Author Topic: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics  (Read 10452 times)

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Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2014, 04:25:55 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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PER is more a measure of productivity than efficiency. Specifically, productivity relative to minutes played. Which is why it rewards volume scorers who come off the bench and average players on bad teams. Like Sully, Thad Young and Tobias Harris.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2014, 04:37:32 PM »

Offline CM0

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PER is more a measure of productivity than efficiency. Specifically, productivity relative to minutes played. Which is why it rewards volume scorers who come off the bench and average players on bad teams. Like Sully, Thad Young and Tobias Harris.

Efficiency can be defined as the time, effort or resources needed to achieve some end. So yes, productivity in light of minutes is a huge part of PER.

I said that they were generally comparable but that Sully was slightly more efficient. End of story.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2014, 05:10:23 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Sully and  Boozer were comparable last year though Sully was statistically more efficient. Their careers are obviously moving in opposite directions.

I call BS on this one.  Boozer shot  better than Sully.  While it is true, Boozer is getting up their in age and in decline,  Sully is getting up there in weight.   They played within one MPG of each other.   Boozer shot better and outrebounded Sully and outscored him.   What did you based " statistically more efficient."on. because it sure as heck was not actual stats.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1703/carlos-boozer

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6624/jared-sullinger

You must have used PER alone.   But calling a PF that shoots .43% efficient is a total joke.

  Boozer didn't shoot better than Sully last year. He had a lower TS% and a lower eFG%. Boozer had a lower fg% on  2 point shots and took fewer free throws as well.

http://bkref.com/tiny/dJ2mv


Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2014, 05:13:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I think the Lakers lineup is better. If they are healthy they will probably kick our butts  :(

The Lakers might end with a worse record because the west is still far better than the east. Now that Miami is dismantled, the top 7 teams are all in the West.

Kobe  >> Bradley
Lin / Nash << Rondo / Smart
Boozer / Randle >> Sullinger / Bass
Hill / Sacre > Zeller / Olynyk
Young / Jack Nicholson   < Green / Wallace

lakers have a small edge, and are also not done filling their roster. They are more experienced, have much better shooting, are better up front, have go to guys in the last 4 minutes of a close game, and Kobe will get more calls than the Celtics best scorer.

  I think if Sully and  Olynyk are healthy and show reasonable development the arrows on the bigs could easily be reversed. Boozer hasn't really been getting better with age.

Boozer is on the decline for sure. I still trust him with more minutes than i do any of our bigs. And i hope Sully, Olynyk, Zeller bring improved bodies to camp and take their games to the next level next season. Until i see it i wont believe it though.

  Sully doesn't need to make a leap to be better than Boozer, just play the way he frequently did last year more consistently.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2014, 05:53:37 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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One thing to note is that Boozer at year two was a better pro than Sully at year 2.  Better shooter and rebounder so to those who think Sully has a higher ceiling, I think your wrong but hope your right.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2014, 06:54:22 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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One thing to note is that Boozer at year two was a better pro than Sully at year 2.  Better shooter and rebounder so to those who think Sully has a higher ceiling, I think your wrong but hope your right.

For whatever it's worth, Carlos Boozer in year 2 wasn't returning from back surgery, nor was he forced to play out of position through much of it, nor asked to extend his range to the 3-point, and he was a year older.

Carlos Boozer was a good offensive player, but doesn't help to use a comparison without the relevant context to surround it.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2014, 07:06:01 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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PER is more a measure of productivity than efficiency. Specifically, productivity relative to minutes played. Which is why it rewards volume scorers who come off the bench and average players on bad teams. Like Sully, Thad Young and Tobias Harris.

Efficiency can be defined as the time, effort or resources needed to achieve some end. So yes, productivity in light of minutes is a huge part of PER.

I said that they were generally comparable but that Sully was slightly more efficient. End of story.
Well, I tried.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2014, 08:06:27 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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wasn't returning from back surgery, nor was he forced to play out of position through much of it, nor asked to extend his range to the 3-point, and he was a year older.

You can't use the out of position and the extend the range in all fairness.   Was he playing C or chucking threes?    I think he likes the shot because he will not get blocked.

Boozer also was not out of shape nor overweight.  Boozer knows what he is good at, he doesn't try to do things he was not good at.  Do you think Sullinger has the talent to be a star?   I see him as a dirty work blue collar guy.

Guys come back and play from injuries all the time.   Problem that has become an excuse for him being out of shape and shooting poorly.   He must not have killed it in rehab.   Adrian Peterson came back and dominated in football and it can be done in a contact sport.   Rondo did not pork out while he was injured.

I hope he realizes his limitations and works hard.   I hope I am utterly wrong on my feelings on Sully.  I just don't see it.   Of course, being from Ohio, I have probably seen less on him than you.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2014, 08:17:23 PM »

Offline BballTim

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One thing to note is that Boozer at year two was a better pro than Sully at year 2.  Better shooter and rebounder so to those who think Sully has a higher ceiling, I think your wrong but hope your right.

  He played more minutes than Sully. Per minute they were fairly similar although Boozer shot better. I think coming back from injury and that hand injury pulled Sully's numbers down a little.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #69 on: July 28, 2014, 09:28:22 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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With scott now as the lakers coach, does that change anything

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #70 on: July 28, 2014, 10:00:07 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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With scott now as the lakers coach, does that change anything

Not really. He might be a better coach that Stevens, but he's certainly not in the upper echelon.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Currently which lineup is better? Lakers or Celtics
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2014, 10:08:27 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Rondo was not fully recovered from injury.  He should be in 2014 plus he is in a contract year.  Expect him to be going full out.

Smart has the potential to be a Deron Williams or Westbrook type of guard, who will bully opposing guards with superior size/strength/athleticism combo.

If Bass gets moved, I also expect one of our young bigs sully/KO/Zeller to take a step to the next level.  Mostly I am expecting KO to make that leap and become one of our top 3 scoring options.

Now does this give us more than 30 wins.  I don't know.  But even if LA is more talented on paper, they are in a tougher conference, so we might still end up neck an neck with them as far as standings.  The lottery gods hate the Celtics and love the Cavs, but at least this should be Cleveland's last year in the lottery with a powerhouse team that includes Lebron/Irving/Love.

If we can pry Dieng away from Minny for brokering a Love trade, I'd be ecstatic but chances are low that will happen.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 10:30:41 PM by vjcsmoke »