Author Topic: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.  (Read 29215 times)

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Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2014, 11:55:18 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Look, let's set this straight. 

Yes, let's set things straight.

Here are the guys who played 50 games or more for Cleveland during LeBron's last year there.

Bron - 76 games
Shaq - 53 games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 64 games
JJ Hickson - 81 games
Anderson Varejao - 76 games
Delonte West - 60 games
Mo Williams - 68 games
Anthony Parker - 81 games
Jamario Moon - 61 games
Jawad Williams - 54 games
Daniel Gibson - 56 games

Here's the guys who played 50 games or more the year after LeBron left.

Daniel Gibson - 67 games
Joey Graham - 79 games
Manny Harris - 54 games
JJ Hickson - 80 games
Ryan Hollins - 70 games
Antwan Jamison - 56 games
Ramon Sessions - 81 games
Anthony Parker - 72 games

So, that team essentially lost Shaq, Varejao, Big Z and Delonte and replaced them with Ryan Hollins, Joey Graham, Manny Harris and Ramon Sessions.  Even if Bron had stayed, they were going to win a LOT fewer games.

LeBron is NOT like KG.  Cleveland consistently put competitive teams around LeBron and the main reason they didn't win a title that last year was LeBron quitting on them against Boston.

All the other excuses for LeBron are the real "hot garbage".

Mike

I Agree---I think the Cavs did Everything they could, to put talent around him----For some reason, there's this public perception---that they did Nothing---BS---He had plenty of talent--and just couldn't get by a Much Tougher team--in the KG era Celtics---THAT is why he Gave up--and Quit, to go play in Miami...People's memories are weak....Hell---if Shaq doesn't get hurt---The C's would have beaten him again---The Heat got ALL the Lucky Breaks, the past 4 years--and still only ended up with 2 Rings---Should have been ONE--!

I agree. The Cavs did put good talent around Lebron. They may have missed out on one or two moves for a player like Amare, but in retrospect maybe they were right, Amare fell apart. The major mistake they made though was keeping Mike Brown. If that Cavs team had a better coach they may has gotten by the celtics and won a banner or two.

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2014, 12:02:13 AM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Haha anyone notice the Lebron (CLE) jersey in the background?!? This is more fun than looking for clues on "Lost"!

(BTW some other tweeter pointed out the LBJ jersey...)
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Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2014, 12:03:04 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Look, let's set this straight. 

Yes, let's set things straight.

Here are the guys who played 50 games or more for Cleveland during LeBron's last year there.

Bron - 76 games
Shaq - 53 games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 64 games
JJ Hickson - 81 games
Anderson Varejao - 76 games
Delonte West - 60 games
Mo Williams - 68 games
Anthony Parker - 81 games
Jamario Moon - 61 games
Jawad Williams - 54 games
Daniel Gibson - 56 games

Here's the guys who played 50 games or more the year after LeBron left.

Daniel Gibson - 67 games
Joey Graham - 79 games
Manny Harris - 54 games
JJ Hickson - 80 games
Ryan Hollins - 70 games
Antwan Jamison - 56 games
Ramon Sessions - 81 games
Anthony Parker - 72 games

So, that team essentially lost Shaq, Varejao, Big Z and Delonte and replaced them with Ryan Hollins, Joey Graham, Manny Harris and Ramon Sessions.  Even if Bron had stayed, they were going to win a LOT fewer games.

LeBron is NOT like KG.  Cleveland consistently put competitive teams around LeBron and the main reason they didn't win a title that last year was LeBron quitting on them against Boston.

All the other excuses for LeBron are the real "hot garbage".

Mike

Shaq was a great player, but by the time he spent his one season in Cleveland, he wasn't all that special, averaging 12 points per game on his worst shooting percentage in over a decade.  Big Z was also on his last legs. Varejao was missed, but almost all of that team's drop off was due to LeBron leaving.  Cleveland should have done a better job at giving him some support, more than an ancient Shaq.

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2014, 12:07:04 AM »

Offline greg683x

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i dont blame the guy for wanting to make as much money as possible.  maybe he wants to own a team after he retires.  I just dont think money is #1 on his radar right now

I think it's a combination of money and legacy.  NBA salary-wise, he won't make as much money by switching teams, but he will make up the 'loss' with outside marketing ventures.  Legacy-wise, it will be a story of redemption and bringing a title to Cleveland, etc...blah, blah, blah.  I think the guy does care about winning, but as you said earlier, he looks for the easiest route possible.

You really think the easiest route is in Cleveland?  Between the dramatically underwhelming play of Waiters and Bennett, and the fact that Wiggins is very much a prospect, the only 'sure thing' on that team is Irving. 

The fastest way to winning IMHO would have been for him to sacrifice some pay to allow Miami to free enough space to sign some free agents.  If Miami, Bosh and Wade all signed for $12M a year then Miami should have significant cap space to sign free agents.  If Lebron was the first to jump in, then I imagine Wade and Bosh would probably follow suit.

But if reports are true Lebron refused to sacrifice pay to increase his chance at a title, and so it goes.  He already has two rings and probably feels like that's all he needs to land himself securely in the hall of fame and NBA glory, now he can run back to Cleveland and rack up individual stats (and pay cheques).

Sure, I can see the Irving/Wiggins/Lebron being an elite trio 3 or 4 years from now..but by then Lebron will be in his early 30's.  He'll still be a great player, but he will lose some of the explosive athleticism that he depends so much on.  I think he'll fall of worse than most superstars once he gets older, he's not the type of "fundamental" superstar that tends to age well.

in cleveland he can have his cake and eat it too (max deal and superior cast).  Irving/Lebron/Love would be elite right now, it's pretty obvious the Love domino will fall if Lebron signs in Cleveland, thats what my opinion was based off of.  In Miami, the star help theyd bring in would most likely be signing at a discounted rate as well. if Miami wasnt stuck with having to keep Wade, I honestly think Lebron would be staying in Miami.  Either way though, what you said about Irving/Wiggins/Lebron is true (being elite 4 years from now), but honestly in the East right now,  thats still a contending team.  It doesnt matter though, Wiggins is gone if Lebron signs.  Getting Love there as well is part of all this.

What other team in the East provides this for Lebron? theres Chicago, but if Rose isnt the same player or gets injured, Lebrons right back to having no legit cast around him.  Washington cant pay him.  Neither can Indiana.  Atlanta?  Probably not.
Greg

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2014, 12:20:06 AM »

Offline beklog

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Rumored has it LBJ will love to work again with Miller:


Haha anyone notice the Lebron (CLE) jersey in the background?!? This is more fun than looking for clues on "Lost"!

(BTW some other tweeter pointed out the LBJ jersey...)

Yeah read that too... but saw some article that says Miller is going to the Nuggets

"Mike Miller is close to agreement on a deal with the Denver Nuggets." - Chris Broussard/ESPN
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Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2014, 12:20:58 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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Lebron is in the perfect position. He can chose to go to the team that can give him the best supporting cast in Cleveland, while staying in the weak eastern conference, ditch a decrepit Wade, and pretend that those are not the reasons for his choice by playing the return to his hometown redemption card.

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #81 on: July 10, 2014, 12:24:46 AM »

Offline greg683x

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Lebron is in the perfect position. He can chose to go to the team that can give him the best supporting cast in Cleveland, while staying in the weak eastern conference, ditch a decrepit Wade, and pretend that those are not the reasons for his choice by playing the return to his hometown redemption card.

tp.  couldnt agree more.
Greg

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #82 on: July 10, 2014, 12:34:40 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Look, let's set this straight. 

Yes, let's set things straight.

Here are the guys who played 50 games or more for Cleveland during LeBron's last year there.

Bron - 76 games
Shaq - 53 games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 64 games
JJ Hickson - 81 games
Anderson Varejao - 76 games
Delonte West - 60 games
Mo Williams - 68 games
Anthony Parker - 81 games
Jamario Moon - 61 games
Jawad Williams - 54 games
Daniel Gibson - 56 games

Here's the guys who played 50 games or more the year after LeBron left.

Daniel Gibson - 67 games
Joey Graham - 79 games
Manny Harris - 54 games
JJ Hickson - 80 games
Ryan Hollins - 70 games
Antwan Jamison - 56 games
Ramon Sessions - 81 games
Anthony Parker - 72 games

So, that team essentially lost Shaq, Varejao, Big Z and Delonte and replaced them with Ryan Hollins, Joey Graham, Manny Harris and Ramon Sessions.  Even if Bron had stayed, they were going to win a LOT fewer games.

LeBron is NOT like KG.  Cleveland consistently put competitive teams around LeBron and the main reason they didn't win a title that last year was LeBron quitting on them against Boston.

All the other excuses for LeBron are the real "hot garbage".

Mike

Shaq was a great player, but by the time he spent his one season in Cleveland, he wasn't all that special, averaging 12 points per game on his worst shooting percentage in over a decade.  Big Z was also on his last legs. Varejao was missed, but almost all of that team's drop off was due to LeBron leaving.  Cleveland should have done a better job at giving him some support, more than an ancient Shaq.

Yeah, I never thought they gave LeBron a particularly noteworthy supporting cast. Shaq was past his prime, I think Z was having some foot/leg problems, there were no other All-Stars on that squad if I remember correctly, and no particularly good scorers. Sideshow Bob was a good hustle guy/rebounder, but that team was basically LeBron, an over-the-hill Shaq, and a bunch of slightly-above-average role players (Mo, Delonte, Hickson). And let's remember that on the team LeBron took to the Finals in '07, the second-best player was Larry Hughes. Larry Hughes, people.  ;)
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Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #83 on: July 10, 2014, 12:41:24 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Look, let's set this straight. 

Yes, let's set things straight.

Here are the guys who played 50 games or more for Cleveland during LeBron's last year there.

Bron - 76 games
Shaq - 53 games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 64 games
JJ Hickson - 81 games
Anderson Varejao - 76 games
Delonte West - 60 games
Mo Williams - 68 games
Anthony Parker - 81 games
Jamario Moon - 61 games
Jawad Williams - 54 games
Daniel Gibson - 56 games

Here's the guys who played 50 games or more the year after LeBron left.

Daniel Gibson - 67 games
Joey Graham - 79 games
Manny Harris - 54 games
JJ Hickson - 80 games
Ryan Hollins - 70 games
Antwan Jamison - 56 games
Ramon Sessions - 81 games
Anthony Parker - 72 games

So, that team essentially lost Shaq, Varejao, Big Z and Delonte and replaced them with Ryan Hollins, Joey Graham, Manny Harris and Ramon Sessions.  Even if Bron had stayed, they were going to win a LOT fewer games.

LeBron is NOT like KG.  Cleveland consistently put competitive teams around LeBron and the main reason they didn't win a title that last year was LeBron quitting on them against Boston.

All the other excuses for LeBron are the real "hot garbage".

Mike

Shaq was a great player, but by the time he spent his one season in Cleveland, he wasn't all that special, averaging 12 points per game on his worst shooting percentage in over a decade.  Big Z was also on his last legs. Varejao was missed, but almost all of that team's drop off was due to LeBron leaving.  Cleveland should have done a better job at giving him some support, more than an ancient Shaq.

The point is that it was actually a substantially different team the following year, making it grossly deceptive to say that losing LeBron was the reason they lost over 40 more games.

The point is also to remind folks that Cleveland worked to put better and better rosters around LeBron until his final season saw the best Cavs team of his time there.  I watched those playoffs and that team didn't lose because the rest of the team let LeBron down.

Mike

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #84 on: July 10, 2014, 12:57:21 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Yeah, I never thought they gave LeBron a particularly noteworthy supporting cast. Shaq was past his prime, I think Z was having some foot/leg problems, there were no other All-Stars on that squad if I remember correctly, and no particularly good scorers. Sideshow Bob was a good hustle guy/rebounder, but that team was basically LeBron, an over-the-hill Shaq, and a bunch of slightly-above-average role players (Mo, Delonte, Hickson). And let's remember that on the team LeBron took to the Finals in '07, the second-best player was Larry Hughes. Larry Hughes, people.  ;)

Shaq, Z and Varejao combined for 28 pts and nearly 20 rebounds a game.

LeBron's last Cleveland team ranked 6th in offense and 7th in defense.

His title winning Miami teams were 2nd in offense, 9th in defense and 8th in offense, 4th in defense.

And exactly how much better was Dirk's supporting cast when Dallas beat Miami for the title than what LeBron had his last year in Cleveland?  How many other all-stars were on that roster?

Mike

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2014, 12:58:18 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Yeah, I never thought they gave LeBron a particularly noteworthy supporting cast. Shaq was past his prime, I think Z was having some foot/leg problems, there were no other All-Stars on that squad if I remember correctly, and no particularly good scorers. Sideshow Bob was a good hustle guy/rebounder, but that team was basically LeBron, an over-the-hill Shaq, and a bunch of slightly-above-average role players (Mo, Delonte, Hickson). And let's remember that on the team LeBron took to the Finals in '07, the second-best player was Larry Hughes. Larry Hughes, people.  ;)

Shaq, Z and Varejao combined for 28 pts and nearly 20 rebounds a game.

LeBron's last Cleveland team ranked 6th in offense and 7th in defense.

His title winning Miami teams were 2nd in offense, 9th in defense and 8th in offense, 4th in defense.

And exactly how much better was Dirk's supporting cast when Dallas beat Miami for the title than what LeBron had his last year in Cleveland?  How many other all-stars were on that roster?

Mike

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2014, 01:10:58 AM »

Offline staticcc

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Yeah, I never thought they gave LeBron a particularly noteworthy supporting cast. Shaq was past his prime, I think Z was having some foot/leg problems, there were no other All-Stars on that squad if I remember correctly, and no particularly good scorers. Sideshow Bob was a good hustle guy/rebounder, but that team was basically LeBron, an over-the-hill Shaq, and a bunch of slightly-above-average role players (Mo, Delonte, Hickson). And let's remember that on the team LeBron took to the Finals in '07, the second-best player was Larry Hughes. Larry Hughes, people.  ;)

Shaq, Z and Varejao combined for 28 pts and nearly 20 rebounds a game.

LeBron's last Cleveland team ranked 6th in offense and 7th in defense.

His title winning Miami teams were 2nd in offense, 9th in defense and 8th in offense, 4th in defense.

And exactly how much better was Dirk's supporting cast when Dallas beat Miami for the title than what LeBron had his last year in Cleveland?  How many other all-stars were on that roster?

Mike
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Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2014, 01:40:32 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Yeah, I never thought they gave LeBron a particularly noteworthy supporting cast. Shaq was past his prime, I think Z was having some foot/leg problems, there were no other All-Stars on that squad if I remember correctly, and no particularly good scorers. Sideshow Bob was a good hustle guy/rebounder, but that team was basically LeBron, an over-the-hill Shaq, and a bunch of slightly-above-average role players (Mo, Delonte, Hickson). And let's remember that on the team LeBron took to the Finals in '07, the second-best player was Larry Hughes. Larry Hughes, people.  ;)

Shaq, Z and Varejao combined for 28 pts and nearly 20 rebounds a game.

LeBron's last Cleveland team ranked 6th in offense and 7th in defense.

His title winning Miami teams were 2nd in offense, 9th in defense and 8th in offense, 4th in defense.

And exactly how much better was Dirk's supporting cast when Dallas beat Miami for the title than what LeBron had his last year in Cleveland?  How many other all-stars were on that roster?

Mike

 
I wasn't referring to other teams, or saying that a one-All-Star team can't win the title, simply that none of LeBron's Cleveland supporting casts impressed me.
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Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2014, 02:06:20 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Look, let's set this straight. 

Yes, let's set things straight.

Here are the guys who played 50 games or more for Cleveland during LeBron's last year there.

Bron - 76 games
Shaq - 53 games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 64 games
JJ Hickson - 81 games
Anderson Varejao - 76 games
Delonte West - 60 games
Mo Williams - 68 games
Anthony Parker - 81 games
Jamario Moon - 61 games
Jawad Williams - 54 games
Daniel Gibson - 56 games

Here's the guys who played 50 games or more the year after LeBron left.

Daniel Gibson - 67 games
Joey Graham - 79 games
Manny Harris - 54 games
JJ Hickson - 80 games
Ryan Hollins - 70 games
Antwan Jamison - 56 games
Ramon Sessions - 81 games
Anthony Parker - 72 games

So, that team essentially lost Shaq, Varejao, Big Z and Delonte and replaced them with Ryan Hollins, Joey Graham, Manny Harris and Ramon Sessions.  Even if Bron had stayed, they were going to win a LOT fewer games.

LeBron is NOT like KG.  Cleveland consistently put competitive teams around LeBron and the main reason they didn't win a title that last year was LeBron quitting on them against Boston.

All the other excuses for LeBron are the real "hot garbage".

Mike

Shaq was a great player, but by the time he spent his one season in Cleveland, he wasn't all that special, averaging 12 points per game on his worst shooting percentage in over a decade.  Big Z was also on his last legs. Varejao was missed, but almost all of that team's drop off was due to LeBron leaving.  Cleveland should have done a better job at giving him some support, more than an ancient Shaq.

Yeah, I never thought they gave LeBron a particularly noteworthy supporting cast. Shaq was past his prime, I think Z was having some foot/leg problems, there were no other All-Stars on that squad if I remember correctly, and no particularly good scorers. Sideshow Bob was a good hustle guy/rebounder, but that team was basically LeBron, an over-the-hill Shaq, and a bunch of slightly-above-average role players (Mo, Delonte, Hickson). And let's remember that on the team LeBron took to the Finals in '07, the second-best player was Larry Hughes. Larry Hughes, people.  ;)
Bottom line... LeBron was the difference between 19 wins and 61 wins.  That team was awful.  Just awful.  We're exaggerating the impact of those scrubs, because King James was playing with them... kinda like glorifying the importance of someone like Steve Kerr or Derrick Fisher.   It was King James and a bunch of bums.   Can't blame him for leaving.. can't blame him for going back now that they have lucked into some talent.

You're bringin up SHaq?  Shaq was toast that year.

News Flash:  They won 66 games the year prior without Shaq.  Most minutes on that team:   LeBron, Mo Williams, Varejao, Delonte West, Daniel Gibson and old man Z

Role players.  That team would have won 20 games without LeBron...   Which the Cavs did 3 years in a row after LeBron left.  Btw, the year before they drafted LeBron, a prime Big Z played 81 games on a 17 win team... so lets not pretend like he was some difference maker. 

Like KG in Minny, Bron was surrounded by garbage.  Unlike KG in Minny, LeBron was still able to win 60+ games with that garbage and make the Finals once.    Like KG, LeBron instantly proved he could contend for a title once surrounded by players.    And when LeBron joins up with Kyrie and Love next year, he'll instantly transform that lotto squad into a powerhouse.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 02:18:15 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Sheridan: Lebron is returning to Cleveland.
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2014, 08:12:48 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Look, let's set this straight. 

Yes, let's set things straight.

Here are the guys who played 50 games or more for Cleveland during LeBron's last year there.

Bron - 76 games
Shaq - 53 games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 64 games
JJ Hickson - 81 games
Anderson Varejao - 76 games
Delonte West - 60 games
Mo Williams - 68 games
Anthony Parker - 81 games
Jamario Moon - 61 games
Jawad Williams - 54 games
Daniel Gibson - 56 games

Here's the guys who played 50 games or more the year after LeBron left.

Daniel Gibson - 67 games
Joey Graham - 79 games
Manny Harris - 54 games
JJ Hickson - 80 games
Ryan Hollins - 70 games
Antwan Jamison - 56 games
Ramon Sessions - 81 games
Anthony Parker - 72 games

So, that team essentially lost Shaq, Varejao, Big Z and Delonte and replaced them with Ryan Hollins, Joey Graham, Manny Harris and Ramon Sessions.  Even if Bron had stayed, they were going to win a LOT fewer games.

LeBron is NOT like KG.  Cleveland consistently put competitive teams around LeBron and the main reason they didn't win a title that last year was LeBron quitting on them against Boston.

All the other excuses for LeBron are the real "hot garbage".

Mike

I Agree---I think the Cavs did Everything they could, to put talent around him----For some reason, there's this public perception---that they did Nothing---BS---He had plenty of talent--and just couldn't get by a Much Tougher team--in the KG era Celtics---THAT is why he Gave up--and Quit, to go play in Miami...People's memories are weak....Hell---if Shaq doesn't get hurt---The C's would have beaten him again---The Heat got ALL the Lucky Breaks, the past 4 years--and still only ended up with 2 Rings---Should have been ONE--!

I agree. The Cavs did put good talent around Lebron. They may have missed out on one or two moves for a player like Amare, but in retrospect maybe they were right, Amare fell apart. The major mistake they made though was keeping Mike Brown. If that Cavs team had a better coach they may has gotten by the celtics and won a banner or two.
You guys thinking that is good talent is hilarious.  ONE player, ONE year, Lebron's entire time in Cleveland, outside of Lebron made an all star game.  Not a single player made any of the All NBA or All NBA Defensive teams.  Not a single one.  His first year in Miami all of those were eclipsed by Wade and Bosh.  In one year he had more talent than he had in his prior seven years combined. 

The Cavs were a trainwreck during Lebron's tenure there, starting with the Carlos Boozer fiasco all the way through his seven year run.  They wasted first round draft picks on guys like Luke Jackson.  They traded first round picks for players like Jiri Welsh.  Just disaster after disaster.  And they were such a disaster that all of Lebron's pleading and begging to Chris Bosh, could not convince Bosh to go there (the Cavs and Raps had a sign and trade worked out all it needed was Bosh's approval). 

The Cavs starting lineup from the team that made the NBA Finals was Lebron, Larry Hughes, Zydrunas Ilgauskus, Sasha Pavlovic, and Drew Gooden.  Anderson Varejao, Boobie Gibson, Donyell Marshall, and Eric Snow were the rest of the rotation.  That team without Lebron James wins 15 games if it is lucky and yet it was the best team in the Eastern Conference that year solely because of James. 
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