No offense?

[vinnie]

We don't NEED any of these talented scorers listed above to score 20 points any given night.

The obvious point is that we have plenty of scoring talent on this team, and every reason to believe that most of them will be better this year than last year.

Rondo is finally healthy with a full offseason, and he is in a contract year, AND drafting Smart will give him even more motivation.

Bradley is another year older and had a great scoring year to build off of.

KO is more comfortable in the league and more confident in himself, and is a year older and stronger.

Sully isn't coming off back surgery and being immobilized all summer.

Thornton is in a contract year and is still in his prime.

Green is one more year removed from the trauma of life saving surgery, and he is in a contract year in a way. If he has a good year he can opt out of his contract and get big money like Hayward and Parsons.

Zeller will be playing with a pass first point guard for the first time in his young career, and his offseason weight gains won't be negated by appendectomy surgery, and he's a year older.

I think our offense is just fine, and obviously winning was not a high priority for Stevens last year, which is why he had Sully and Hump etc chucking away from 3 and bringing down our team FG% and team offensive stats.

We are in great shape guys, and we're going to put a bunch of guys in double figures every night.

We are in great shape? Great shape for what, to win 27-35 games?

[vinnie]

Me three. An athletic 6'7" shooting guard with a sweet stroke and calm alpha demeanor.

And I didn't even mention him in my "self-deceptive" overview of our competent scorers.

But we also added Thornton, so it's pretty self-deceptive to say we didn't add any scorers.

He may be scoring points this year, but it will likely be in Maine....

[Monkhouse]

I think Smart will be a great scorer ala James Harden/D. Wade, but not until at least 2-3 years. If he can improve his 3 pt shooting, and be able to draw fouls like them, I don't see why not.

James Young can also be a deadly player too.

[BballTim]

Hard to disagree, ejplaya. Rondo could make this offense average, or he could do what's best for Rondo and maximize his assists.

   I never knew until I came here how few people realized that players score more efficiently off of passes than they do otherwise. People somehow think it hurts the offense when he gets assists. That's actually not the case.

[hwangjini_1]

to consistently view the most optimistic scenario as if it were the most probable scenario is a form of self-deception.

The title of this thread is "No offense?"

I didn't say we'd be a high scoring team. I'm just saying we could have an average offense.

Sorry to rain on your misery parade.

It's ok. I always carry an umbrella. 

[Beat LA]

We had trouble scoring late in games with Ray Allen, PP and KG.   We are really going to have it now.

Watching the Clippers this year only served to proved the point that many people, including myself, have been making over the years - Doc's offense SUCKS!  I don't know if it's all him or Armond Hill, but either way, both of them are absolutely clueless.  You've got Rondo, Ray, Pierce, and KG on one team, and it doesn't even average 105 points a night?  That's pathetic, especially given the fact that their skills complimented each other so well.   

[EJPLAYA]

Hard to disagree, ejplaya. Rondo could make this offense average, or he could do what's best for Rondo and maximize his assists.

   I never knew until I came here how few people realized that players score more efficiently off of passes than they do otherwise. People somehow think it hurts the offense when he gets assists. That's actually not the case.

Typical comment from you BBALL TIM. Trying to insinuate people don't know what they are talking about to make your point. Clearly people must be "ignorant" and have no clue about basketball to think differently than you do. How about just trying to make a rebuttal instead of putting people's knowledge level down...

What you aren't discussing however is that Rondo's ball pounding and delay into deep into the shot clock eliminates many opportunities for that 2nd and third pass which often is the best shot of them all. That is what the 80's Celtics were so effective with and that is what this recent team of KG, PP and Ray were not as good at. Rondo's ball dominance costs us valuable shot clock time that often results in a poor last second shot going up and a less productive overall offense.

[LB3533]

Hard to disagree, ejplaya. Rondo could make this offense average, or he could do what's best for Rondo and maximize his assists.

   I never knew until I came here how few people realized that players score more efficiently off of passes than they do otherwise. People somehow think it hurts the offense when he gets assists. That's actually not the case.

All I can say on Rondo is it was miracle he was able to nearly pull off averaging nearly 10 apg this past season. He did that despite the devoid of talent on the team.

Monthly trends showed Rondo improving apg from Feb (9.9), Mar (11.1) to Apr (12.0).

In Apr - Rondo played in half (4) of the teams (Eight) games. Team scoring in Apr - 103.6 ppg on .458 FG%

Mar - Rondo 12 GP of team's 15. Team - 95.5 ppg on .424 FG%

Feb - Rondo 8 GP out of team's 11. Team - 99.2 ppg on .438 FG%

Make of it as you will. These are the statistics, the significance of these stats depends on the case you want to present.

Based on the past evidence we have, I prefer to have Rondo help the team play better than their season's average in 2 out of the 3 months (Feb + Apr) and just spot Rondo 1 out of the 3 months (Mar) because that's just life....can't play "hall of fame" worthy every month in the course of season. So 2 out of 3 is something to build on. And it's not exactly 2 full months for Rondo, more like 1 month + 4 games, but coaching/injuries & front office motivations all factor into if a player plays or not.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Hard to disagree, ejplaya. Rondo could make this offense average, or he could do what's best for Rondo and maximize his assists.

   I never knew until I came here how few people realized that players score more efficiently off of passes than they do otherwise. People somehow think it hurts the offense when he gets assists. That's actually not the case.

Typical comment from you BBALL TIM. Trying to insinuate people don't know what they are talking about to make your point. Clearly people must be "ignorant" and have no clue about basketball to think differently than you do. How about just trying to make a rebuttal instead of putting people's knowledge level down...

What you aren't discussing however is that Rondo's ball pounding and delay into deep into the shot clock eliminates many opportunities for that 2nd and third pass which often is the best shot of them all. That is what the 80's Celtics were so effective with and that is what this recent team of KG, PP and Ray were not as good at. Rondo's ball dominance costs us valuable shot clock time that often results in a poor last second shot going up and a less productive overall offense.

The thread is called "no offense"!

Don't take offense!

[Yenohb]

The most underrated offseason aqcuisitions IMO, considering they'll be playing now with the best passing point guard in the league..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbD5c7BKGoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nhEQtTAxD4

[Vox_Populi]

Hard to disagree, ejplaya. Rondo could make this offense average, or he could do what's best for Rondo and maximize his assists.

   I never knew until I came here how few people realized that players score more efficiently off of passes than they do otherwise. People somehow think it hurts the offense when he gets assists. That's actually not the case.

What you aren't discussing however is that Rondo's ball pounding and delay into deep into the shot clock eliminates many opportunities for that 2nd and third pass which often is the best shot of them all. That is what the 80's Celtics were so effective with and that is what this recent team of KG, PP and Ray were not as good at. Rondo's ball dominance costs us valuable shot clock time that often results in a poor last second shot going up and a less productive overall offense.

This season, the Celtics' percentage of shots taken in the first 15 seconds of the shot clock was 64%. A higher percentage than teams with better ball movement like the Heat, Spurs and Hawks. And the percentages for the last three seasons were 63%, 61% and 58%.

Shots taken late in the shot-clock are usually bad, for all teams. But the Celtics don't take any more late shots than any other team.

[BballTim]

Hard to disagree, ejplaya. Rondo could make this offense average, or he could do what's best for Rondo and maximize his assists.

   I never knew until I came here how few people realized that players score more efficiently off of passes than they do otherwise. People somehow think it hurts the offense when he gets assists. That's actually not the case.

Typical comment from you BBALL TIM. Trying to insinuate people don't know what they are talking about to make your point. Clearly people must be "ignorant" and have no clue about basketball to think differently than you do. How about just trying to make a rebuttal instead of putting people's knowledge level down...

What you aren't discussing however is that Rondo's ball pounding and delay into deep into the shot clock eliminates many opportunities for that 2nd and third pass which often is the best shot of them all. That is what the 80's Celtics were so effective with and that is what this recent team of KG, PP and Ray were not as good at. Rondo's ball dominance costs us valuable shot clock time that often results in a poor last second shot going up and a less productive overall offense.

  Why don't you show some evidence of what you're claiming? Then we could actually discuss it. Do we take more shots late in the shot clock than most teams? Did our percentage of shots late in the shot clock in the big three era soar as Rondo's ball dominance increased? Do we play at a slower pace when Rondo's in the game? Also, the number of shots we take at the end of the shot clock didn't really go down after Rondo's injury in 2013, or go up after Rondo came back into the lineup in 2014. How do you account for that?

  I'm guessing you won't be able to find any evidence of something you think happens all the time, but if you do we can certainly discuss it. 

[More Banners]

Hard to disagree, ejplaya. Rondo could make this offense average, or he could do what's best for Rondo and maximize his assists.

   I never knew until I came here how few people realized that players score more efficiently off of passes than they do otherwise. People somehow think it hurts the offense when he gets assists. That's actually not the case.

Typical comment from you BBALL TIM. Trying to insinuate people don't know what they are talking about to make your point. Clearly people must be "ignorant" and have no clue about basketball to think differently than you do. How about just trying to make a rebuttal instead of putting people's knowledge level down...

What you aren't discussing however is that Rondo's ball pounding and delay into deep into the shot clock eliminates many opportunities for that 2nd and third pass which often is the best shot of them all. That is what the 80's Celtics were so effective with and that is what this recent team of KG, PP and Ray were not as good at. Rondo's ball dominance costs us valuable shot clock time that often results in a poor last second shot going up and a less productive overall offense.

  Why don't you show some evidence of what you're claiming? Then we could actually discuss it. Do we take more shots late in the shot clock than most teams? Did our percentage of shots late in the shot clock in the big three era soar as Rondo's ball dominance increased? Do we play at a slower pace when Rondo's in the game? Also, the number of shots we take at the end of the shot clock didn't really go down after Rondo's injury in 2013, or go up after Rondo came back into the lineup in 2014. How do you account for that?

  I'm guessing you won't be able to find any evidence of something you think happens all the time, but if you do we can certainly discuss it.

I suppose Rondo had to have the ball in his hands so people would, if not actually guard him outside the paint, at least pay attention to the fact that he was on the court.

Rondo is just beginning to show a jumper out to 16ft.  Will he still be the guy with the ball in a motion O, or will he pass and cut like everyone else?

For the last couple of years, he stood and watched (or directed, if you prefer) the offense until one pass was made for a shot.  Usually good passes, occasionally amazing, and nice finishes from teammates.

But it doesn't (or shouldn't) take advanced metrics to have noticed that, when Rondo was playing regularly - which is when Doc was coaching - he pounded the leather like he had some sort of cow fettish.  No getting around that.  He can do more, I think, but that's what Doc had him doing.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Didn't mmmmm do a whole writeup on this very topic? It seemed pretty reasonable to me.

Just because some aren't as skeptical about our current players as others doesn't mean they're Celtic-homer-evangelicals. Extreme skepticism is not realism.

[OhioGreen]

Our problem isn't scoring, it's scoring the the last 5 minutes of a game----crunch time!  When the other team, after coasting all game, finally gets in all out mad dog defensive mode and tries to completely shut you down!  It's when you need a CLOSER, a guy that can CONSISTENTLY score in this time.  We don't have that player now!
We even struggled with PP, KG and RA in crunch time, and only succeeded because of their superior passing skills, ala, the SAS!  And, PP was a CLOSER, but as he got older became less adept at it, and more prone to TO's!
Until we get a NEW CLOSER, we'll continue to struggle mightily, and not be in contention for anything but a high lottery pick!