Author Topic: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love  (Read 8263 times)

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Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2014, 10:52:18 AM »

Offline RyNye

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I'm not sold that Wiggins is ever going to be the superstar people seem to think he will be.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2014, 10:56:27 AM »

Offline Waew

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I'm not sold that Wiggins is ever going to be the superstar people seem to think he will be.
even if he's not a superstar, he has the chance to be groomed by lebron and extend the cavs window by another decade potentially after lebron retires

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2014, 11:00:17 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I'm not sold that Wiggins is ever going to be the superstar people seem to think he will be.
even if he's not a superstar, he has the chance to be groomed by lebron and extend the cavs window by another decade potentially after lebron retires
some lofty expectations.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2014, 11:08:54 AM »

Offline footey

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I'm not sold that Wiggins is ever going to be the superstar people seem to think he will be.

Too soon to say. He has the tools; few do.  Question is whether he has the heart.  Don't yet know the answer. Not sure he is the alpha dog type.  But I would not trade that potential away. Wonder what his new coach sees in him during summer league.  His opinion may weigh a lot for the front office in making its decision on whether or not to make him available.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2014, 11:20:53 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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They wont trade him for love.

They offered bennett , waiters and a 1st but wolves wont bite (unless they have no choice).


Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2014, 11:37:13 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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I'm not sold that Wiggins is ever going to be the superstar people seem to think he will be.

Too soon to say. He has the tools; few do.  Question is whether he has the heart.  Don't yet know the answer. Not sure he is the alpha dog type.  But I would not trade that potential away. Wonder what his new coach sees in him during summer league.  His opinion may weigh a lot for the front office in making its decision on whether or not to make him available.

He doesn't NEED to have the heart if he's playing alongside LeBron.  Team can only have one alpha-dog, anyway. 

Not sure if I'd trade him for Love, but I'd think about it; LeBron/Love/Irving is a helluva trio to compete with right away.  Cavs would have a real good shot at winning the conference next season; only real competition would be Chicago, *if* they manage to land 'Melo.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2014, 11:39:53 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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What you folks aren't considering is the young high level prospects such as Irving, Wiggins, Bennett (Yes, Bennett.) extending the window for an ADDITIONAL 5-7 years AFTER LeBron is toast. Consider the young talent and it's perfectly reasonable to project that this team will contend for a decade and a half.

Young players normally take a few years to develop.  We should understand that... Billups, Joe Johnson.  Look at the Cavs roster.

Irving, #1 pick, 22 years old
Thompson, #4 pick, 23 years old
Waiters, #4 pick, 22 years old
Bennet, #1 pick, 21 years old
Wiggins, #1 pick, 19 years old

These guys are going to get better fastand their primes will last 10-12 years.  They will provide Lebron excellent depth.  Add veteran role players who would love to play with Lebron and there is no reason they couldn't win a championship in a couple of years, if not next year.  Does anyone think that a 38 year old Lebron won't still be excellent?  Given his size, strength and skill set, he could still be effective at 40.

That young talent on Cleveland, I think, is just as big a reason for LeBron's return as anything else.  Miami's been decaying for the past few years, and given their lack of draft picks, salary commitments, and lack of high-end young talent on the roster, it's hard to see how they've get rejuvenated.  They pretty much became a dumping ground for reclamation projects and former stars on their last legs.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2014, 12:00:35 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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LeBron couldn't mentor a bag of potatoes... stop that nonsense.

I hope Wiggins goes to a team with a good GM and Coach who teach the kid the right way to play the game, instead of taking 5 steps to dunk the ball, or flop like Neymar like LeBron does. Not that the Wolves have that, but at least watching Wiggins play with Rubio would be fun. The best thing that can happen to Wiggins and Bennett is getting away from the Cavs. Remember the game is played with just a basketball to share with those ballhogs Irving and Waiters, and now "The Chosen One".

And yeah, the Cavs would be insane to trade Wiggins for Avi Lee with a 3-point shot, but LeBron isn't getting any younger, and by the time Wiggins and Bennett are able to improve their games, LeFlop will be too old to dominate games anymore. Talk about windows closing...

Can't wait for that Love for Wiggins+Bennett trade to happen, and then watch the Cavs fail miserably for the next 3 years  ;D

To the contrary, I think LeBron has the personality to be a great tutor to Wiggs.   In that respect he is not a screamer like Kobe or even MJ.  He seems more generous (would Kobe have agreed to take a discount like LBJ did with the Heat 4 years ago?) and this trait is reflected in his game, which is very team oriented, similar to Magic and Bird in that regard. To equate him to Waiters and Irving makes no sense.

I wasn't comparing him to Irving or Waiters, who are the ballhogs, but LeBron also needs the ball in his hands, and they still only have one basketball to share.

LeBron is only about himself, you need a more mature personality to mentor anyone, and LeBron talks like a 10 year-old spoiled brat. "I could shoot 40-50-90 if I made it my goal" doesn't sound like a mature guy.

LeBron can't teach his game, because his game is based on his freak athleticism, his ability to handle the ball, his crab dribble and an improving (credit to his hard work) jumpshoot. He's a physical monster, a great basketball player, but not a leader in my book. Bird had 10 times more skill and was 10 times the leader LeBron is, but we live in ESPN/Nike/Stern-Silver NBA where MJ is the GOAT and LBJ is the 'Chosen One'. But that's another story.

LeBron took a discount to get more endorsements, he wasn't taking one for the team. He also was giving up that money to buy easy championships so he could build his legacy as a winner. Generous? I don't think so.

Of course, compared to MJ or Kobe, LBJ is a nice kid, but a spoiled brat in the end.


Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2014, 12:11:08 PM »

Offline thehumburger

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I'm not sold that Wiggins is ever going to be the superstar people seem to think he will be.

Too soon to say. He has the tools; few do.  Question is whether he has the heart.  Don't yet know the answer. Not sure he is the alpha dog type.  But I would not trade that potential away. Wonder what his new coach sees in him during summer league.  His opinion may weigh a lot for the front office in making its decision on whether or not to make him available.

He has the athleticism, but he doesn't yet have the tools, i.e. basketball skills. As the ESPN quote by a previous poster said, and what has been one of his major criticisms, he isn't a good dribbler. He doesn't have a good handle. He's good in the open court when his athleticism is on full display, but in the half court when defenses are locked in, he isn't good at creating his own shot. That's why he tends to disappear at times, like Jeff Green. People too often chalk this up to not having "heart" but that's not what it is. It's that he isn't skilled enough of a basketball player yet to excel consistently in those situations.

This is why I think it's crazy to just assume this guy is going to be the type of star that can carry LeBron to championships 5 - 7 years from now. If he develops the tools he will but it's far from a guarantee. I think he'll still be very good and the Cavs transition game would be something to see, but if the Wolves demand Wiggins in a trade for Love, I would absolutely do it. Love is a legit star now, his game complements LeBron perfectly, and Irving/Love/LeBron would be 22/26/29 heading into this year, by far the best trio in the league and the championship favorite every year for probably the next 7 years.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 12:21:47 PM by thehumburger »

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2014, 12:36:55 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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I'm not sold that Wiggins is ever going to be the superstar people seem to think he will be.

Too soon to say. He has the tools; few do.  Question is whether he has the heart.  Don't yet know the answer. Not sure he is the alpha dog type.  But I would not trade that potential away. Wonder what his new coach sees in him during summer league.  His opinion may weigh a lot for the front office in making its decision on whether or not to make him available.

He has the athleticism, but he doesn't yet have the tools, i.e. basketball skills. As the ESPN quote by a previous poster said, and what has been one of his major criticisms, he isn't a good dribbler. He doesn't have a good handle. He's good in the open court when his athleticism is on full display, but in the half court when defenses are locked in, he isn't good at creating his own shot. That's why he tends to disappear at times, like Jeff Green. People too often chalk this up to not having "heart" but that's not what it is. It's that he isn't skilled enough of a basketball player yet to excel consistently in those situations.


The good news for Wiggins is you aren't being asked to handle the ball much with a team that has LeBron and Kyrie Irving on it.

And it isn't skill that prevents for example Jeff Green from scoring more often.  It's approach to the game mentally.  Jeff is extremely skilled for his size (which is why people wonder why he doesn't do more with his skill).

He just doesn't look at a defense and see or approach the game in an attack mode.  This is part of what separates players at the NBA level.  Most of them are great athletes.  Many can shoot.  Only some see the right angles and have the confidence to keep attacking.  Only some really want contact and go after it.  There are some players that could take it physically but don't.

But I don't put much stock in it with Wiggins.  People have said this about other good players before.  And it means he could be a pretty efficient player (he doesn't look to jack shots).

Wiggins also should be a great defender and I have to bring that up since many will ignore it.  Having James and him on your wings could be incredible from a defensive perspective.

Anyways, as I said at the start of this post, the weakest part of his game is not an issue on this team.  He will be getting fed by LeBron and Irving and I think he will do very well in that role.  It's the best situation you could put him in.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 12:49:07 PM by Snakehead »
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Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2014, 12:48:21 PM »

Offline Geo123

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They wont trade him for love.

They offered bennett , waiters and a 1st but wolves wont bite (unless they have no choice).

The already have a better offer from GS even if it doesn't include Thompson plus depending on what the Celts offer it may be better...  To me Waiters hasn't proven anything, Bennet was a complete bust last year and the # 1 will be very low.  That's a bad trade offer that 5 or 6 teams should be able to beat.   

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2014, 01:00:05 PM »

Offline Robb

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I agree with the person who says they could have 12-15 years of contention. Sure LeBron is in the latter half of his career, but with his skillset he can be effective for a LONG time leading up to and through Kyrie, Bennett's and Ender's prime. Why rock this boat?

this would be a classic example of what not to do. typical "dreams of a dynasty" instead of just focusing on getting 1.

the cavs have the ability to get good players now that they'll know what they're going to get out of them. they don't know what they're going to get from the young guys.

and taking a chance on what condition Lebron will be in in 5 yrs. is an even bigger mistake. I know "he's better than Jordan" and all, and so that means he's going to play longer and be immune to age. but banking on that is a pretty big gamble.

I think the Cavs are well aware of what going for one accomplished for them last time. Hemorrhaging all of their assets to appease Bron did no favors for them the first seven years of his career and only opened him to ridiculous amounts of criticism and those expectations ultimately led him to leave (what you're seeing right now with Anthony Davis, too, it seems). I think his letter gave them the ability to manage expectations and time to make the *right* deal, which very well could be Kevin Love, but it doesn't *have* to be, and they certainly don't have to overpay.
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Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2014, 01:03:43 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I agree with the person who says they could have 12-15 years of contention. Sure LeBron is in the latter half of his career, but with his skillset he can be effective for a LONG time leading up to and through Kyrie, Bennett's and Ender's prime. Why rock this boat?

this would be a classic example of what not to do. typical "dreams of a dynasty" instead of just focusing on getting 1.

the cavs have the ability to get good players now that they'll know what they're going to get out of them. they don't know what they're going to get from the young guys.

and taking a chance on what condition Lebron will be in in 5 yrs. is an even bigger mistake. I know "he's better than Jordan" and all, and so that means he's going to play longer and be immune to age. but banking on that is a pretty big gamble.

I think the Cavs are well aware of what going for one accomplished for them last time. Hemorrhaging all of their assets to appease Bron did no favors for them the first seven years of his career and only opened him to ridiculous amounts of criticism and those expectations ultimately led him to leave (what you're seeing right now with Anthony Davis, too, it seems). I think his letter gave them the ability to manage expectations and time to make the *right* deal, which very well could be Kevin Love, but it doesn't *have* to be, and they certainly don't have to overpay.

Yeah but they never went for a top ten talent like love. Shaq and Antawn were well past their primes. Williams was their best acquisition and he's no where near love. Love is coming into his prime and is an elite force. It's not even close.


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Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2014, 01:20:34 PM »

Offline thehumburger

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He has the athleticism, but he doesn't yet have the tools, i.e. basketball skills. As the ESPN quote by a previous poster said, and what has been one of his major criticisms, he isn't a good dribbler. He doesn't have a good handle. He's good in the open court when his athleticism is on full display, but in the half court when defenses are locked in, he isn't good at creating his own shot. That's why he tends to disappear at times, like Jeff Green. People too often chalk this up to not having "heart" but that's not what it is. It's that he isn't skilled enough of a basketball player yet to excel consistently in those situations.

The good news for Wiggins is you aren't being asked to handle the ball much with a team that has LeBron and Kyrie Irving on it.

And it isn't skill that prevents for example Jeff Green from scoring more often.  It's approach to the game mentally.  Jeff is extremely skilled for his size (which is why people wonder why he doesn't do more with his skill).

He just doesn't look at a defense and see or approach the game in an attack mode.  This is part of what separates players at the NBA level.  Most of them are great athletes.  Many can shoot.  Only some see the right angles and have the confidence to keep attacking.  Only some really want contact and go after it.  There are some players that could take it physically but don't.

But I don't put much stock in it with Wiggins.  People have said this about other good players before.  And it means he could be a pretty efficient player (he doesn't look to jack shots).

Wiggins also should be a great defender and I have to bring that up since many will ignore it.  Having James and him on your wings could be incredible from a defensive perspective.

Anyways, as I said at the start of this post, the weakest part of his game is not an issue on this team.  He will be getting fed by LeBron and Irving and I think he will do very well in that role.  It's the best situation you could put him in.

I agree it would be a great situation for Wiggins now, and the Cavs would be very good now with him (though def not as good as with Love now). But I was talking more about Wiggins 5 - 7 years from now and people saying he will be able to carry LeBron to championships at that point. He would have to develop into a star for that to be true, which means having a good handle and being able to create his own shot against good half court defenses, and there's no guarantee of that.

As far as Jeff Green, I disagree that it's simply his mentality that prevents him from scoring more--while maintaining a good shooting percentage, of course (though I realize that a lot of people do believe that). He took 14.3 shots/gm which was the most of his career and he shot 41%FG, the worst percentage of his career. If he took more shots he would likely shoot an even worse percentage. The reason his percentages were so low is he was a focal point of defenses and he isn't skilled enough to create better shots and hit contested shots. Attacking more and taking more shots doesn't fix that; being a more skilled basketball player does.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 02:00:57 PM by thehumburger »

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2014, 01:47:00 PM »

Offline Chief Macho

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i'd make that trade without a second thought.   love fits this team better and is still really young.  i just don't see wiggins as a transcendent talent.   sure he's got it physically,  but he doesn't have the basketball iq of a superstar like was so obvious with lebron.   i see him more like a tracy mcgrady type or vince carter.    he'll be really good.   love makes them a championship contender next season.