Author Topic: Celtics shouldn't tank next year  (Read 4922 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« on: July 12, 2014, 11:08:27 PM »

Offline Celtics251

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 27
  • Tommy Points: 4
I see a lot of people saying the Celtics should tank again to get another high draft pick. I don't think that's a good idea at all.

Next year's draft is deep. It is more deep than it is filled with talent at the 1-5 positions. That's not to say there isn't talent in the lottery part of the draft, but it's likely that even a mid first round pick would also have lots of talent similar to that of a lottery pick.

Also, if we are to entice a big name free agent or 2-3 above-average free agents next year, we should probably be winning games rather than tanking. Why would a big name FA choose to play for a team that isn't guaranteed to win a lot of games the next season considering they tanked the last one. If we win more games and make the playoffs FA's could be willing to actually come here.

Not saying that we are talented enough now to contend for a championship, of course we aren't. But surely we can aim at making the playoffs, even if its a low seed. At least we could prove that we are a playoff team and we can contend with more talent. If we just tank like last year and lose lots of games, there probably won't be much interest in coming to Boston.

Just my thoughts. Hoping for a good season nonetheless. Might be sounding too optimistic here but I feel like we tanked last year on purpose, and if we don't play to tank next year we can get a good record with Brad Stevens leading the way and D.A making the roster decisions (trade deadline), and possible make the playoffs in the somewhat weak East. By saying 'on purpose' I mean I felt we were a better team its just they were told to lose more games and tank, and that's also why we seemed to lose many close games last year that we could have won had we played to win at the end.

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2014, 11:17:16 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
I see a lot of people saying the Celtics should tank again to get another high draft pick. I don't think that's a good idea at all.

Next year's draft is deep. It is more deep than it is filled with talent at the 1-5 positions. That's not to say there isn't talent in the lottery part of the draft, but it's likely that even a mid first round pick would also have lots of talent similar to that of a lottery pick.

Also, if we are to entice a big name free agent or 2-3 above-average free agents next year, we should probably be winning games rather than tanking. Why would a big name FA choose to play for a team that isn't guaranteed to win a lot of games the next season considering they tanked the last one. If we win more games and make the playoffs FA's could be willing to actually come here.

Not saying that we are talented enough now to contend for a championship, of course we aren't. But surely we can aim at making the playoffs, even if its a low seed. At least we could prove that we are a playoff team and we can contend with more talent. If we just tank like last year and lose lots of games, there probably won't be much interest in coming to Boston.

Just my thoughts. Hoping for a good season nonetheless. Might be sounding too optimistic here but I feel like we tanked last year on purpose, and if we don't play to tank next year we can get a good record with Brad Stevens leading the way and D.A making the roster decisions (trade deadline), and possible make the playoffs in the somewhat weak East. By saying 'on purpose' I mean I felt we were a better team its just they were told to lose more games and tank, and that's also why we seemed to lose many close games last year that we could have won had we played to win at the end.

You lost me right there, unfortunately.  NO ONE EVER WANTS TO SIGN WITH THE CELTICS!  EVER!  I really wish that I was being sarcastic, but that's how it's always been.  Sigh.

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2014, 11:28:09 PM »

Offline Celtics251

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 27
  • Tommy Points: 4
I see a lot of people saying the Celtics should tank again to get another high draft pick. I don't think that's a good idea at all.

Next year's draft is deep. It is more deep than it is filled with talent at the 1-5 positions. That's not to say there isn't talent in the lottery part of the draft, but it's likely that even a mid first round pick would also have lots of talent similar to that of a lottery pick.

Also, if we are to entice a big name free agent or 2-3 above-average free agents next year, we should probably be winning games rather than tanking. Why would a big name FA choose to play for a team that isn't guaranteed to win a lot of games the next season considering they tanked the last one. If we win more games and make the playoffs FA's could be willing to actually come here.

Not saying that we are talented enough now to contend for a championship, of course we aren't. But surely we can aim at making the playoffs, even if its a low seed. At least we could prove that we are a playoff team and we can contend with more talent. If we just tank like last year and lose lots of games, there probably won't be much interest in coming to Boston.

Just my thoughts. Hoping for a good season nonetheless. Might be sounding too optimistic here but I feel like we tanked last year on purpose, and if we don't play to tank next year we can get a good record with Brad Stevens leading the way and D.A making the roster decisions (trade deadline), and possible make the playoffs in the somewhat weak East. By saying 'on purpose' I mean I felt we were a better team its just they were told to lose more games and tank, and that's also why we seemed to lose many close games last year that we could have won had we played to win at the end.

You lost me right there, unfortunately.  NO ONE EVER WANTS TO SIGN WITH THE CELTICS!  EVER!  I really wish that I was being sarcastic, but that's how it's always been.  Sigh.

-sigh- that is the truth. Although I love winter (my fav season), many people despise it, and Boston winters are snowy, cold, and most people hate Boston sports in general (idk why :P ).

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2014, 11:30:54 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3275
  • Tommy Points: 228
as our team is constituted right now we're not tanking. we'll be right where we were this yr. maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. depends if green has more "on" games or not. we'll be sniffing the playoffs with an outside chance of actually making it in.

this is worse than tanking. 

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2014, 11:39:11 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16068
  • Tommy Points: 990
I think we'll become the Atlanta Hawks at this rate.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2014, 11:45:06 PM »

Offline Waew

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 775
  • Tommy Points: 50

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2014, 12:04:33 AM »

Offline Smokeeye123

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2374
  • Tommy Points: 156
I have no problem playing young guys/guys in it for the long haul and winning games and becoming a fringe playoff team.

I do have a problem with playing guys like Bass and Green who have no long term future here and winning games.

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2014, 12:30:44 AM »

Offline green147

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 218
  • Tommy Points: 17
I see a lot of people saying the Celtics should tank again to get another high draft pick. I don't think that's a good idea at all.

Next year's draft is deep. It is more deep than it is filled with talent at the 1-5 positions. That's not to say there isn't talent in the lottery part of the draft, but it's likely that even a mid first round pick would also have lots of talent similar to that of a lottery pick.

Also, if we are to entice a big name free agent or 2-3 above-average free agents next year, we should probably be winning games rather than tanking. Why would a big name FA choose to play for a team that isn't guaranteed to win a lot of games the next season considering they tanked the last one. If we win more games and make the playoffs FA's could be willing to actually come here.

Not saying that we are talented enough now to contend for a championship, of course we aren't. But surely we can aim at making the playoffs, even if its a low seed. At least we could prove that we are a playoff team and we can contend with more talent. If we just tank like last year and lose lots of games, there probably won't be much interest in coming to Boston.

Just my thoughts. Hoping for a good season nonetheless. Might be sounding too optimistic here but I feel like we tanked last year on purpose, and if we don't play to tank next year we can get a good record with Brad Stevens leading the way and D.A making the roster decisions (trade deadline), and possible make the playoffs in the somewhat weak East. By saying 'on purpose' I mean I felt we were a better team its just they were told to lose more games and tank, and that's also why we seemed to lose many close games last year that we could have won had we played to win at the end.

You lost me right there, unfortunately.  NO ONE EVER WANTS TO SIGN WITH THE CELTICS!  EVER!  I really wish that I was being sarcastic, but that's how it's always been.  Sigh.

You ever been on any of the small market teams' blogs? I can't count how many T-Wolves, Bucks, Bobcats, and Hornets fans have said, "I bet XX just wants to play for the Celtics or Lakers." We aren't a small market team. No we are not sunny LA, and we do have state income taxes, but when we are winning, players want to play for the Celts. Nobody wants to play in a cold city for a team that's not winning...because if they're not going to win, they might as well play in Miami now.

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 12:39:12 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
when was the last time we had cap space to sign a significant free agent?

Better yet, when was the last time we had cap space and a good team to sign significant free agents?

The plan is to try and have that by the end of this season in one way, shape or form.
Mike Dyer did a really nice job of laying this out on celticslife.com the other day....these are his words:

So the Cs have $40 million in commitments for nine guys, and the cap is set at around $66.5 million. Obviously, this does not include Rajon Rondo, who is a free agent next summer, nor does it include their two 2015 first rounders. Pushing this exercise a little further, let's give Rondo a $16 million salary, and allot $5 million to two first round picks (around what the Celts will pay Smart/Young this year). We now have:

Rondo (estimate) - $16,000,000
Wallace - $10,105,855
Green - $9,200,000
Bradley - $8,000,000
Two 2015 1sts (estimate) - $5,000,000
Smart (approx) - $3,100,000
Zeller (option) - $2,616,975
Sullinger (option) - $2,269,260
Olynyk (option) - $2,165,160
Young (approx) - $1,600,000
Pressey (option): $947,276

Total (12 players): $61,004,526

The Celtics would suddenly have a roster with seven guys on their rookie deals, an average age of 24, a superstar in Rondo, and about $5 million in cap space. But that cap space could grow if Green declines his player option (somewhat likely to get a longer tern deal), or they move him. Suddenly the Celtics would have about $15 million in cap space for what is a loaded 2015 free agent class. And if they stretch Gerald Wallace -- lowering his cap hit from $10.1 to $3.3 million -- the Celtics would have about $21 million in space.

So, realistically, the Celtics could have:

Rondo
Bradley
Smart
Zeller
Sully
Olynyk
Young
Pressey
Two 2015 first round picks
$21 million in cap space
Three #1s in 2016
Right to flip with the Nets in 2017
Two 2018 #1s

And notice, I did absolutely nothing ridiculous. Simply re-signed Rondo to a very fair deal (something like 5/85), stretched Wallace next summer, and dumped Green between now and then. That's it.

So yes, the Celtics suddenly would have a very intriguing young roster, a star to attract free agents, and oodles of cap space.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2014, 12:45:05 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3097
  • Tommy Points: 191
  • Celtic's only raise championship Banners
I have no problem playing young guys/guys in it for the long haul and winning games and becoming a fringe playoff team.

I do have a problem with playing guys like Bass and Green who have no long term future here and winning games.

I have more problem with Bass than Green, but i share your your problem

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2014, 12:56:45 AM »

Online knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
The notion that top free agents won't ever sign with Boston is ridiculous.  People keep saying that no one ever has, which is true, but the Celtics have NEVER been in the running for a top free agent.  To attract a top free agent, you need cap space and enough talent already on the roster to contend, and this needs to be true during an offseason when there is a top player available in free agency.  The Celtics have never been in this position.

Have the Celtics ever lost a star player to free agency?  Or had a star player demand a trade?  This happens with star players all the time, but I don't recall it ever happening to the Celtics.  In recent years we have seen Carmelo wanting out of Denver, D Howard wanting out of Orlando and LA, and Chris Paul wanting out of New Orleans just to name a few.  When the Celtics stunk, Antoine Walker didn't want out, Pierce didn't want out then and he certainly didn't after they became contenders, and KG certainly didn't.  Rondo is insisting he wants to stay.  Allen left, but that was for more personal reasons.  During the great dynasties from the 50s through the 80s, we had many stars who also weren't requesting to leave.

Certainly warm weather and great night life is an attraction, but that's not the be all end all.  These guys spend half their time on the road anyway and live wherever they want in the offseason.  Players primarily want a chance to contend, a well run organization, to play where the fans care, and of course money.  The Red Sox sign top free agents all the time.  Sure baseball is played in the summer, but what about the Patriots?  A lot of top football players want to play for them and even take pay cuts to do so.  Why is that?  Football players play in the winter as well.  Do football players not care about sunny weather or a better nightlife than Boston has to offer while basketball players do?  Hardly. 

If we can build a team with ready talent while keeping cap space available, we will be an attractive free agent destination.  Personally, I think we need to tank another season to acquire more talent because I don't think the current roster is going to excite any top free agents to sign.  Unless we can trade for Love or another player of his calibre, I do think we need to tank by trading away Rondo and Green.  Otherwise, I'm afraid we will get stuck in mediocrity.  If we draft well, use our collection of other team's picks wisely while maintaining cap space, who knows... maybe in a couple of years we can sign a star through free agency.

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2014, 12:58:08 AM »

Offline Rondo9

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5379
  • Tommy Points: 277
Didn't Pierce demand a trade?

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2014, 02:18:11 AM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3821
  • Tommy Points: 378
a Healthier Rondo...an actual Center...a Coach who will want to win this season, instead of "developing" players...2 decent rookies---KO and Sully and Bradley improved + a couple of guys on Contract years...this team will win about 35-40 games...We somehow get KLove...we win 45-50 games...Would be nice if Wallace would retire though.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2014, 02:20:38 AM »

Offline manl_lui

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6571
  • Tommy Points: 427
In my honest opinion, yea next year's draft is pretty deep, especially in the 4 and 5 positions. But base on our luck this year, I doubt we will win the lotto anyways for that big name lotto pick (ie Okafor). Don't give me that crap about we didn't lose enough (my response will always be, dude, CLE won the 1st pick with better record than the 3-4 teams after it). We lost the coin toss and the lotto pick...I really don't want to try lady luck for the X amount of time

I say, let Brad Stevens really show us what he is capable of, in a 100% Rondo (No more excuses, Rondo lover, but next year, he better play as if he is 2012 Rondo). Bradley new contract (PROVE TO ME YOU ARE WORTH THAT MONEY), Green be a 2nd guy (better score at least 12-14 ppg every single game, can't go off 40 pts one game, then 8 pts the next). Sully better be averaging something like a 12 and 10. Not having high expectation, but I want this team to compete and win some close games. Maybe lower 40 wins. This team is by far no contender, but as some of you said, Boston is not max FA destination. But we better at least give them a reason to at least listen to our pitch with a winning culture and going in the right direction vs "we just want to tank for 2 years and hope for the best"

I expect Danny to make moves here and there, move Rondo or keep Rondo, idc to be honest. I trust Danny always have a few tricks up his sleeves

I want to actually root for my team to win and not you know "WHOO WE SUCK, LET'S HOPE WE GET A TOP 3 PICK!"

Re: Celtics shouldn't tank next year
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2014, 02:23:12 AM »

Offline danielthemaniel

  • Neemias Queta
  • Posts: 13
  • Tommy Points: 1
Hard to get a read on what direction Ainge wants to go in this season, assuming roster is basically set (which is another topic of discussion).  Ainge knows how to position the Celt's for a potential top pick w/bottom 5 record in both '07 and '14.  In the abstract, I like gunning for a top pick for another year or two, but the more talent Ainge brings aboard and the more they develop, the harder it is to do.  And who knows what the owners want/think, it's up to them what direction to go in at the end of the day.  Should be an another interesting year to see how it plays out.