Author Topic: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love  (Read 8264 times)

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Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2014, 02:38:02 AM »

Offline colincb

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ESPN:

Quote
Andrew Wiggins, Cleveland Cavaliers | Grade: C+
Wiggins found ways to score inside, but his aversion to dribbling was well on display Friday. The athleticism, defense and transition game are all there. One of the most exciting plays of the entire day was a half-court alley-oop that just barely went over the fingertips of the flying Wiggins. Yes, 18 points look good, but a 1-for-8 night from 3-point range looks a little worse, and the way he got those points still needs to improve.

Jabari Parker, Milwaukee Bucks | Grade: A-
All we hear about Parker is his skills as a scorer, but on Friday we saw some of his distributing ability. The rookie may have only totaled one assist, but he moved the ball within the Bucks offense and had a couple of beautiful interior passes to set up his teammates. Parker still scored at a commendable rate -- 17 points on 11 shots -- but in Las Vegas, between the facilitating and the nine boards, he showed exactly why he’s so much more than just a scorer.

Saw it pretty much the same. Lot more impressed by Parker.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2014, 09:24:00 AM »

Offline footey

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ESPN:

Quote
Andrew Wiggins, Cleveland Cavaliers | Grade: C+
Wiggins found ways to score inside, but his aversion to dribbling was well on display Friday. The athleticism, defense and transition game are all there. One of the most exciting plays of the entire day was a half-court alley-oop that just barely went over the fingertips of the flying Wiggins. Yes, 18 points look good, but a 1-for-8 night from 3-point range looks a little worse, and the way he got those points still needs to improve.

Jabari Parker, Milwaukee Bucks | Grade: A-
All we hear about Parker is his skills as a scorer, but on Friday we saw some of his distributing ability. The rookie may have only totaled one assist, but he moved the ball within the Bucks offense and had a couple of beautiful interior passes to set up his teammates. Parker still scored at a commendable rate -- 17 points on 11 shots -- but in Las Vegas, between the facilitating and the nine boards, he showed exactly why he’s so much more than just a scorer.

Saw it pretty much the same. Lot more impressed by Parker.

Parker had a nice game.  But he is not in the same stratosphere as Wiggins as an NBA prospect. Night and day.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2014, 09:36:46 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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Bennett looked a lot better now that he's healthy. #1 pick? Not sure yet, but he could be a really good stretch 4. Maybe the same style player as Love on a cheaper contract. Wiggins looked good in the second half. He can hit the 3 when he's set up.

I think Moving all the pieces for Love would set them back to were they were in Miami. That would be 3 big contracts and no room to add guys.

At least with Wiggins and Bennett they have a few years before they get there next contract. Lebron will take less in his final contract and they will still be really good. I also saw a tweet from Lebron saying he was excited to play with Bennett and Waiters, could just be saying crap. Or he wants them to stay and work with them and build a Spurs like franchise with the owners. We'll see if he's learned anything.

I have a feeling they could pass on the Love thing, wait for FA next summer, and possible pick up Gasol(Mark) or DeAndre Jordan.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2014, 09:42:07 AM »

Offline Jon

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People keep forgetting that LeBron is turning 30 this year and has already played 11 NBA seasons. There isn't a 12-15 year window as someone in the thread said. At best, he has 5-7 years of playing at a high level, but given the wear and tear on his body already as a high school entrant, it could be less.

Thus, every year that they don't win a championship is a year closer to the end of that window and another year where he could go the way of KG and get some injury where he's never quite exactly the same.

So the question with Wiggins isn't so much what his ceiling is, but how quickly it is going to take him to get there. Because if it is going to take Wiggins 3-4 years to become a star, it doesn't matter how good he's going to be if LeBron is already going to be on the decline.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2014, 10:02:37 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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People keep forgetting that LeBron is turning 30 this year and has already played 11 NBA seasons. There isn't a 12-15 year window as someone in the thread said. At best, he has 5-7 years of playing at a high level, but given the wear and tear on his body already as a high school entrant, it could be less.

Thus, every year that they don't win a championship is a year closer to the end of that window and another year where he could go the way of KG and get some injury where he's never quite exactly the same.

So the question with Wiggins isn't so much what his ceiling is, but how quickly it is going to take him to get there. Because if it is going to take Wiggins 3-4 years to become a star, it doesn't matter how good he's going to be if LeBron is already going to be on the decline.

A declining Lebron will still be an outstanding player.  I think that's all the more reason to hold onto Wiggins.  It could extend their championship window 7-8 years.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2014, 10:06:16 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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People keep forgetting that LeBron is turning 30 this year and has already played 11 NBA seasons. There isn't a 12-15 year window as someone in the thread said. At best, he has 5-7 years of playing at a high level, but given the wear and tear on his body already as a high school entrant, it could be less.

Thus, every year that they don't win a championship is a year closer to the end of that window and another year where he could go the way of KG and get some injury where he's never quite exactly the same.

So the question with Wiggins isn't so much what his ceiling is, but how quickly it is going to take him to get there. Because if it is going to take Wiggins 3-4 years to become a star, it doesn't matter how good he's going to be if LeBron is already going to be on the decline.

well said! TP'd ya

I don't see how anybody can't understand this logic. the cavs now have a window, they need to surround Lebron with players that can help NOW not 3-4 yrs. from now.

as great as it would be to see Wiggins become a stud like jordan in 3-4 yrs. and win championships and all of that. it'll be way worse if in 3-4 yrs. and realize he's only jeff green.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2014, 10:08:52 AM »

Offline Robb

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I think his letter was particularly telling in that he didn't expect to win championships immediately. I think that let's the Cavs off of the hook for trying to immediately throw other big names around him to try to please him. They literally have four winning lottery tickets and he best of them all able to help the other three reach their potential. Why bother depleting the cupboard? I agree with the person who says they could have 12-15 years of contention. Sure LeBron is in the latter half of his career, but with his skillset he can be effective for a LONG time leading up to and through Kyrie, Bennett's and Ender's prime. Why rock this boat?
We're the ones we've been waiting for.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2014, 10:14:19 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I think his letter was particularly telling in that he didn't expect to win championships immediately. I think that let's the Cavs off of the hook for trying to immediately throw other big names around him to try to please him. They literally have four winning lottery tickets and he best of them all able to help the other three reach their potential. Why bother depleting the cupboard? I agree with the person who says they could have 12-15 years of contention. Sure LeBron is in the latter half of his career, but with his skillset he can be effective for a LONG time leading up to and through Kyrie, Bennett's and Ender's prime. Why rock this boat?

I absolutely agree.  Trading for Love will not only deplete them of young talent with high upside, but paying him $20+ will limit what they can pay others.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2014, 10:14:27 AM »

Offline JSD

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What you folks aren't considering is the young high level prospects such as Irving, Wiggins, Bennett (Yes, Bennett.) extending the window for an ADDITIONAL 5-7 years AFTER LeBron is toast. Consider the young talent and it's perfectly reasonable to project that this team will contend for a decade and a half.
The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2014, 10:28:03 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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What you folks aren't considering is the young high level prospects such as Irving, Wiggins, Bennett (Yes, Bennett.) extending the window for an ADDITIONAL 5-7 years AFTER LeBron is toast. Consider the young talent and it's perfectly reasonable to project that this team will contend for a decade and a half.

Young players normally take a few years to develop.  We should understand that... Billups, Joe Johnson.  Look at the Cavs roster.

Irving, #1 pick, 22 years old
Thompson, #4 pick, 23 years old
Waiters, #4 pick, 22 years old
Bennet, #1 pick, 21 years old
Wiggins, #1 pick, 19 years old

These guys are going to get better fastand their primes will last 10-12 years.  They will provide Lebron excellent depth.  Add veteran role players who would love to play with Lebron and there is no reason they couldn't win a championship in a couple of years, if not next year.  Does anyone think that a 38 year old Lebron won't still be excellent?  Given his size, strength and skill set, he could still be effective at 40.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2014, 10:33:49 AM »

Offline aporel#18

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LeBron couldn't mentor a bag of potatoes... stop that nonsense.

I hope Wiggins goes to a team with a good GM and Coach who teach the kid the right way to play the game, instead of taking 5 steps to dunk the ball, or flop like Neymar like LeBron does. Not that the Wolves have that, but at least watching Wiggins play with Rubio would be fun. The best thing that can happen to Wiggins and Bennett is getting away from the Cavs. Remember the game is played with just a basketball to share with those ballhogs Irving and Waiters, and now "The Chosen One".

And yeah, the Cavs would be insane to trade Wiggins for Avi Lee with a 3-point shot, but LeBron isn't getting any younger, and by the time Wiggins and Bennett are able to improve their games, LeFlop will be too old to dominate games anymore. Talk about windows closing...

Can't wait for that Love for Wiggins+Bennett trade to happen, and then watch the Cavs fail miserably for the next 3 years  ;D


Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2014, 10:46:19 AM »

Offline HomerSapien

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From a legacy perspective, this is a brilliant decision. He will be the man for 3-5 years, and then he will be a passenger on a train driven by two young superstars for 5 more. All the while the media will talk about him like he's the old, wise sage mentor who made these ubertalented guys what they are.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2014, 10:47:02 AM »

Offline footey

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LeBron couldn't mentor a bag of potatoes... stop that nonsense.

I hope Wiggins goes to a team with a good GM and Coach who teach the kid the right way to play the game, instead of taking 5 steps to dunk the ball, or flop like Neymar like LeBron does. Not that the Wolves have that, but at least watching Wiggins play with Rubio would be fun. The best thing that can happen to Wiggins and Bennett is getting away from the Cavs. Remember the game is played with just a basketball to share with those ballhogs Irving and Waiters, and now "The Chosen One".

And yeah, the Cavs would be insane to trade Wiggins for Avi Lee with a 3-point shot, but LeBron isn't getting any younger, and by the time Wiggins and Bennett are able to improve their games, LeFlop will be too old to dominate games anymore. Talk about windows closing...

Can't wait for that Love for Wiggins+Bennett trade to happen, and then watch the Cavs fail miserably for the next 3 years  ;D

To the contrary, I think LeBron has the personality to be a great tutor to Wiggs.   In that respect he is not a screamer like Kobe or even MJ.  He seems more generous (would Kobe have agreed to take a discount like LBJ did with the Heat 4 years ago?) and this trait is reflected in his game, which is very team oriented, similar to Magic and Bird in that regard. To equate him to Waiters and Irving makes no sense.

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2014, 10:47:55 AM »

Offline footey

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From a legacy perspective, this is a brilliant decision. He will be the man for 3-5 years, and then he will be a passenger on a train driven by two young superstars for 5 more. All the while the media will talk about him like he's the old, wise sage mentor who made these ubertalented guys what they are.

Agreed. TP

Re: Cleveland Would be Insane to Trade Wiggins for Love
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2014, 10:49:36 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I agree with the person who says they could have 12-15 years of contention. Sure LeBron is in the latter half of his career, but with his skillset he can be effective for a LONG time leading up to and through Kyrie, Bennett's and Ender's prime. Why rock this boat?

this would be a classic example of what not to do. typical "dreams of a dynasty" instead of just focusing on getting 1.

the cavs have the ability to get good players now that they'll know what they're going to get out of them. they don't know what they're going to get from the young guys.

and taking a chance on what condition Lebron will be in in 5 yrs. is an even bigger mistake. I know "he's better than Jordan" and all, and so that means he's going to play longer and be immune to age. but banking on that is a pretty big gamble.