Author Topic: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller  (Read 6208 times)

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Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2014, 09:36:29 PM »

Offline NorthernLightning

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Zeller will be some variation of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0gBQ-ZnCSc

Hopefully a better variation.

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2014, 09:48:25 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Quote
Strengths

*runs the floor well
*good passer for a center
*great touch around the hoop with either hand (shot 65% from 0-3ft)
*nice mid-range game (shot 52% from 10-16ft)
*solid athlete

All works well with Brad Steven's offense.

I hope he is better than our last NC big, Eric Montross.
That's what I was thinking as well. He seems like a very good fir in Brad Stevens' system. Apparently, Stevens recruited hard after the other Zeller brothers as well. He could be a nice little hidden gem here.

So what are we doing here, then?  Assembling the Butler dream team in the NBA? ::)  You should never acquire through trades or draft players because they 'fit in someone's system,' imho.  There's no proof that Stevens' 'system' will even work in the pros.  He's only been a coach for one year!  I just always thought that this was a no-brainer - the coach decides upon a style of play based on the type of players on the team's roster, taking advantage of their respective skill-sets to allow both the players and the team to thrive.  Did I miss a memo somewhere?
That's dumb thing to say. No, clearly we aren't assembling a Butler dream team. There are no Butler players on this team. Ainge gave Stevens a 6 year deal to coach the Celtics. You don't think the coach is going to look for players that he feels will excel in his "system"/coaching philosophy? It makes sense. No? Obviously, superior talent wins in the NBA but the Celtics don't have any of that at the moment. I think if the Celtics had a James or Durant on the team it might be just a little different. But selecting players based on fit is important. Just ask the San Antonio Spurs.

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2014, 09:52:28 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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That's a really solid comp, Northernlighting. Here's a comparison of Zeller to Krstic's career #s

http://bkref.com/tiny/gzyH5

There's a lot of similarity there.

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2014, 09:56:25 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I wonder how Zeller will do as compared to Asik over the next few years.

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2014, 09:59:36 PM »

Offline spelz

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1.)  Granted its a different sport but the Patriots have been going after players that fit their system for years, with great success
Basketball is more about who's got the biggest stars, and less about who's got players that "fit his system". I wouldn't use football templates in the NBA.

Did you miss the NBA Finals?

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Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2014, 10:10:57 PM »

Offline craigmaque

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IMO, you make this deal regardless of who is coaching or what system you're trying to implement. You get a decent big off the bench, an expiring to dangle at the deadline, and, most importantly, you're 3rd 1st round pick in 2016. At the expense of a TPE a lot of us thought was going to simply expire. Not the big move we're all waiting for, but a good trade nonetheless.
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Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2014, 10:14:03 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Man I miss Krstic too. Any idea if we can bring him back?


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Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2014, 10:24:45 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
That's a really solid comp, Northernlighting. Here's a comparison of Zeller to Krstic's career #s

Zeller is more athletic and can run the floor better than Krstic.  I think Krstic has the better jumper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TideUs0Ko9Q

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2014, 10:28:04 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Quote
Strengths

*runs the floor well
*good passer for a center
*great touch around the hoop with either hand (shot 65% from 0-3ft)
*nice mid-range game (shot 52% from 10-16ft)
*solid athlete

All works well with Brad Steven's offense.

I hope he is better than our last NC big, Eric Montross.
That's what I was thinking as well. He seems like a very good fir in Brad Stevens' system. Apparently, Stevens recruited hard after the other Zeller brothers as well. He could be a nice little hidden gem here.

So what are we doing here, then?  Assembling the Butler dream team in the NBA? ::)  You should never acquire through trades or draft players because they 'fit in someone's system,' imho.  There's no proof that Stevens' 'system' will even work in the pros.  He's only been a coach for one year!  I just always thought that this was a no-brainer - the coach decides upon a style of play based on the type of players on the team's roster, taking advantage of their respective skill-sets to allow both the players and the team to thrive.  Did I miss a memo somewhere?

1.)  Granted its a different sport but the Patriots have been going after players that fit their system for years, with great success
2.)  Im sure the target of this trade was the first round pick and the expiring contracts, Danny probably had a few choices of a throw in and chose Zeller because they were all equal and Zeller fits Brads Stevens
3.)  I agree with your thoughts for the most part, but if everything is equal go with the player that fits the coaches system best

You just made my point, in a way.  Basketball is nothing like football when it comes to free agency or the draft.  Even though I don't watch football, I haven't been able to avoid all of the talk surrounding the Patriots over the years, unfortunately, and here is why they're successful when it comes to finding players that fit into their 'system' - football is more of a system sport, and the Patriots have had their foundation for success in place for close to 15 years now.  They know what they need to succeed, but this is why the two sports are drastically different - the Patriots frequently let players like Asante Samuel go, despite of their talent and fit with the team, because the pool of players available in the draft each year is so much larger than the NBA's, thereby making it much easier for teams to replace guys. 

In basketball, however, if you've got a guy like Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett, you can't just let them walk.  Those guys are future hall of famers, and we will never see other players like them again, so you hold on to them for as long as possible imho.  Even in the case of finding great bench guys it can be extremely difficult, because some players are almost impossible to replace.  James Posey is a prime example of this.  He may not have been a household name, but his clutch play, locker room presence, experience in big games, and defense, especially, was impossible for us to replace, as we found out in later years. 

It is easier to go out and find guys that address a certain area of need for your team, especially for a club like the Spurs, because they already have their foundation in place, both on the sidelines and the court, not to mention the front office. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, once you have the players you need, you hold onto them for as long as you can.  Yes, you may have to overpay here and there, but that's what it takes sometimes.  It's very rare that you can find adequate replacements for HOF players anywhere in the draft, but it is possible if you know what you're doing.  Look at Chandler Parsons and Lance Stephenson, for example.  Or if you want to go back a little further and into the category of undrafted free agents, what about Ben Wallace and Wesley Matthews?  Once you have your core in place it's easier to find guys who can fill in for your stars off of the bench, but even then, there's no guarantee, and we're nowhere near that point right now. 

I'm also trying to caution against reassembling a college coach's dream team because of what happened with Pitino.  Sure, Antoine and Mercer, along with his trapping defense etc, won Pitino a title at Kentucky, but that doesn't mean that that same group of players and style of play will yield the same results in the pros.  That's all I'm saying.  Just get as much talent as possible, develop the players, and then if you end up a few really talented guys that all compliment each other, great, but that's pretty rare.  At that point, you can discuss how these guys fit together and whether or not it's in everyone's best interest to possibly move one of those guys for a player from another club who would play much better for you.

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2014, 10:35:01 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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You know your team has had horrible center play for almost a decade when you have fond memories of and want to bring back Nenad Kristic.  ;D

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2014, 10:37:27 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Quote
Strengths

*runs the floor well
*good passer for a center
*great touch around the hoop with either hand (shot 65% from 0-3ft)
*nice mid-range game (shot 52% from 10-16ft)
*solid athlete

All works well with Brad Steven's offense.

I hope he is better than our last NC big, Eric Montross.
That's what I was thinking as well. He seems like a very good fir in Brad Stevens' system. Apparently, Stevens recruited hard after the other Zeller brothers as well. He could be a nice little hidden gem here.

So what are we doing here, then?  Assembling the Butler dream team in the NBA? ::)  You should never acquire through trades or draft players because they 'fit in someone's system,' imho.  There's no proof that Stevens' 'system' will even work in the pros.  He's only been a coach for one year!  I just always thought that this was a no-brainer - the coach decides upon a style of play based on the type of players on the team's roster, taking advantage of their respective skill-sets to allow both the players and the team to thrive.  Did I miss a memo somewhere?
That's dumb thing to say. No, clearly we aren't assembling a Butler dream team. There are no Butler players on this team. Ainge gave Stevens a 6 year deal to coach the Celtics. You don't think the coach is going to look for players that he feels will excel in his "system"/coaching philosophy? It makes sense. No? Obviously, superior talent wins in the NBA but the Celtics don't have any of that at the moment. I think if the Celtics had a James or Durant on the team it might be just a little different. But selecting players based on fit is important. Just ask the San Antonio Spurs.

Oh, I agree that fit is important, but not at the expense of talent, imo.  I liked Stevens earlier in the season, especially his use of the trap, which no one seems to utilize anymore, but it's not like his 'system' has proven to be a winning one.  I liked part of the offense at times when they would actually exploit a mismatch (gasp.  I couldn't believe what I was witnessing), but for the most part, his offense was just pick and roll and a ton of three pointers, and it was horrible to watch, quite honestly.  Your big guys should be inside.  Every time they take a three pointer it bales out the defense, imho.

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2014, 10:52:47 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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1.)  Granted its a different sport but the Patriots have been going after players that fit their system for years, with great success
Basketball is more about who's got the biggest stars, and less about who's got players that "fit his system". I wouldn't use football templates in the NBA.

Did you miss the NBA Finals?
No. Did you miss Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili?
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2014, 10:56:25 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Quote
Strengths

*runs the floor well
*good passer for a center
*great touch around the hoop with either hand (shot 65% from 0-3ft)
*nice mid-range game (shot 52% from 10-16ft)
*solid athlete

All works well with Brad Steven's offense.

I hope he is better than our last NC big, Eric Montross.
That's what I was thinking as well. He seems like a very good fir in Brad Stevens' system. Apparently, Stevens recruited hard after the other Zeller brothers as well. He could be a nice little hidden gem here.

So what are we doing here, then?  Assembling the Butler dream team in the NBA? ::)  You should never acquire through trades or draft players because they 'fit in someone's system,' imho.  There's no proof that Stevens' 'system' will even work in the pros.  He's only been a coach for one year!  I just always thought that this was a no-brainer - the coach decides upon a style of play based on the type of players on the team's roster, taking advantage of their respective skill-sets to allow both the players and the team to thrive.  Did I miss a memo somewhere?
That's dumb thing to say. No, clearly we aren't assembling a Butler dream team. There are no Butler players on this team. Ainge gave Stevens a 6 year deal to coach the Celtics. You don't think the coach is going to look for players that he feels will excel in his "system"/coaching philosophy? It makes sense. No? Obviously, superior talent wins in the NBA but the Celtics don't have any of that at the moment. I think if the Celtics had a James or Durant on the team it might be just a little different. But selecting players based on fit is important. Just ask the San Antonio Spurs.

Oh, I agree that fit is important, but not at the expense of talent, imo.  I liked Stevens earlier in the season, especially his use of the trap, which no one seems to utilize anymore, but it's not like his 'system' has proven to be a winning one.  I liked part of the offense at times when they would actually exploit a mismatch (gasp.  I couldn't believe what I was witnessing), but for the most part, his offense was just pick and roll and a ton of three pointers, and it was horrible to watch, quite honestly.  Your big guys should be inside.  Every time they take a three pointer it bales out the defense, imho.

so success in college doesnt prove enough for you, because his style of coaching has been proven to be successful.  Did you not like the Stevens hire then??

I just think if you bring a coach in, you DO think his brand of basketball can be successful, and you help build the team with players that fit that brand of basketball. 

The Philadelphia Eagles situation with Chip Kelley is very similar to Stevens.  Youre bringing in a guy whos only had success at the college level, but when you bring him in, you bring him in to play HIS type of game, with HIS type of players.  He sacrificed talent for the good of his system.
Greg

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2014, 11:03:16 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Here is Zeller's career high against the Celtics....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccqk87cBs7M

Re: Taking a Closer Look: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2014, 11:15:20 PM »

Offline timpiker

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"System"?  You talking about "system"?  You mean the one that says to pass the ball and run the floor hard?  Oh, that system will never work in the NBA.