Trade idea: Bos, Cle, Minn

[Csfan1984]

ugly deal for C's.  no proven young talent coming back for 3 starters including an all-star PG.   the picks from Cleveland will be at the end of the rounds so essentially crapshoots at best.  even an optimist couldn't expect to get more than a 9-10th man in a rotation if lucky with those picks.

C's go nowhere for at least 5 years if not more depending on where their own picks end up in the draft

If C's move Rondo they are not going any where any time soon no matter the trade. This deal at least nets them a good young SG and PF who have show a lot for early in their careers.

[Csfan1984]

I don't think Minny gives up Love for Rondo.  Maybe they give up Love for Irving though (more up side, younger, and under control).

Right now it seems like if Cle wants Love, they need to trade Wiggins.

I know it seems a bit outrageous but I think you might be able to make this work if you had Rondo going to Cleve, Irving going to Minny

Boston Out   Rondo   $12,909,000                 
                             Thornton   $8,675,000
      
Boston In                Bennett   $5,563,000
                Waiters   $4,062,000
                Shabazz   $1,972,000
                            Rubio        $5,070,000
      
Cle Out                Bennett   $5,563,000
                Waiters   $4,062,000
                Irving   $7,071,000
                Thompson   $5,138,000
                Haywood   $2,214,000
      
Cle In                 Rondo   $12,909,000
                 Love   $15,719,000
      
Minni Out                Love   $15,719,000
                           Shabazz   $1,972,000
                           Rubio         $5,070,000
      
Minni In                Irving   $7,071,000
                Thompson   $5,138,000
                Haywood   $2,214,000
                            Thornton   $8,675,000

So the big question that this proposed trade poses is would Cleveland rather trade Wiggins and keep Irving to get Love or let go of Irving and kind of get back Rondo and Wiggins.

I think they just might and then this is a great trade for Minni  (I think Irving has a very high ceiling and is a good return for Love) and a good return for Boston on Rondo who is losing trade value as the clock ticks.

I know this is way too many parts to be anything close to likely but I wanted to do a variation of the original trade that had the Rondo to Cleveland concept and this is where I ended up.

That is a worst deal for C's and steal for Wolves.

[Vermont Green]

I don't think Minny gives up Love for Rondo.  Maybe they give up Love for Irving though (more up side, younger, and under control).

Right now it seems like if Cle wants Love, they need to trade Wiggins.

I know it seems a bit outrageous but I think you might be able to make this work if you had Rondo going to Cleve, Irving going to Minny

Boston Out   Rondo   $12,909,000                 
                             Thornton   $8,675,000
      
Boston In                Bennett   $5,563,000
                Waiters   $4,062,000
                Shabazz   $1,972,000
                            Rubio        $5,070,000
      
Cle Out                Bennett   $5,563,000
                Waiters   $4,062,000
                Irving   $7,071,000
                Thompson   $5,138,000
                Haywood   $2,214,000
      
Cle In                 Rondo   $12,909,000
                 Love   $15,719,000
      
Minni Out                Love   $15,719,000
                           Shabazz   $1,972,000
                           Rubio         $5,070,000
      
Minni In                Irving   $7,071,000
                Thompson   $5,138,000
                Haywood   $2,214,000
                            Thornton   $8,675,000

So the big question that this proposed trade poses is would Cleveland rather trade Wiggins and keep Irving to get Love or let go of Irving and kind of get back Rondo and Wiggins.

I think they just might and then this is a great trade for Minni  (I think Irving has a very high ceiling and is a good return for Love) and a good return for Boston on Rondo who is losing trade value as the clock ticks.

I know this is way too many parts to be anything close to likely but I wanted to do a variation of the original trade that had the Rondo to Cleveland concept and this is where I ended up.

That is a worst deal for C's and steal for Wolves.

What do you think from Cleveland's perspective.  Do you think they would give up Irving?

I think you are overvaluing Rondo if you think we are going to do better than Shabazz,Waiters and Bennett for Rondo or are you referring to the Rubio for Thornton part?  (I know the trade is not exactly in these parts).  Thornton and Rubio are both expiring and it is trading an overpriced back up PG for an overpriced backup wing, just to align the rosters better.  You could leave that part out of the trade and it still works.

The unique aspect of this trade is the Rondo to Cleveland and Irving to Minny.  I was hoping for comments on Rondo's value to Cle vs. Irving's?  If I was Cle, I would not do this but I am thinking some here will view Rondo as an upgrade for Cle.

[Waew]

so the wolves trade all their good players and get a 9 month rental of rondo, an overweight undersized pf,  and jeff green, the guy jackie macmullan said no team wants.

[Csfan1984]

I don't think Minny gives up Love for Rondo.  Maybe they give up Love for Irving though (more up side, younger, and under control).

Right now it seems like if Cle wants Love, they need to trade Wiggins.

I know it seems a bit outrageous but I think you might be able to make this work if you had Rondo going to Cleve, Irving going to Minny

Boston Out   Rondo   $12,909,000                 
                             Thornton   $8,675,000
      
Boston In                Bennett   $5,563,000
                Waiters   $4,062,000
                Shabazz   $1,972,000
                            Rubio        $5,070,000
      
Cle Out                Bennett   $5,563,000
                Waiters   $4,062,000
                Irving   $7,071,000
                Thompson   $5,138,000
                Haywood   $2,214,000
      
Cle In                 Rondo   $12,909,000
                 Love   $15,719,000
      
Minni Out                Love   $15,719,000
                           Shabazz   $1,972,000
                           Rubio         $5,070,000
      
Minni In                Irving   $7,071,000
                Thompson   $5,138,000
                Haywood   $2,214,000
                            Thornton   $8,675,000

So the big question that this proposed trade poses is would Cleveland rather trade Wiggins and keep Irving to get Love or let go of Irving and kind of get back Rondo and Wiggins.

I think they just might and then this is a great trade for Minni  (I think Irving has a very high ceiling and is a good return for Love) and a good return for Boston on Rondo who is losing trade value as the clock ticks.

I know this is way too many parts to be anything close to likely but I wanted to do a variation of the original trade that had the Rondo to Cleveland concept and this is where I ended up.

That is a worst deal for C's and steal for Wolves.

What do you think from Cleveland's perspective.  Do you think they would give up Irving?

I think you are overvaluing Rondo if you think we are going to do better than Shabazz,Waiters and Bennett for Rondo or are you referring to the Rubio for Thornton part?  (I know the trade is not exactly in these parts).  Thornton and Rubio are both expiring and it is trading an overpriced back up PG for an overpriced backup wing, just to align the rosters better.  You could leave that part out of the trade and it still works.

The unique aspect of this trade is the Rondo to Cleveland and Irving to Minny.  I was hoping for comments on Rondo's value to Cle vs. Irving's?  If I was Cle, I would not do this but I am thinking some here will view Rondo as an upgrade for Cle.

Cleveland rather keep Irving no way are they moving him. Rubio is 1/2 the player Thornton is. Just watch the guys play and that is obvious. I don't over value Rondo he is still top 15/20 player or do disagree with that?

[Csfan1984]

so the wolves trade all their good players and get a 9 month rental of rondo, an overweight undersized pf,  and jeff green, the guy jackie macmullan said no team wants.

All their good players? Rubio and Barea are bench guys and way over paid. Love and the first is only real value giving up and Love won't stay there so not like they are "giving him up" more like letting go. And as of Rondo being a rental, he says things are all business and he wants the max. Based on that he doesn't care where he goes so long as it is a 5 year max deal. That has to be appealing if your the Wolves. Means you can lock up a star player for 5 years.

[Endless Paradise]

so the wolves trade all their good players and get a 9 month rental of rondo, an overweight undersized pf,  and jeff green, the guy jackie macmullan said no team wants.

All their good players? Rubio and Barea are bench guys and way over paid. Love and the first is only real value giving up and Love won't stay there so not like they are "giving him up" more like letting go. And as of Rondo being a rental, he says things are all business and he wants the max. Based on that he doesn't care where he goes so long as it is a 5 year max deal. That has to be appealing if your the Wolves. Means you can lock up a star player for 5 years.

Uhh, Rubio is NOT a bench guy and he's still on a rookie contract, so how exactly is he overpaid?

The notion that Rubio isn't actually valuable is laughable.

[Csfan1984]

so the wolves trade all their good players and get a 9 month rental of rondo, an overweight undersized pf,  and jeff green, the guy jackie macmullan said no team wants.

All their good players? Rubio and Barea are bench guys and way over paid. Love and the first is only real value giving up and Love won't stay there so not like they are "giving him up" more like letting go. And as of Rondo being a rental, he says things are all business and he wants the max. Based on that he doesn't care where he goes so long as it is a 5 year max deal. That has to be appealing if your the Wolves. Means you can lock up a star player for 5 years.

Uhh, Rubio is NOT a bench guy and he's still on a rookie contract, so how exactly is he overpaid?

The notion that Rubio isn't actually valuable is laughable.

Yes he is, the dude is horrible. Only guy in the NBA who misses open layups on the regular. Oh and he can't shoot or defend. At 4.3million that is a bad deal and his QO is what is laughable.

[Endless Paradise]

Aside from the fact that what you're saying isn't actually true (Rubio has consistently been lauded for his defense), he's got some of the best passing, playmaking, and court vision in the entire league.

There's a reason why Rubio's agents are pushing for a max deal (which they will certainly not get, but he's still going to get paid).

Your apparent bias against Rubio doesn't change the fact that he's a starting quality point guard and his contract is not terrible at all.  $4.3 million for Rubio is a steal considering he is easily going to make more than double that when he's up for his next contract.  The qualifying option is irrelevant since he won't be signing that because he'll be signing a new deal.

Is he horrific at shooting?  Yeah... which is why you surround him with shooters to whom he can facilitate, since that's his primary job as a point guard.  Something he happens to be amazing at.

[Csfan1984]

Aside from the fact that what you're saying isn't actually true (Rubio has consistently been lauded for his defense), he's got some of the best passing, playmaking, and court vision in the entire league.

There's a reason why Rubio's agents are pushing for a max deal (which they will certainly not get, but he's still going to get paid).

Your apparent bias against Rubio doesn't change the fact that he's a starting quality point guard and his contract is not terrible at all.  $4.3 million for Rubio is a steal considering he is easily going to make more than double that when he's up for his next contract.

Is he horrific at shooting?  Yeah... which is why you surround him with shooters to whom he can facilitate, since that's his primary job as a point guard.  Something he happens to be amazing at.

Defense Lauded by who? Never ever heard that. And based on what these eyes have seen his D is one of the worst at the PG spot. Only reason he is asking for Max is because he knows Wolves situation.   

[Endless Paradise]

Then you should see some actual backing of what I'm saying, because I'm not trusting your eye tests at all between this and your claim that he's the only guy in the league to blow so many wide-open layups while still managing to shoot right at the league average around the rim:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-hidden-value-of-the-nba-steal/
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Stats_scan_Ricky_Rubio_is_elite_in_nearly_irreplaceable_category032614
http://www.twincities.com/ci_20344808/ricky-rubios-absence-hole-timberwolves-defense
http://grantland.com/features/the-young-nba-players-looking-make-leap-greatness/

There's also the fact Synergy ranks him 33rd in the league in isolation defense, holding his opponents to 32.9% shooting, which is easily elite.  Point being, he's an excellent one-on-one defender who's got some strides to make in team defense.  You are wrong if you are calling him a bad defender.

And you're correct that he's only asking for the max because he understands the Wolves' situation.  And the only reason he's even in a position to demand a max contract is because -- *gasp* -- he's actually good.  Yes, he has flaws in his game, but this idea that paying Rubio even on his rookie contract is somehow burdensome for Minnesota is absolutely ridiculous and not at all worth my time arguing.

You think Alexey Shved's going to try throw his weight around to get a max from the Wolves anytime soon?

[Csfan1984]

Article talks about horrible shooting that isn't too bad because shooting is lacking in the league... LOL

Synergy must be rating PGs if he is 32.

[Endless Paradise]

No, that's his statistical ranking relative to the entire NBA.

Also, a correction: he was indeed below average at finishing around the rim this season.  He's also improved his shooting percentage in that area each year he's been in the league, going from a putrid 41% to a subpar 48%.  Taking into consideration his age and potential, I see no reason to assume he can't ever reach league average.

[footey]

No way Minny would do that cause they know Rondo would not resign there

second that.

[Csfan1984]

We can hope he will be good if he played for C's but as of right now he flat out isn't. Sure compared to the other Wolves PGs he is better but compared to the league no way is he any good. Even in those articles they go out of their way to try and make him look better by the examples they give. Total fluff.