Author Topic: Danny turned nothing into something  (Read 6761 times)

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Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2014, 06:18:21 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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This is a good trade but one thing that is not obvious is the $10M TPE exemption came to us largely because we took on Gerald Wallace for 3 years at $10.1M.  There were many parts to the BKN deal so you can't match up any two parts exactly but these two are pretty close to matching up.  The Celtics paid dearly for that trade exemption.  So I guess it comes down to this:

Zeller
Cle Pick

for taking on the contracts of:

Wallace (3 years at $10.1 per)
Thornton (1 year at $8.5)

That is about $40M.

I am not saying this is a bad trade, I would do it all over again starting with the KG/PP trade but no one made something out of nothing.  Rather, the Celtics agreed to pay $40M to make something out of nothing.


At least one of the BKN picks was for Wallace. So 2 picks and Zeller to take on Wallace. Thorton just turned 27 but we can flip or keep him and let him expire so I don't really see the downside there.

No one can say for sure that we got one pick for Wallace but I don't think that is an unreasonable assumption or theory.  I don't buy the Thornton argument though.  He is not a player we need or want.  We took him to make the deal work.  We may get something for him along the way but I don't think they will get much.

So in return for being willing to pay $40M to two players we do not need or want, we got:

BKN Pick in Future
Protected and probably not that high of a pick from Cle
and Zeller.

I am not saying this is a bad trade, I am just trying to offer some perspective that it is not all roses as it first seems.  You can argue there is no downside to taking on either Wallace or Thornton but there is a cost.

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2014, 06:19:41 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Add Thornton, Zeller and the Cavs pick to the list of assets we got by trading Pierce and KG.  Fantastic return.  Four 1st rounders.  Probably all will be late 1sts, but that's a nice return for a couple elderly players

James young
2016 Brooklyn pick
2017 option to swap picks
2018 Brooklyn pick
Tyler Zeller
2016 Top 10 protected Cavs pick

For KG and Pierce.

This is before the use of Bogans non-guaranteed deal in the next trade (hopefully). That could & should yield one more asset.

This actually begs the question... with the incoming salary of Thornton, can the Cs still manage to take on salary in exchange for Bogans?

Example: a deal of STAT, Hardaway Jr. and Early for G. Wallace, J. Anthony and Bogans would make some sense for both teams (assuming the Knicks want in on the LeBron chase), but I don't think it will work under the tax line for the Cs anymore.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2014, 06:31:22 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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This is a good trade but one thing that is not obvious is the $10M TPE exemption came to us largely because we took on Gerald Wallace for 3 years at $10.1M.  There were many parts to the BKN deal so you can't match up any two parts exactly but these two are pretty close to matching up.  The Celtics paid dearly for that trade exemption.  So I guess it comes down to this:

Zeller
Cle Pick

for taking on the contracts of:

Wallace (3 years at $10.1 per)
Thornton (1 year at $8.5)

That is about $40M.

I am not saying this is a bad trade, I would do it all over again starting with the KG/PP trade but no one made something out of nothing.  Rather, the Celtics agreed to pay $40M to make something out of nothing.

In breaking down the Nets trade, I'd say that taking on Wallace was the price for including Jason Terry and getting another unprotected first out of the deal, while also making it possible to get a bigger trade exception.   So, it's more like $25 million for Zeller, the Cleveland pick, and an unprotected 2018 pick from Brooklyn.
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Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2014, 06:51:07 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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This is a good trade but one thing that is not obvious is the $10M TPE exemption came to us largely because we took on Gerald Wallace for 3 years at $10.1M.  There were many parts to the BKN deal so you can't match up any two parts exactly but these two are pretty close to matching up.  The Celtics paid dearly for that trade exemption.  So I guess it comes down to this:

Zeller
Cle Pick

for taking on the contracts of:

Wallace (3 years at $10.1 per)
Thornton (1 year at $8.5)

That is about $40M.

I am not saying this is a bad trade, I would do it all over again starting with the KG/PP trade but no one made something out of nothing.  Rather, the Celtics agreed to pay $40M to make something out of nothing.


At least one of the BKN picks was for Wallace. So 2 picks and Zeller to take on Wallace. Thorton just turned 27 but we can flip or keep him and let him expire so I don't really see the downside there.

No one can say for sure that we got one pick for Wallace but I don't think that is an unreasonable assumption or theory.  I don't buy the Thornton argument though.  He is not a player we need or want.  We took him to make the deal work.  We may get something for him along the way but I don't think they will get much.

So in return for being willing to pay $40M to two players we do not need or want, we got:

BKN Pick in Future
Protected and probably not that high of a pick from Cle
and Zeller.

I am not saying this is a bad trade, I am just trying to offer some perspective that it is not all roses as it first seems.  You can argue there is no downside to taking on either Wallace or Thornton but there is a cost.

I don't get how it's 40m... isn't it still only 30m since you are saying we got the TPE for taking Wallace... we used the same TPE for Zeller/Thorton. It wouldn't be both.

nvm I see it. 
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2014, 06:57:06 PM »

Offline BballTim

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This is a good trade but one thing that is not obvious is the $10M TPE exemption came to us largely because we took on Gerald Wallace for 3 years at $10.1M.  There were many parts to the BKN deal so you can't match up any two parts exactly but these two are pretty close to matching up.  The Celtics paid dearly for that trade exemption.  So I guess it comes down to this:

Zeller
Cle Pick

for taking on the contracts of:

Wallace (3 years at $10.1 per)
Thornton (1 year at $8.5)

That is about $40M.

I am not saying this is a bad trade, I would do it all over again starting with the KG/PP trade but no one made something out of nothing.  Rather, the Celtics agreed to pay $40M to make something out of nothing.

  I don't think it really works like that. I think that we traded out more salary than we took back. and that's why there was a trade exception.

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2014, 07:05:38 PM »

Offline flybono

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Another brilliant move by Ainge.

A decent young center, a first round pick, and cap space for next summer.

All for practically nothing.


Team won 25 games last season and with free agency looming here thursday the Celts are cap strapped. Can anyone explain how this happened?

If Celts go into next season as constructed, how can we say Ainge has done a great job when were sitting at 79 million against the Cap?
My ? would be, Did Ainge foresee the future with the Team while the big 3 were still here?

Can anyone explain this? 
How could Ainge bring in a Stephensen if were maxed out?

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2014, 07:13:28 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Another brilliant move by Ainge.

A decent young center, a first round pick, and cap space for next summer.

All for practically nothing.


Team won 25 games last season and with free agency looming here thursday the Celts are cap strapped. Can anyone explain how this happened?

If Celts go into next season as constructed, how can we say Ainge has done a great job when were sitting at 79 million against the Cap?
My ? would be, Did Ainge foresee the future with the Team while the big 3 were still here?

Can anyone explain this? 
How could Ainge bring in a Stephensen if were maxed out?

It's easily explainable.  The way our roster is constructed, we have a lot of leverage next summer to make big moves.  We have minimal leverage this summer to make big moves.  Ainge is sniffing out some big moves, but since we have limited leverage this year, he will probably stand pat instead of handcuffing himself for the sake of one season. 

Sullinger + picks isn't a bad package, but there is no reason to overpay for one super star if it's going to kneecap our chances to have a legit title team.  Signings like Hayward and Parsons for $15m + a year are outrageous and while I would like both of those players on our team in a vacuum, their deals will ultimately hurt the clubs they're on.

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2014, 07:19:47 PM »

Offline Nef-Oracle

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Good move as usual. Now we just move Rondo, Bass, Anthony for picks, waive CJ, Babb, & Bogans, keep Mike Moser & bring anyone for a vet min contract to lead the team (hopefully Jordan Crawford).

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2014, 07:23:28 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Another brilliant move by Ainge.

A decent young center, a first round pick, and cap space for next summer.

All for practically nothing.


Team won 25 games last season and with free agency looming here thursday the Celts are cap strapped. Can anyone explain how this happened?

If Celts go into next season as constructed, how can we say Ainge has done a great job when were sitting at 79 million against the Cap?
My ? would be, Did Ainge foresee the future with the Team while the big 3 were still here?

Can anyone explain this? 
How could Ainge bring in a Stephensen if were maxed out?

The Celtics only had 10 million under the cap to work with. They spent 8 per year on Bradley.

It turns out that the guys better then Bradley are getting paid way more than 10 per year. Hayward, Parsons - gone. Bledsoe is gonna cost a fortune as well.

And i dont want Lance for over 10 million per year. He is a knucklehead and not much of a team player. Too much hero ball for my taste.

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2014, 07:52:40 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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This trade is all fine and dandy

But fact remains

Lakers and Celtics will be fighting for a top five draft pick next year.

Tank O Rama .....part II

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2014, 08:12:46 PM »

Offline ManUp

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Another pick to chase after love with.

Danny did a great job using the expiring exception and getting a 1st from Cleveland a likely lotto team was really impressive. IMO, Zeller is a rotational bench player at the very least. We've got a lot of assets that will eventually yield something good.

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2014, 08:14:23 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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This is a good trade but one thing that is not obvious is the $10M TPE exemption came to us largely because we took on Gerald Wallace for 3 years at $10.1M.  There were many parts to the BKN deal so you can't match up any two parts exactly but these two are pretty close to matching up.  The Celtics paid dearly for that trade exemption.  So I guess it comes down to this:

Zeller
Cle Pick

for taking on the contracts of:

Wallace (3 years at $10.1 per)
Thornton (1 year at $8.5)

That is about $40M.

I am not saying this is a bad trade, I would do it all over again starting with the KG/PP trade but no one made something out of nothing.  Rather, the Celtics agreed to pay $40M to make something out of nothing.

  I don't think it really works like that. I think that we traded out more salary than we took back. and that's why there was a trade exception.

I think you are right.  My bad.

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2014, 08:53:30 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Wyc deserves some credit for this deal as well.  Many owners would have let the trade exception expire and saved the money.  Wyc is willing to pay Thornton his $8m+ salary to get Zeller and a future pick and the payroll is close to $80m for a rebuilding team.  It's great to not have a cheap owner.

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2014, 09:14:02 PM »

Offline MaxAMillion

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Wyc deserves some credit for this deal as well.  Many owners would have let the trade exception expire and saved the money.  Wyc is willing to pay Thornton his $8m+ salary to get Zeller and a future pick and the payroll is close to $80m for a rebuilding team.  It's great to not have a cheap owner.

The Celtics are the NBA's 4th richest team. They should be willing to spend $8 million. There overall payroll will be down again next year. Not like ownership is struggling to break even.

Re: Danny turned nothing into something
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2014, 09:23:10 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Wyc deserves some credit for this deal as well.  Many owners would have let the trade exception expire and saved the money.  Wyc is willing to pay Thornton his $8m+ salary to get Zeller and a future pick and the payroll is close to $80m for a rebuilding team.  It's great to not have a cheap owner.

It's a lot harder for owners to agree to do this if it guarantees the team will play luxury tax.
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