  We might get stagnation

4. The team is still horribly unbalanced with no real starting center, three PFs that will vie to be the starter, and a raft of guards. The team has no center, no star, no go to scorer, it lacks great outside shooting and rebounding and its defense at the end of last year look atrocious after looking so good to start the year.


I see maybe a mild uptick in wins, 3-5, as a possibility but they could easily be worse as well. We will see.

TP. This team is going to be difficult to watch. Again.

I agree that this team is only likely to win a few more games (healthy Rondo should provide something).
As for difficulty to watch, I do expect it will be more fun to watch than last year.

I expect a multi-year rebuild so I am really not very disappointed.  Disappointment may come if a bad trade happens or if picks/young players don't pan out. But for now, it is about as good  as it can reasonably be.

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2014, 08:48:33 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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- Dwayne Wade took the Miami Heat in the playoffs in his rookie campaign. They finished 42-40 in the season. They became a championship contender the following season after they got Shaq.

- Damian Lilliard and Brandon Roy turned the franchise of Blazers right after they got drafted.
It took two season for Roy and one for Lilliard to compete in the playoffs. And guess what? Both are picked in the #6 spot. Maybe our own #6 and even #17 can do that.

That proves that Rookies don't make you better right away a myth. Some rookies have huge impact in the team. The way I saw Marcus Smart play, I get that impression. I could be wrong about him though. Push these young guys to the playoffs and they will attract an impact Free Agent, star or not.

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2014, 08:57:13 PM »

Offline Chris22

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- Dwayne Wade took the Miami Heat in the playoffs in his rookie campaign. They finished 42-40 in the season. They became a championship contender the following season after they got Shaq.

- Damian Lilliard and Brandon Roy turned the franchise of Blazers right after they got drafted.
It took two season for Roy and one for Lilliard to compete in the playoffs. And guess what? Both are picked in the #6 spot. Maybe our own #6 and even #17 can do that.

That proves that Rookies don't make you better right away a myth. Some rookies have huge impact in the team. The way I saw Marcus Smart play, I get that impression. I could be wrong about him though. Push these young guys to the playoffs and they will attract an impact Free Agent, star or not.

So true.

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2014, 09:05:32 PM »

Offline Mazingerz

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- Dwayne Wade took the Miami Heat in the playoffs in his rookie campaign. They finished 42-40 in the season. They became a championship contender the following season after they got Shaq.

- Damian Lilliard and Brandon Roy turned the franchise of Blazers right after they got drafted.
It took two season for Roy and one for Lilliard to compete in the playoffs. And guess what? Both are picked in the #6 spot. Maybe our own #6 and even #17 can do that.

That proves that Rookies don't make you better right away a myth. Some rookies have huge impact in the team. The way I saw Marcus Smart play, I get that impression. I could be wrong about him though. Push these young guys to the playoffs and they will attract an impact Free Agent, star or not.

So true.

+1
Peavey Bass Player - relearning to play after 10 years sucks;

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2014, 09:07:39 PM »

Offline TheWatersEdge

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We are certainly deeper, and CBS is a year wiser but even Rondo's contract year won't elevate this team all that much, I'm guessing we will 6-10 more games this year.  As others have said, this is just a ragtag collection of Danny bargain-shopping at TJ Maxx trading up to grab "slightly" better assets.   We still have absolutely nothing to talk about going on here and I'm ready for another murky, grating and somewhat boring season(but hey it's at least hoops).  Smart is certainly that alpha competitor that we need to add into our core group of players that we actually build the next contender around.  His passion fits w. Rondo and AB quite nicely.  As far as I'm concerned, everybody but Rondo, AB and perhaps Smart needs to get sent to their next stop so we can get some better players here somehow, some way, some day...

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2014, 09:16:41 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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- Dwayne Wade took the Miami Heat in the playoffs in his rookie campaign. They finished 42-40 in the season. They became a championship contender the following season after they got Shaq.

- Damian Lilliard and Brandon Roy turned the franchise of Blazers right after they got drafted.
It took two season for Roy and one for Lilliard to compete in the playoffs. And guess what? Both are picked in the #6 spot. Maybe our own #6 and even #17 can do that.

That proves that Rookies don't make you better right away a myth. Some rookies have huge impact in the team. The way I saw Marcus Smart play, I get that impression. I could be wrong about him though. Push these young guys to the playoffs and they will attract an impact Free Agent, star or not.

So true.

+1

Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Tim Duncan all turned their teams around big time in their rookie seasons as well. We have no rookies or prospects of any kind for that matter anywhere near that level of talent however.

Lillard had some talented players on his team, including Aldridge. The 2009-2010 Blazers in Roy's early career also had Aldridge, a healthy Oden, younger versions of Camby Andre Miller, and Juwan Howard i.e vets that know how to win.

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2014, 09:17:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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this team has to be better. I think Rondo will be better, I don't care if people hate him, love him or whatever, he wasn't healthy last yr., he wasn't playing a normal schedule of games, he'll be better and we'll be better.

and I have to assume sully and olynyk will be better....if sully hasn't eaten his way outta the league between now and the start of the season.

but all of this doesn't really matter. last season we still had a legitimate shot at the playoffs I think with like 3 weeks to go in the season. and that's why i'm puzzled as to why we're loading this team with guys that will get us to the 8th seed?

in the east we could have 28 - 30 wins and make the playoffs. it's a bad time to be mediocre.

also every yr. there's always 1 or 2 teams that don't live up to the hype esp. in the east. again we could find ourselves in or close to the playoffs without even trying.

The bar for getting into the East last year, when the power was more concentrated, was 38 wins. I don't see where 30 wins gets us a spot this year.

I agree that we will be better than last year, but I don't think we're in danger of making the playoffs (which is an awful phrase to type).

in reality 30 wins shouldn't get us in the playoffs and it probably won't. the eastern teams 'should' be better, but then again there were teams last yr. that 'should've been better' in the east and they weren't.

but still, if 38 was the bar and we were 30 and still had a shot until like 3 - 4 weeks to go in the season. it's too close. we were a lottery team that could've made the playoffs. if we earned a playoff spot - then great. but making the playoffs because we're the better of the bad teams isn't the same as earning it.

  If you finish with a better record than enough teams to make the playoffs you've earned it.

if having a losing record and making the playoffs means "earning it" to you then you might be a happy guy next yr.

i'd rather be a bad team with a lottery pick to show for it than a bad team with nothing to show for it.

  Everyone wants a high draft pick, not just you. Which has nothing to do with whether or not you "earn" the playoff spot that you, er, earn.

Re: Why don't people think we'll be better?
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2014, 09:49:30 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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- Dwayne Wade took the Miami Heat in the playoffs in his rookie campaign. They finished 42-40 in the season. They became a championship contender the following season after they got Shaq.

- Damian Lilliard and Brandon Roy turned the franchise of Blazers right after they got drafted.
It took two season for Roy and one for Lilliard to compete in the playoffs. And guess what? Both are picked in the #6 spot. Maybe our own #6 and even #17 can do that.

That proves that Rookies don't make you better right away a myth. Some rookies have huge impact in the team. The way I saw Marcus Smart play, I get that impression. I could be wrong about him though. Push these young guys to the playoffs and they will attract an impact Free Agent, star or not.

So true.

+1

Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Tim Duncan all turned their teams around big time in their rookie seasons as well. We have no rookies or prospects of any kind for that matter anywhere near that level of talent however.

Lillard had some talented players on his team, including Aldridge. The 2009-2010 Blazers in Roy's early career also had Aldridge, a healthy Oden, younger versions of Camby Andre Miller, and Juwan Howard i.e vets that know how to win.

Larry Bird was supposed to be unanimous #1 overall. Teams are reluctant to draft him because of the risk of not signing with the team and they lose his rights. Duncan and Magic were the unanimous best player in his draft class. When did the Celtics drafted #1 overall?

And like I said,  Roy's Blazers took 2 seasons to become competitive. They acquired piece during it's span I love it when you mentioned Aldridge yet disregard Rondo. Even if we miss a star FA in next season, we CAN acquire players that could give huge impact in the team if this young team proves to be competitive and talented once they made the playoffs.

We have finally a depth of balance roster that we don't have last season

Is it really that hard to be optimistic? You don't need a delusional optimism like Smart winning an MVP or Tyller Zeller winning the DPOY.