Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly

[MBunge]

From the Q&A you quoted:

Teams with a team salary below the minimum are surcharged for their shortfall, with the money distributed among the players on that team.

That's my point: the Sixers don't need to reach the salary floor since the only "penalty" is that they have to make up the difference by paying their players more.  The only incentive in taking on dead salary is for the assets a team would receive, which is why it seems silly to act as though the Celtics are the ones doing the Sixers a favor by dumping Wallace on them and that Boston shouldn't need to include a first-round pick.  They'd only be interested in the deal because of the first-round pick, among other things.

But the point is that they've got to spend the money anyway and Wallace becomes an expiring deal after next season, making it an asset that Philly could trade.  It would be ridiculous to give Philly a 1st round pick when...

A.  They already have to spend the money.

B.  Adding Wallace's contract won't really effect them because their plan was clearly to tank this year anyway.

C.  Philly can spend the extra money and GET NOTHING for it or spend the money and GET SOMETHING for it.  The latter seems better than the former.

There's no reason to give away a first just to get rid of Wallace's contract, unless Wyc orders Ainge to do it to save money.  Philly, however, is one team that MIGHT be willing to take Wallace for only a 2nd round pick or some lesser price.  I don't know if they'd be interested but it's a possible option.

Mike

A. So they can spend the money on guys they're actually interested in, i.e. borderline NBA players who they want to evaluate, much like they did last year.  They can also use the cap space to facilitate trades for guys they're actually interested in.  I can assure you that Gerald Wallace is not such a guy.  No need to spend the money on him just because.

B. It's still their cap space - they're not in any way inclined to help another team, even if they can easily facilitate it.

C. A second-round pick isn't enough compensation for Wallace's contract, especially for Philly (who were demanding at least a first rounder for Lin).  They can use that space and get more than a second rounder later in the season, just like the Celtics did last year with Joel Anthony.

Here's a list of recent salary dumps since last summer:
* Utah took on $24 million in expiring contracts belonging to useless players from Golden State because they got a bevy of picks, including two unprotected firsts.
* Boston took on Joel Anthony and the year and a half remaining on his contract because they got a first rounder and a second rounder from Philly via Miami.
* Memphis took on Courtney Lee and the two and a half years remaining on his contract because they're actually competitive and he was a useful player.  The second rounder they got from Boston as a sweetener didn't hurt matters, either.
* Boston took on Marcus Thornton's expiring contract because they got a young prospect in Tyler Zeller and a first rounder from Cleveland.
* The Lakers took on Jeremy Lin's expiring contract because they got a first rounder and a second rounder from Houston.

The one salary dump to buck this trend?  Omer Asik to the Pelicans, which involved a desired commodity who also happens to have an expiring contract.

My point is renting cap space is expensive.  The only possible way you even get to the table with the Sixers is by starting with a first rounder for swallowing Wallace's contract.  He has no value to them as a player at this point in their rebuild and he would just tie up their finances.  It doesn't matter if they have to spend that money, anyway - they want to spend it however they desire on the players they want.  Can they be convinced to take on a player they don't want?  Sure, but offering just a second rounder is an insult and they would never accept such a deal.

The Sixers weren't willing to take on Amare Stoudemire's expiring contract for Iman Shumpert alone; they're definitely not going to say, "sure, we'll take two years of Gerald Wallace and a second rounder."  You say there's no reason for the Celtics to use a first rounder to dump Wallace's contract on the Sixers?  There's even less reason for the Sixers to accept that dump for a second round pick -- something a team can easily purchase.

I mean, hell, even the Celtics weren't willing to take on Gerald Wallace without at least one of those first rounders they received in the Nets trade being used as compensation.

1.  So, did the NBA grant Philly a roster exemption this year so they can have 25 guys?  They're 30 million below the cap.  There isn't enough room under the rules to have marginal D-Leaguers absorb all that money. 

2.  If Philly wants to trade for a guy, they have to have something the other team wants and I don't think there's a great market for marginal D-Leaguers.  Wallace's deal is worthless this year for trades but gains value as an expiring next year.  Which would Philly rather deal in a trade, Wallace or a 1st round pick?

3.  None of those other teams, except the Lakers were in the position of being 30 million under the salary floor.  And the reason Houston threw in the picks for Lin is because they were desperate to get rid of him.  Boston doesn't need to unload Wallace so we don't have the same incentive.

4.  The Sixers didn't want Amare because he can still play, when healthy, and would screw up their plans to suck.  Wallace can't and won't.  Amare, Noel, Shumpert and MCW has a chance to not epically suck.

So let me try again.

Philly MUST spend another 30 million or so in salary next season.  They can either get nothing for it or they can get something for it.  Acquiring Wallace and the value of his expiring contract the season after next, when Philly hopes to have both Noel and Embiid and NOT lose 60+ games, isn't a lot but it is something.

Would Philly be interested in Wallace and a 2nd or something less than a 1st?  I don't know.  Probably not.  But they are one of the few teams where you can come up with a scenario where it's possible.

Mike

[Endless Paradise]

1. Fair point, though what I said about trades still stands as I'll explain below.

2. Philly doesn't have to worry about sending matching salaries because of their cap space; I'd be willing to bet that the lure of immediate cap relief probably outweighs the benefit of taking on Wallace's expiring contract for pretty much any team that'd be in a position to trade a key player away to Philly.  Even still, the CBA has depreciated the value of an expiring contract.

If Philly wants to acquire a star player, they're giving up that first rounder, with or without Wallace.  If they need salary filler, they can accomplish that by signing their borderline NBA players to multiyear deals with partially or fully nonguaranteed years.  See: what Cleveland and Charlotte just did this past week.

Beyond that, they don't need to even trade for an impact player - they can do what the Celtics just did and just serve as a fortunate third-party to facilitate a trade while collecting assets from desperate teams.

3. That explanation only addresses why the Celtics wouldn't do that deal, not why the Sixers would do it.  The Celtics not needing the deal doesn't give the Sixers more incentive to do it; that just gives the Celtics more incentive to walk away.  "I don't need to do this deal and neither do you, so take this deal, anyway" isn't a very good way to bargain.

For the record, Utah most certainly was in that position.  They had about $30 million in salary committed to players who didn't come from Golden State.

4. No, this is just silly.  As a New Yorker who watches the Knicks very frequently and considers himself a Knicks fan to a degree, I can tell you that Amare can't play any defense, has low BBIQ, is an offensive black hole, and is limited in regards to playing time due to questionable health; at this point in his career, he is no way, shape, or form good or reliable enough to make the Sixers "too good."  He is purely a part time role player who can still show a flash of the old Amare from time to time.

Even beyond that, I think even Hinkie understand that you can't just keeping tearing down a team without trying to establish a foundation.  He's gotten rid of all of his inherited long-term salary for the most part; I think this year is less about being "actively bad" and more about just playing guys who aren't good enough yet to win regularly.  The fact that he was willing to trade for Jeremy Lin only further suggests that "being too good" wasn't exactly a major concern (if one at all) for him.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not in the least bit feasible.  Recent history has shown that Philly can do far better than what you're saying.  They have all the leverage here and they've also shown a willingness to walk away from deals that aren't sufficient (Amare, Lin).  Those proposed deals were for two guys who won't even be on their books past the year and in the case of Lin, someone who has enough value to potentially be flipped by the trade deadline for more assets.  They're simply just not taking on Wallace and his contract for a second rounder.  It's not reasonable at all nor does it even fall in line with Hinkie's past dealings.

[LooseCannon]

If one of their young players looks like a future star and Philly exceeds expectations, they could be the sort of exciting, young team that a legitimate star might consider joining via free agency.  So, it makes little sense for the 76ers to add salary in the form of non-expiring contracts unless they are getting a lot of compensation.  Boston got a first and a young player with upside for facilitating Cleveland's salary dump of Jarrett Jack.  To enable a dump of Wallace, I'd argue that the Sixers should hold out for two firsts and young non-center with at least as much starter potential as Zeller, which Boston shouldn't pay, so no deal should be made.

[Endless Paradise]

TP for you.

[Celtics4ever]

It seems like Philly is very open to taking on salary if they get other compensation for it. Why not trade Wallace + the Clips 2015 1st + a future protected 2nd rounder to Philly for a traded player exception?

Because we can use his leadership next year, keep the picks and let him expire or trade him at the deadline for way better stuff than a TPE.  There is no promise that you can use a TPE.   Cap Space you can always use.

[beklog]

It seems like Philly is very open to taking on salary if they get other compensation for it. Why not trade Wallace + the Clips 2015 1st + a future protected 2nd rounder to Philly for a traded player exception?

Because we can use his leadership next year, keep the picks and let him expire or trade him at the deadline for way better stuff than a TPE.  There is no promise that you can use a TPE.   Cap Space you can always use.

Wallace' leadership??? i wouldn't imagine I'll see those 2 words together....

[JSD]

I'm not giving up an asset just to get rid of that horrible contract. Keep him til someone wants him as an expiring or we use him that way.  He is still fine as a backup and a very good defender.  Our guard wing group are all very good defenders.

Expiring contracts don't seem to have as much value under the new CBA as they used to unless a team is looking to offload longterm, unwanted salary.

We certainly don't need the extra cap space now, since most of the top tier free agents are gone. It will cost us less to ship him out next year when he is an expiring contract

But it would get us further away from the tax apron - we'd have more flexibility to use the MLE and in trades.

I think he means that even trading Wallace Boston won't have any cap room, so why give up an asset to move.  Now next summer if Boston needs some extra room to sign a free agent, that is when you move Wallace. 

I actually wouldn't mind just sending them Bass straight up.  I think that is a trade that makes a lot more sense for Philadelphia and still makes sense for Boston.  Philly needs to add salary, Bass is expiring, and while Bass is a veteran (something Philly needs) he isn't going to make any difference in their wins and losses next year.  Perfect add for Philly.  Boston sheds the salary, gets a TPE, and frees up more time for KO and JS at the 4.

I would trade Philly Bass for a protected 2nd rounder if they took Anthony too. I think it's great for both teams for what you've already said, plus it compresses our roster and gives us a bigger TPE.

[Moranis]

I'm not giving up an asset just to get rid of that horrible contract. Keep him til someone wants him as an expiring or we use him that way.  He is still fine as a backup and a very good defender.  Our guard wing group are all very good defenders.

Expiring contracts don't seem to have as much value under the new CBA as they used to unless a team is looking to offload longterm, unwanted salary.

We certainly don't need the extra cap space now, since most of the top tier free agents are gone. It will cost us less to ship him out next year when he is an expiring contract

But it would get us further away from the tax apron - we'd have more flexibility to use the MLE and in trades.

I think he means that even trading Wallace Boston won't have any cap room, so why give up an asset to move.  Now next summer if Boston needs some extra room to sign a free agent, that is when you move Wallace. 

I actually wouldn't mind just sending them Bass straight up.  I think that is a trade that makes a lot more sense for Philadelphia and still makes sense for Boston.  Philly needs to add salary, Bass is expiring, and while Bass is a veteran (something Philly needs) he isn't going to make any difference in their wins and losses next year.  Perfect add for Philly.  Boston sheds the salary, gets a TPE, and frees up more time for KO and JS at the 4.

I would trade Philly Bass for a protected 2nd rounder if they took Anthony too. I think it's great for both teams for what you've already said, plus it compresses our roster and gives us a bigger TPE.

Boston is not getting a second rounder from Philly in that trade, especially if you add in Anthony. 

Bass straight up is a fair trade for both teams.  Boston gets a fairly good sized TPE (and while Boston could absorb less than trading Bass, by not sending a player back it probably has more value around the league).  Bass isn't a part of Boston's future and he is unneccessary from a basketball standpoint with Sullinger and Olynyk on the team. 

[Endless Paradise]

Philly would have to send something out in a trade; they'd probably send out a top 55 protected draft pick that they would realistically never have to convey.