DA / Catastrophic Mistake

[bhbf08]

so once again...i hear about all these mythical teams like la and gs that were supposedly going to step up to plate...so now you're going to tell me...since it was de facto a done deal...we might as well beat them to the punch...i'll say it again...PROVE that there was another team READY to step up to plate...i just hear conjectures...PROVE it...

No, you PROVE that it wasn't going to happen.  Go ahead, PROVE something that didn't happen just like you are asking us to do.  It's impossible both ways!  You can't prove something that did not happen.  NOBODY, including YOU, know what was going to happen, but the chances of NOBODY taking that deal to get Zeller and a 1st for NOTHING is slim.  There is no proof of anything, but to think Lebron doesn't go to CLE if the celtics don't step in is .. .well ....  just silly. I hate to think you actually believe that.

What REALLY happened was Danny knows all of that and jumped in to get the assets before someone else did.  Danny is no fool.  Danny does not spend his time on here looking for advice either.  He's built a winner and he will do so again.  Who cares anyways, it was either the big 3 in Miami, or a new team in CLE.  1 of which leaves us with more assets.  Simple decision.   

[RJ87]

i love the terms common sense and denying reality...what a bunch of fluff...that basically means you got nothing and are dealing in hypotheticals...

Pretty much the premise of this thread then right? You don't have any concrete "evidence" that there WEREN'T any other offers as well, but continue.

hello...i never said that there WEREN"T concrete offers...i object to the idea that people were just lining up, slobbering at the mouth, to take that offer...people are making zeller, thorton and a late first to be like the mchale and parish trade...as usual here on celtic blog...let's start over-rating our own players and make this trade into some kind of a blockbuster...

I haven't seen those posts. I just people recognizing that DA made a solid move to help this team - we get a young guy that fills a position of MAJOR need for us in Zeller, and another 1st rounder to add to our treasure chest of picks basically for renting cap to take on Thornton. If it wasn't us, it would've been another team GSW, Philly, Lakers just to name a few that this sort of deal would've appealed to. In fact, LA just did this with Houston for Lin and a 1st. I wouldn't be surprised if Philly did something similar with NYK for Amar'e so they can add Shumpert.

No one is saying it's a blockbuster but it's a solid move for this team. We can't let opportunities pass us by while clinging onto the idea of Kevin Love. Which - as I said before - we were likely out of after draft night.

[rutzan]

i love the terms common sense and denying reality...what a bunch of fluff...that basically means you got nothing and are dealing in hypotheticals...

Pretty much the premise of this thread then right? You don't have any concrete "evidence" that there WEREN'T any other offers as well, but continue.

You logic is too logical for this illogical person.

Lakers just broke the cardinal rule too, since they traded with Houston....ALL THE RULES ARE BREAKING 

i agree with you...look at the lakers chances now...not only did you have sa, okc, port, clippers...you just added hou...hou is going to sigh bosh and parsons...so getting lin and a late first is worth putting one more team ahead of you...i don't buy it...why help your competiton get better..do you really think lin and a late first is such a coup...

[slamtheking]

so basically...the logic here is get something for nothing...i love it...are people really going to tell me that zeller, thorton and a late 1st is some kind of blockbuster for us...reality check please...the fatal mistake is thinking that because you either made the road smoother or that you can go faster that you are being effective and productive...BUT...you just knowingly put an INSURMOUNTABLE rock is your path that you would NEVER get around for 4 or 5 years...so yes...would i take the risk of losing the tpe, zeller, thorton and a late 1st...heck yeah...i would roll the dice that no one else steps up to the plate...it's not even close...zeller, thorton and a late first are not such a coup that i would willingly and knowingly block my own path for 4 or 5 years...no brainer...

THERE WAS ALREADY THAT ROCK!!! IT JUST MOVED FROM MIAMI TO CLEVELAND!!

You couldn't beat that team when you had Pierce, Garnett, Allen, with Rondo. You think Love was enough?!

AHHHHHHH

I can't take the nonsense. Is this how Tommy Heinsohn went insane?

agreed but TBH, there was no 'rock'.  SAS proved that.  if Miami was indeed a 'rock', SAS wouldn't have bothered trying this year after they lost a heartbreaking series last year.  I still see that series a SAS losing it rather than Miami winning it because SAS should have wrapped that one up before Ray's big shot should have even occurred.

The Miami 'rock' can really only claim to have really beaten one opponent in the finals.  their other title was courtesy of a choke by SAS.  not much of a 'rock' and I don't see a better one happening in Cleveland now.

[bhbf08]

so basically...the logic here is get something for nothing...i love it...are people really going to tell me that zeller, thorton and a late 1st is some kind of blockbuster for us...reality check please...the fatal mistake is thinking that because you either made the road smoother or that you can go faster that you are being effective and productive...BUT...you just knowingly put an INSURMOUNTABLE rock is your path that you would NEVER get around for 4 or 5 years...so yes...would i take the risk of losing the tpe, zeller, thorton and a late 1st...heck yeah...i would roll the dice that no one else steps up to the plate...it's not even close...zeller, thorton and a late first are not such a coup that i would willingly and knowingly block my own path for 4 or 5 years...no brainer...

No what Danny did was beyond that.  If Miami stays together we have a road block for 3-4 years, and in the meantime CLE Is assembling the Irving/Wiggins combo and building around them.  Wiggins becomes a superstar and now you have a NEW ROCK that is now in your way for an ADDITIONAL 3-5 years.  So now you are at 6-9 years of blockage.  Now, assuming Wiggins is traded for Love,  Danny just cut off 2-4 years of Blockage!!! Send Wiggins out west.  BOOM that just happened. 

[Sketch5]

so basically...the logic here is get something for nothing...i love it...are people really going to tell me that zeller, thorton and a late 1st is some kind of blockbuster for us...reality check please...the fatal mistake is thinking that because you either made the road smoother or that you can go faster that you are being effective and productive...BUT...you just knowingly put an INSURMOUNTABLE rock is your path that you would NEVER get around for 4 or 5 years...so yes...would i take the risk of losing the tpe, zeller, thorton and a late 1st...heck yeah...i would roll the dice that no one else steps up to the plate...it's not even close...zeller, thorton and a late first are not such a coup that i would willingly and knowingly block my own path for 4 or 5 years...no brainer...

I really don't think you get it, not one bit. SOME ONE would have done the deal. It's not a blockbuster, but its a very good deal. DA gave no assets to get the deal. They got more assets in the draft pick, expiring with Thorton and either a starting C or an other guy to use in a trade for a better player.

We don't know whats going on behind closed doors. Maybe Minni wants more than DA wants to give up. I know people on here don't want to give up the farm for Love, and maybe thats what Flip wants. Maybe Minni said that they rather let Love walk then send him to Boston.

But an other team would have jumped on that deal. And yeah we were the team that hurts our chances at Love, but what would not doing anything accomplished? Nothing. Don't give me that crap about standing against Cleveland and Lebron in getting an other superteam.
It would have happened no matter what.

DA just got something out of it knowing he was going to loose no matter what. You know what's pretty good to, screwing Miami.

[slamtheking]

i love the terms common sense and denying reality...what a bunch of fluff...that basically means you got nothing and are dealing in hypotheticals...

Pretty much the premise of this thread then right? You don't have any concrete "evidence" that there WEREN'T any other offers as well, but continue.

You logic is too logical for this illogical person.

Lakers just broke the cardinal rule too, since they traded with Houston....ALL THE RULES ARE BREAKING 

i agree with you...look at the lakers chances now...not only did you have sa, okc, port, clippers...you just added hou...hou is going to sigh bosh and parsons...so getting lin and a late first is worth putting one more team ahead of you...i don't buy it...why help your competiton get better..do you really think lin and a late first is such a coup...

just out of sheer mordid curiosity at this point, what in your mind constitutes an appropriate team to trade with? 

no team is going to trade with you if they're not gaining something from it.  whether that's improving their talent, improving their cap or adding to their assets, every team you trade with would in theory be improving.  using your line of reasoning from these posts, the C's should never trade with anyone unless they're absolutely getting the better end of the deal by far and no other team is going to do that (unless Isaiah Thomas gets hired as a GM again)

[fairweatherfan]

no team is going to trade with you if they're not gaining something from it.  whether that's improving their talent, improving their cap or adding to their assets, every team you trade with would in theory be improving.  using your line of reasoning from these posts, the C's should never trade with anyone unless they're absolutely getting the better end of the deal by far.

And not only do the Celtics have to win the deal by far, like we did here, they also can't be enabling a later deal that helps the other team either.  And you can't trade in your conference or division, except when you can, which doesn't count.  It's airtight!

[Cman]

What he said ^^^^^

[blink]

so once again...i hear about all these mythical teams like la and gs that were supposedly going to step up to plate...so now you're going to tell me...since it was de facto a done deal...we might as well beat them to the punch...i'll say it again...PROVE that there was another team READY to step up to plate...i just hear conjectures...PROVE it...

How about you PROVE there were no other teams that would have stepped up to the plate?

It's very likely that Danny knew the C's weren't getting Love by now, that Flip wouldn't trade for what DA was willing to give up, so he moved on. Sure, it was a risk to "help the Cavs", but so what?

If you remember 10 years ago, Danny "helped" the Pistons, but he got the C's some extra assets. Same thing here. Yeah, it could be that it's LeBron, Irving and Love for a few years, but again, so what? It's Cleveland after all, they'll find a way to squander their advantage...don't they always?

IAC, the wheel turns, Danny churns assets, and the C's will be back on top sooner than you think.

Exactly.  Why don't you PROVE to all of us that there weren't other options.  You are still going to have 90% of us disagreeing with you.

SO?  and your point is...

That you are a troll? lol...I dunno, you are just trying to change everyone's mind about this, and it isn't going to happen.  The whole premise of this thread is seriously flawed.  You getting upset it isn't going to change anyone's opinion.

[mmmmm]

If it wasn't the Celtics, it would have been someone else. It was a good move by Danny.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  If it wasn't the Celtics, it would have been a rival that picked up Zeller / #1 / expiring contract.

The only thing I regret is that we couldn't squeeze the #1 that Cleveland owns from Miami out of them.

This^

You know what is scary?

Right now, Cleveland has 4 #1 overall picks on their team, including 3 of the last 4.   

And right now, Miami looks like they may be crumbling into a suck, wreck of a team.

Suppose Miami sucks their way into the deep lottery and gets the #1 pick for Cleveland NEXT year?

THAT would truly, completely, suck.

EDIT:  Just checked and it is top-10 protected.  Whew!

Still, strong chance it's a good pick.

[sofutomygaha]

If it wasn't the Celtics, it would have been someone else. It was a good move by Danny.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  If it wasn't the Celtics, it would have been a rival that picked up Zeller / #1 / expiring contract.

The only thing I regret is that we couldn't squeeze the #1 that Cleveland owns from Miami out of them.

This^

You know what is scary?

Right now, Cleveland has 4 #1 overall picks on their team, including 3 of the last 4.   

And right now, Miami looks like they may be crumbling into a suck, wreck of a team.

Suppose Miami sucks their way into the deep lottery and gets the #1 pick for Cleveland NEXT year?

THAT would truly, completely, suck.

it's top 10 protected

[blink]

If it wasn't the Celtics, it would have been someone else. It was a good move by Danny.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  If it wasn't the Celtics, it would have been a rival that picked up Zeller / #1 / expiring contract.

The only thing I regret is that we couldn't squeeze the #1 that Cleveland owns from Miami out of them.

This^

You know what is scary?

Right now, Cleveland has 4 #1 overall picks on their team, including 3 of the last 4.   

And right now, Miami looks like they may be crumbling into a suck, wreck of a team.

Suppose Miami sucks their way into the deep lottery and gets the #1 pick for Cleveland NEXT year?

THAT would truly, completely, suck.

That is something interesting and at once horrible to think about.  Even them getting the 11th pick for trading Lebron after getting him back is crazy.

[mmmmm]

just because a team had a tpe means NOTHING...i'm talking about real offers...real negotiations...real talks...smoke...whatever you want to call it...there was NONE...maybe in private there were...we'll never know...

That's silly logic.   For all you know the absence of such buzz simply means they never had to ask those teams.  That doesn't mean they wouldn't have done the deal.

To use your own proof-of-a-negative logic:

PROVE to me that IF Cleveland had asked any one of Philly/LA/Utah/etc. for their help in pulling off this transaction that they would NOT have done so.  I want PROOF!

[manl_lui]

If it wasn't the Celtics, it would have been someone else. It was a good move by Danny.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  If it wasn't the Celtics, it would have been a rival that picked up Zeller / #1 / expiring contract.

The only thing I regret is that we couldn't squeeze the #1 that Cleveland owns from Miami out of them.

This^

You know what is scary?

Right now, Cleveland has 4 #1 overall picks on their team, including 3 of the last 4.   

And right now, Miami looks like they may be crumbling into a suck, wreck of a team.

Suppose Miami sucks their way into the deep lottery and gets the #1 pick for Cleveland NEXT year?

THAT would truly, completely, suck.

That is something interesting and at once horrible to think about.  Even them getting the 11th pick for trading Lebron after getting him back is crazy.

not sure, but didn't someone say that the pick for the next two years are top 10 protected? Miami can flat out tank the next year and keep the pick

anyhow, aside from that, anyone think this was LeBron's master plan to help Cleveland and himself?

bolt, have Cleveland tank for 4 straight years, get 3 1st round picks, go to Miami win 2 championships and come back and bringing some people with him?

oooooo Lebron is so evil