Author Topic: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly  (Read 5188 times)

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Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« on: July 14, 2014, 11:17:32 AM »

Online RJ87

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It seems like Philly is very open to taking on salary if they get other compensation for it. Why not trade Wallace + the Clips 2015 1st + a future protected 2nd rounder to Philly for a traded player exception?

The Clippers pick will likely be in the late 20's. I know Danny is in asset gathering mode, but having him off of the books for next offseason could be critical to bringing in a player like Marc Gasol.

Besides, Gerald's rants in Philly would be very entertaining.
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Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 11:22:15 AM »

Offline 2short

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I'm not giving up an asset just to get rid of that horrible contract.  Keep him til someone wants him as an expiring or we use him that way.  He is still fine as a backup and a very good defender.  Our guard wing group are all very good defenders. 

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 11:23:37 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Philly is currently about 30 million under the minimum salary floor for next season and about 40 million under the floor for the season after that.  Wallace is exactly the sort of contract they should be looking for and we shouldn't even have to include a 1st in the deal.

Mike

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 11:23:59 AM »

Offline moiso

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That wouldn't be enough to give away Wallace.  We don't need cap space to sign anyone at this point anyway, so I'd rather just hold onto Wallace and keep our draft picks.

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 11:26:58 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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We certainly don't need the extra cap space now, since most of the top tier free agents are gone. It will cost us less to ship him out next year when he is an expiring contract

Even if we keep him we might be able to bring back Rondo and sign another top tier free agent, so why give up a pick to trade him.
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Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2014, 11:27:54 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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actually when healthy, Wallace is a pretty good player...I would not mind using the stretch provision on Wallace. It would make his contract less crappy, probably easier to trade in the future (correct me if I am wrong), and can still back up Green in the mean time, if we choose to compete with a lineup of Rondo/Bradley (Or Smart if he takes over Bradley's starting spot)/Green/Sully/Zeller (or KO)

with a bench of Pressey/Smart/Young/Wallace/Zeller (Or KO)

not the greatest of all team, probably not even a playoff team, but if this team plays hard, it might raise some of our guy's value as assets later on.

I agree with what is said with the above, I rather not trade a valuable asset just to unload a bad contract.

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2014, 11:28:42 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Philly is currently about 30 million under the minimum salary floor for next season and about 40 million under the floor for the season after that.  Wallace is exactly the sort of contract they should be looking for and we shouldn't even have to include a 1st in the deal.

Mike

Uhh, what?  They don't need to reach the salary floor.  Either way, why shouldn't the Celtics have to include a first to dump his unwanted salary?  Renting cap space comes at a price.  Philly's not going to take on Wallace just to help the Celtics out.  Boston didn't just take on Thornton simply to help Cleveland out and they didn't take on Anthony just to help Miami out.

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2014, 11:37:14 AM »

Online RJ87

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I'm not giving up an asset just to get rid of that horrible contract. Keep him til someone wants him as an expiring or we use him that way.  He is still fine as a backup and a very good defender.  Our guard wing group are all very good defenders.

Expiring contracts don't seem to have as much value under the new CBA as they used to unless a team is looking to offload longterm, unwanted salary.


We certainly don't need the extra cap space now, since most of the top tier free agents are gone. It will cost us less to ship him out next year when he is an expiring contract


But it would get us further away from the tax apron - we'd have more flexibility to use the MLE and in trades.
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Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2014, 11:47:26 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'm not giving up an asset just to get rid of that horrible contract. Keep him til someone wants him as an expiring or we use him that way.  He is still fine as a backup and a very good defender.  Our guard wing group are all very good defenders.

Expiring contracts don't seem to have as much value under the new CBA as they used to unless a team is looking to offload longterm, unwanted salary.


We certainly don't need the extra cap space now, since most of the top tier free agents are gone. It will cost us less to ship him out next year when he is an expiring contract


But it would get us further away from the tax apron - we'd have more flexibility to use the MLE and in trades.
his biggest value next year isn't that he's just an expiring contract but an expiring contract that can be used to balance out salaries in a deal for a really good player.  Our young players may be desirable to another team that needs to move a good vet but they're salaries don't amount to a lot in comparison to a top player making what they deserve.  Wallace's deal helps the C's match salaries in that type of deal and the fact he's on his last year makes it more palatable for the receiving team

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2014, 11:59:08 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Philly is currently about 30 million under the minimum salary floor for next season and about 40 million under the floor for the season after that.  Wallace is exactly the sort of contract they should be looking for and we shouldn't even have to include a 1st in the deal.

Mike

Uhh, what?  They don't need to reach the salary floor.  Either way, why shouldn't the Celtics have to include a first to dump his unwanted salary?  Renting cap space comes at a price.  Philly's not going to take on Wallace just to help the Celtics out.  Boston didn't just take on Thornton simply to help Cleveland out and they didn't take on Anthony just to help Miami out.

From Larry Coon's Salary Cap FAQ

15. Is there a minimum amount each team must pay its players?

There is a minimum team salary (see question number 14), which for this purpose includes the salaries of players who were amnestied (see question number 69) or suffered a career-ending injury or illness (see question number 63), and excludes all cap holds. The team salary must be at or above a defined percentage of the salary cap on the date of the team's last regular season game:

Season   Minimum   Amount
2011-12   80% of the cap   $46.435 million
2012-13   85% of the cap   $49.337 million
2013-14   90% of the cap   $52.811 million
2014-15   90% of the cap   $56.759 million
2015-16   90% of the cap   
2016-17   90% of the cap   
2017-18   90% of the cap   
2018-19   90% of the cap   
2019-20   90% of the cap   
2020-21   90% of the cap   
Teams with a team salary below the minimum are surcharged for their shortfall, with the money distributed among the players on that team.

Amounts paid as buyouts to international teams (see question number 77) do not count toward the minimum team payroll.

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Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2014, 12:10:57 PM »

Offline snively

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We don't need immediate cap space as much as 2015 space.  It would make more sense to trade Wallace and a pick for Richardson's expiring deal.
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Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2014, 12:12:33 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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From the Q&A you quoted:

Teams with a team salary below the minimum are surcharged for their shortfall, with the money distributed among the players on that team.

That's my point: the Sixers don't need to reach the salary floor since the only "penalty" is that they have to make up the difference by paying their players more.  The only incentive in taking on dead salary is for the assets a team would receive, which is why it seems silly to act as though the Celtics are the ones doing the Sixers a favor by dumping Wallace on them and that Boston shouldn't need to include a first-round pick.  They'd only be interested in the deal because of the first-round pick, among other things.

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2014, 12:41:05 PM »

Offline MBunge

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From the Q&A you quoted:

Teams with a team salary below the minimum are surcharged for their shortfall, with the money distributed among the players on that team.

That's my point: the Sixers don't need to reach the salary floor since the only "penalty" is that they have to make up the difference by paying their players more.  The only incentive in taking on dead salary is for the assets a team would receive, which is why it seems silly to act as though the Celtics are the ones doing the Sixers a favor by dumping Wallace on them and that Boston shouldn't need to include a first-round pick.  They'd only be interested in the deal because of the first-round pick, among other things.

But the point is that they've got to spend the money anyway and Wallace becomes an expiring deal after next season, making it an asset that Philly could trade.  It would be ridiculous to give Philly a 1st round pick when...

A.  They already have to spend the money.

B.  Adding Wallace's contract won't really effect them because their plan was clearly to tank this year anyway.

C.  Philly can spend the extra money and GET NOTHING for it or spend the money and GET SOMETHING for it.  The latter seems better than the former.

There's no reason to give away a first just to get rid of Wallace's contract, unless Wyc orders Ainge to do it to save money.  Philly, however, is one team that MIGHT be willing to take Wallace for only a 2nd round pick or some lesser price.  I don't know if they'd be interested but it's a possible option.

Mike

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2014, 01:08:47 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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From the Q&A you quoted:

Teams with a team salary below the minimum are surcharged for their shortfall, with the money distributed among the players on that team.

That's my point: the Sixers don't need to reach the salary floor since the only "penalty" is that they have to make up the difference by paying their players more.  The only incentive in taking on dead salary is for the assets a team would receive, which is why it seems silly to act as though the Celtics are the ones doing the Sixers a favor by dumping Wallace on them and that Boston shouldn't need to include a first-round pick.  They'd only be interested in the deal because of the first-round pick, among other things.

But the point is that they've got to spend the money anyway and Wallace becomes an expiring deal after next season, making it an asset that Philly could trade.  It would be ridiculous to give Philly a 1st round pick when...

A.  They already have to spend the money.

B.  Adding Wallace's contract won't really effect them because their plan was clearly to tank this year anyway.

C.  Philly can spend the extra money and GET NOTHING for it or spend the money and GET SOMETHING for it.  The latter seems better than the former.

There's no reason to give away a first just to get rid of Wallace's contract, unless Wyc orders Ainge to do it to save money.  Philly, however, is one team that MIGHT be willing to take Wallace for only a 2nd round pick or some lesser price.  I don't know if they'd be interested but it's a possible option.

Mike

A. So they can spend the money on guys they're actually interested in, i.e. borderline NBA players who they want to evaluate, much like they did last year.  They can also use the cap space to facilitate trades for guys they're actually interested in.  I can assure you that Gerald Wallace is not such a guy.  No need to spend the money on him just because.

B. It's still their cap space - they're not in any way inclined to help another team, even if they can easily facilitate it.

C. A second-round pick isn't enough compensation for Wallace's contract, especially for Philly (who were demanding at least a first rounder for Lin).  They can use that space and get more than a second rounder later in the season, just like the Celtics did last year with Joel Anthony.

Here's a list of recent salary dumps since last summer:
* Utah took on $24 million in expiring contracts belonging to useless players from Golden State because they got a bevy of picks, including two unprotected firsts.
* Boston took on Joel Anthony and the year and a half remaining on his contract because they got a first rounder and a second rounder from Philly via Miami.
* Memphis took on Courtney Lee and the two and a half years remaining on his contract because they're actually competitive and he was a useful player.  The second rounder they got from Boston as a sweetener didn't hurt matters, either.
* Boston took on Marcus Thornton's expiring contract because they got a young prospect in Tyler Zeller and a first rounder from Cleveland.
* The Lakers took on Jeremy Lin's expiring contract because they got a first rounder and a second rounder from Houston.

The one salary dump to buck this trend?  Omer Asik to the Pelicans, which involved a desired commodity who also happens to have an expiring contract.

My point is renting cap space is expensive.  The only possible way you even get to the table with the Sixers is by starting with a first rounder for swallowing Wallace's contract.  He has no value to them as a player at this point in their rebuild and he would just tie up their finances.  It doesn't matter if they have to spend that money, anyway - they want to spend it however they desire on the players they want.  Can they be convinced to take on a player they don't want?  Sure, but offering just a second rounder is an insult and they would never accept such a deal.

The Sixers weren't willing to take on Amare Stoudemire's expiring contract for Iman Shumpert alone; they're definitely not going to say, "sure, we'll take two years of Gerald Wallace and a second rounder."  You say there's no reason for the Celtics to use a first rounder to dump Wallace's contract on the Sixers?  There's even less reason for the Sixers to accept that dump for a second round pick -- something a team can easily purchase.

I mean, hell, even the Celtics weren't willing to take on Gerald Wallace without at least one of those first rounders they received in the Nets trade being used as compensation.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 01:21:53 PM by Endless Paradise »

Re: Trade Idea: Gerald Wallace to Philly
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2014, 01:23:57 PM »

Online Moranis

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I'm not giving up an asset just to get rid of that horrible contract. Keep him til someone wants him as an expiring or we use him that way.  He is still fine as a backup and a very good defender.  Our guard wing group are all very good defenders.

Expiring contracts don't seem to have as much value under the new CBA as they used to unless a team is looking to offload longterm, unwanted salary.


We certainly don't need the extra cap space now, since most of the top tier free agents are gone. It will cost us less to ship him out next year when he is an expiring contract


But it would get us further away from the tax apron - we'd have more flexibility to use the MLE and in trades.
I think he means that even trading Wallace Boston won't have any cap room, so why give up an asset to move.  Now next summer if Boston needs some extra room to sign a free agent, that is when you move Wallace. 

I actually wouldn't mind just sending them Bass straight up.  I think that is a trade that makes a lot more sense for Philadelphia and still makes sense for Boston.  Philly needs to add salary, Bass is expiring, and while Bass is a veteran (something Philly needs) he isn't going to make any difference in their wins and losses next year.  Perfect add for Philly.  Boston sheds the salary, gets a TPE, and frees up more time for KO and JS at the 4.
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