Author Topic: Gerald Wallace: LeBron ‘Doesn't have the attitude or the fight’ of Jordan & Kobe  (Read 9996 times)

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Offline kozlodoev

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He was an efficient scorer, except he had an abysmal free-throw shooting year. Also, his turnover rate was completely horrible.
His turnover rate was what it has always been. The only reason you've noticed it was because Wallace was not a scorer of any sort last season, efficient or otherwise. He took 4 shots a game, couldn't score from outside of 3 feet, and couldn't hit a free throw. He wasn't simply bad, he was completely and utterly abysmal.

I have no problem with him if he could sit on the bench and keep his trap shut (because I certainly don't want to see him in a game), but the latter has been an issue.

Sorry, but that's completely false. His turnover rate was extremely higher this year than in seasons past. It's not even close, particularly when you consider his low usage rate.

In addition, he had the best shooting percentage from the corner 3 on the team, at 58%.  Whether or not he took enough of them, or passed up good opportunities, is open to debate, but it's a complete and utter inaccuracy to say he couldn't score from outside 3 feet.  He was elite from the corner.
Yeah, on a sample of ~10 makes. I wouldn't read too much into it.
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Offline Clench123

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Gerald sure would know about domination and taking over a team.  He has taken over the Celtics cap space since he got here without contributing anything.  One advice Gerald, if you don't have quarter of the talent Lebron has, keep your opinion to yourself. 

So on that note, Gerald, shut your no good, constant whinning, Brad Stevens hating, unfitting nickname bearing, cap space eating, no talent having, team hostage holding, rebuilding blocking behind up. 
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 12:06:14 PM by Clench123 »

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Offline Chris22

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I will be so glad when Gerald Wallace is gone.
He refused to shoot and generally acted like a spoiled child while collect millions for doing nothing.
He should be ashamed.

Gerald Wallace, LeBron
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2014, 11:59:08 AM »

Offline perks-a-beast

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I couldn't disagree more about the fight part. If LeBron didn't have the fight of a champion, Miami loses game 6 last year, no question. Sure, it was Ray Allen who hit the big shot, but LeBron never stopped fighting, even when a comeback seemed inconceivable and the Heat "fans" were heading for the exits.

I don't know what he means by the "attitude" part but I'd say it's a good thing LeBron doesn't have the attitude of Kobe. It's Kobe's attitude that made players like Dwight Howard, Shaquile O'Neal, Smush Parker, Antawn Jamison- the list goes on- hate playing with him. On the contrary, I don't think there is a player in the league who wouldn't want to play with LeBron- even Pierce.

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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He was an efficient scorer, except he had an abysmal free-throw shooting year. Also, his turnover rate was completely horrible.
His turnover rate was what it has always been. The only reason you've noticed it was because Wallace was not a scorer of any sort last season, efficient or otherwise. He took 4 shots a game, couldn't score from outside of 3 feet, and couldn't hit a free throw. He wasn't simply bad, he was completely and utterly abysmal.

I have no problem with him if he could sit on the bench and keep his trap shut (because I certainly don't want to see him in a game), but the latter has been an issue.

Sorry, but that's completely false. His turnover rate was extremely higher this year than in seasons past. It's not even close, particularly when you consider his low usage rate.
His career assist-to-turnover ratio is 1.2; his assist-to-turnover last season was 1.8 -- that's what I'm looking at. The high TO per 100 possessions is an artifact of the fact that he wouldn't shoot.


Since 03-04 season (jumped from 12 minutes a game to 30) his turnover average has been 2.3, 1.8, 2.2, 2.9, 2.1, 2.3 ,2.3, 2.1 ,1.7, 2.0, 1.6, 1.7

Those years with 2.0+ he was averaging 15-20 playing 35-40 minutes. With the C's he averaged 24 last year. Technically it could go both ways weather its bad or not.  I think just about anyone playin 20+ minutes going to average 1.5 turnovers or more from the forward position. But I can also see as much as he plays it couldl and maybe should be possibly lower.

Offline Eja117

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Our friend Gerald Wallace is back, glad to hear from him early in free-agency. Last year we didn't hear from him until November or such.

In any case, some highlights:

“Jordan never had an off night,” Wallace told myfoxal.com. “He found many ways to contribute to the team, and I’d say Kobe [Bryant] is pretty much the same. You can put Lebron in that category. I think what separates LeBron from Kobe and Michael Jordan right now is that he doesn’t have the attitude or the fight that those guys had. For me, he’s not willing to take over a game, demand a game or put the game all on his shoulders. I would like to see him get to that one day, but right now I don’t think he has that, and that’s what Michael Jordan and even Kobe has.”

.........


“It wasn’t as bad as I thought it was for me,” Wallace said of Boston. “Being where I’m at in my career, I think once I got there I was kind of against starting over and rebuilding a team, but being there, being a veteran, being able to help some of the young guys mature and develop themselves in the league and just given the experience that I was able to give to those guys turned out to be pretty much a good year for me. So, I was excited about it. I think I had a great time this year. I’m looking forward to going back and improving. We had [Rajon] Rondo for midway of the season, so I’m looking forward to being with him for a full season. So, it’ll be interesting this upcoming year.”


http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2014/07/10/gerald-wallace-lebron-james-doesnt-have-the-attitude-or-the-fight-of-michael-jordan-kobe-bryant/
Gerald Wallace still hasn't earned the right to talk like this or learned to shut up.

Hey Gerald. Shut up.

Jeff Green's useless little brother for the time being.

Re: Gerald Wallace, LeBron
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2014, 12:06:55 PM »

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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I couldn't disagree more about the fight part. If LeBron didn't have the fight of a champion, Miami loses game 6 last year, no question. Sure, it was Ray Allen who hit the big shot, but LeBron never stopped fighting, even when a comeback seemed inconceivable and the Heat "fans" were heading for the exits.

I don't know what he means by the "attitude" part but I'd say it's a good thing LeBron doesn't have the attitude of Kobe. It's Kobe's attitude that made players like Dwight Howard, Shaquile O'Neal, Smush Parker, Antawn Jamison- the list goes on- hate playing with him. On the contrary, I don't think there is a player in the league who wouldn't want to play with LeBron- even Pierce.

Totally agree. What if Lebron had the mindset, Im not going to pass as much im going straight to the whole.. It would be 40 a night. Plus a lot of banging on his body. Once he left the cavs I think he could care less about the comparisons. He got rings regardless. Everyone loves playing with Lebron because he PASSES you the ball and finds you open. People hate him because he left Cleveland and the whole "can't do it yourself thing"" Next will be he needed Cleveland to build an Army to be faithful to the Cavs

Offline pearljammer10

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I think G-Dub talks way too much but he is on to something here.

Jordan & Kobe along with Bird & a few others have/had this incredible fight about them & attitude.  It's a bit tough to try & convey it in words but essentially losing killed them.  Those guys had this ridiculous competitive gene and you'd often see them take it out on both teammates and opponents.  I don't quite see that from Lebron.  Certainly more passive in that area although he is certainly still a leader out there.  He just seems to lead in a different way than guys like Jordan & Kobe.   

From a basketball skillpoint, Lebron might be better than all of them when all is said & done but, in terms of drive & desire, he's not on the same page.  I don't think you'll ever hear people talking about the "drive & desire" of Lebron James in the first sentence of an epitaph about him.

EDIT:  Also, I'm not what you'd consider a Lebron basher.  I think a lot of the criticism and hatred of him on here is unwarranted.  He's already one of the all-time greats.

There is no way in h-e double hockey sticks that I'll ever be able to say Lebron has more "basketball skills" than Jordan, Kobe, or Bird. I just think that is absurd. James uses his brute size and force to do a lot of things. Putting his head down and steamrolling guys is not a "basketball skill" and it certainly never will come close to anything Jordan Kobe or Bird could do from a basketball stand point.

Will he be an all time great? Yes there's no way to deny it even being a Lebron hater. But his legacy is more Shaq like dominance compared to basketball skill beauty.

Offline saltlover

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He was an efficient scorer, except he had an abysmal free-throw shooting year. Also, his turnover rate was completely horrible.
His turnover rate was what it has always been. The only reason you've noticed it was because Wallace was not a scorer of any sort last season, efficient or otherwise. He took 4 shots a game, couldn't score from outside of 3 feet, and couldn't hit a free throw. He wasn't simply bad, he was completely and utterly abysmal.

I have no problem with him if he could sit on the bench and keep his trap shut (because I certainly don't want to see him in a game), but the latter has been an issue.

Sorry, but that's completely false. His turnover rate was extremely higher this year than in seasons past. It's not even close, particularly when you consider his low usage rate.

In addition, he had the best shooting percentage from the corner 3 on the team, at 58%.  Whether or not he took enough of them, or passed up good opportunities, is open to debate, but it's a complete and utter inaccuracy to say he couldn't score from outside 3 feet.  He was elite from the corner.
Yeah, on a sample of ~10 makes. I wouldn't read too much into it.

While that's not untrue (he was 11-19), he could have missed his next 9 attempts from the corner and still have shot it better from there than anyone else who's likely to be on the team next season.  Small sample size doesn't completely explain it.

Offline mgent

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Wallace is definitely wrong about the "taking over a game & putting the game all on his shoulders" thing.  Detroit in '07 & Boston in '12 were two of the most dominant individual player performances I've ever seen.
I highly doubt he meant LeBron has never taken over a game ever.  He just means that his attitude isn't like Kobe and Jordan in that regard.  No matter how bad Kobe is sucking, he's still screaming for the ball and throwing up 22 footers in the 4th quarter.  He's still going to take absolutely every buzzer beater that the Lakers get, even when he's double teamed 35 feet from the basket.

On the other hand LeBron's choking/hiding in the corner in certain games is well documented.   He's known to cry about Spo playing him too many minutes.  In fact, he himself has admitted, "Sometimes the coaches tell me to be selfish, but my game won’t let me be selfish.”  Who are we to argue with his own coaches that think there are games where he could have taken over more?  Obviously that doesn't mean every game, or even a lot of them, but the point is that it would never happen to Jordan or Kobe.
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Offline Granath

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I expect a very solid year from him. He seems energized.

Folks, we have a cockeyed optimist in our midst!

Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

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I think G-Dub talks way too much but he is on to something here.

Jordan & Kobe along with Bird & a few others have/had this incredible fight about them & attitude.  It's a bit tough to try & convey it in words but essentially losing killed them.  Those guys had this ridiculous competitive gene and you'd often see them take it out on both teammates and opponents.  I don't quite see that from Lebron.  Certainly more passive in that area although he is certainly still a leader out there.  He just seems to lead in a different way than guys like Jordan & Kobe.   

From a basketball skillpoint, Lebron might be better than all of them when all is said & done but, in terms of drive & desire, he's not on the same page.  I don't think you'll ever hear people talking about the "drive & desire" of Lebron James in the first sentence of an epitaph about him.

EDIT:  Also, I'm not what you'd consider a Lebron basher.  I think a lot of the criticism and hatred of him on here is unwarranted.  He's already one of the all-time greats.

There is no way in h-e double hockey sticks that I'll ever be able to say Lebron has more "basketball skills" than Jordan, Kobe, or Bird. I just think that is absurd. James uses his brute size and force to do a lot of things. Putting his head down and steamrolling guys is not a "basketball skill" and it certainly never will come close to anything Jordan Kobe or Bird could do from a basketball stand point.

Will he be an all time great? Yes there's no way to deny it even being a Lebron hater. But his legacy is more Shaq like dominance compared to basketball skill beauty.

"Absurd to say" is certainly some hyperbole.  Doesn't seem so far-fetched. He does a lot more than just put his head down & steamroll guys.  If you think that's the only way he plays basketball, you're missing out.  Also, if you had a physical advantage, why wouldn't you use it?

I also mentioned when all "is said & done".  I'm really interested to see the direction his game goes as he progresses along in his 30s and starts falling out of his prime.  Does he end up more of a 4?  Does he become more perimeter oriented like Kobe did?  I'm not sure what to expect from him.


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Re: Gerald Wallace: LeBron ‘Doesn't have the attitude or the fight’
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2014, 12:29:55 PM »

Offline Cman

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There is no way in h-e double hockey sticks that I'll ever be able to say Lebron has more "basketball skills" than Jordan, Kobe, or Bird. I just think that is absurd. James uses his brute size and force to do a lot of things. Putting his head down and steamrolling guys is not a "basketball skill" and it certainly never will come close to anything Jordan Kobe or Bird could do from a basketball stand point.

Will he be an all time great? Yes there's no way to deny it even being a Lebron hater. But his legacy is more Shaq like dominance compared to basketball skill beauty.

beautifully put.
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Offline D.o.s.

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I think G-Dub talks way too much but he is on to something here.

Jordan & Kobe along with Bird & a few others have/had this incredible fight about them & attitude.  It's a bit tough to try & convey it in words but essentially losing killed them.  Those guys had this ridiculous competitive gene and you'd often see them take it out on both teammates and opponents.  I don't quite see that from Lebron.  Certainly more passive in that area although he is certainly still a leader out there.  He just seems to lead in a different way than guys like Jordan & Kobe.   

From a basketball skillpoint, Lebron might be better than all of them when all is said & done but, in terms of drive & desire, he's not on the same page.  I don't think you'll ever hear people talking about the "drive & desire" of Lebron James in the first sentence of an epitaph about him.

EDIT:  Also, I'm not what you'd consider a Lebron basher.  I think a lot of the criticism and hatred of him on here is unwarranted.  He's already one of the all-time greats.

There is no way in h-e double hockey sticks that I'll ever be able to say Lebron has more "basketball skills" than Jordan, Kobe, or Bird. I just think that is absurd. James uses his brute size and force to do a lot of things. Putting his head down and steamrolling guys is not a "basketball skill" and it certainly never will come close to anything Jordan Kobe or Bird could do from a basketball stand point.

Will he be an all time great? Yes there's no way to deny it even being a Lebron hater. But his legacy is more Shaq like dominance compared to basketball skill beauty.

"Absurd to say" is certainly some hyperbole.  Doesn't seem so far-fetched. He does a lot more than just put his head down & steamroll guys.  If you think that's the only way he plays basketball, you're missing out.  Also, if you had a physical advantage, why wouldn't you use it?

I also mentioned when all "is said & done".  I'm really interested to see the direction his game goes as he progresses along in his 30s and starts falling out of his prime.  Does he end up more of a 4?  Does he become more perimeter oriented like Kobe did?  I'm not sure what to expect from him.

More of a four is my guess -- thought process going something like: he'll always be a better passer than a shooter, and being able to operate as the inside man will make him more valuable to teams as he ages.
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Online Donoghus

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I think G-Dub talks way too much but he is on to something here.

Jordan & Kobe along with Bird & a few others have/had this incredible fight about them & attitude.  It's a bit tough to try & convey it in words but essentially losing killed them.  Those guys had this ridiculous competitive gene and you'd often see them take it out on both teammates and opponents.  I don't quite see that from Lebron.  Certainly more passive in that area although he is certainly still a leader out there.  He just seems to lead in a different way than guys like Jordan & Kobe.   

From a basketball skillpoint, Lebron might be better than all of them when all is said & done but, in terms of drive & desire, he's not on the same page.  I don't think you'll ever hear people talking about the "drive & desire" of Lebron James in the first sentence of an epitaph about him.

EDIT:  Also, I'm not what you'd consider a Lebron basher.  I think a lot of the criticism and hatred of him on here is unwarranted.  He's already one of the all-time greats.

There is no way in h-e double hockey sticks that I'll ever be able to say Lebron has more "basketball skills" than Jordan, Kobe, or Bird. I just think that is absurd. James uses his brute size and force to do a lot of things. Putting his head down and steamrolling guys is not a "basketball skill" and it certainly never will come close to anything Jordan Kobe or Bird could do from a basketball stand point.

Will he be an all time great? Yes there's no way to deny it even being a Lebron hater. But his legacy is more Shaq like dominance compared to basketball skill beauty.

"Absurd to say" is certainly some hyperbole.  Doesn't seem so far-fetched. He does a lot more than just put his head down & steamroll guys.  If you think that's the only way he plays basketball, you're missing out.  Also, if you had a physical advantage, why wouldn't you use it?

I also mentioned when all "is said & done".  I'm really interested to see the direction his game goes as he progresses along in his 30s and starts falling out of his prime.  Does he end up more of a 4?  Does he become more perimeter oriented like Kobe did?  I'm not sure what to expect from him.

More of a four is my guess -- thought process going something like: he'll always be a better passer than a shooter, and being able to operate as the inside man will make him more valuable to teams as he ages.

Point-forward maybe?  Webber type?    I just can't imagine him as a back to the basket type too much.   More like a stretch-type.


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