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Who Would You Take?

Sign Marcin Gortat
Sign Greg Monroe
Sign Pau Gasol
Sign Jordan Hill
Sign Emeka Okafor
Sign Andrew Bynum
Joakim Noah trade
Larry Sanders trade
Derrick Favors trade
Enes Kanter trade
Timofey Mozgov trade
Kosta Koufos trade
Sign Cole Aldrich
Sign Ekpe Udoh
Nerlens Noel Trade

Author Topic: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over  (Read 20108 times)

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Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2014, 09:29:11 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I am on board in what Who is selling.

If we cant get Gortat or Sanders, let's go for Kosta Koufos. He's solid. He's not going to blow you away with anything but he'll hold his own, defend solidly and provide some size and length down low.

Then try and sign either Jason Smith or Andris Biedrins to be the backups.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2014, 09:31:27 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Seraphim kills us, but I would wager the rest of the league not so much.   He is good against the C's though but isn't he only 6'9"?   That is more PF than C.

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2014, 09:36:53 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I think most of those options are unrealistic. I'd go with a cheap veteran. There's a lot of young players on this team. We could use some veteran leadership for our young bigs. I like the idea of Okeafor. Defense first, rebounding, and veteran leadership. Oden could be worth a gamble as well. We are gonna suck next year anyways. No harm in giving him a shot and hoping we get lucky.

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2014, 09:54:14 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Henson if he can add 20 pounds can play center. But thats a big if. He has a naturally slender body. It tooks kg years to get to 240 and at times sully had to defend heavier guys

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2014, 10:03:52 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Henson if he can add 20 pounds can play center. But thats a big if. He has a naturally slender body. It tooks kg years to get to 240 and at times sully had to defend heavier guys

Noah came in a 223 lb bean pole. He's an absolutely dominant beast at 234lbs.


Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2014, 10:05:49 PM »

Offline jay

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What about a popular target on here from a couple of years ago?  Fesenko?

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2014, 10:06:48 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Trade for Noah Vonleh....position fixed....

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #67 on: June 28, 2014, 02:36:05 AM »

Offline CM0

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I vote for Olynyk bulking up by 15 lbs and getting more minutes at the 5. Far better than a one-year stop-gap IMO. He's already better offensively than all but 2-3 FA centers. Give him as many minutes as possible and see if he can develop defensively.

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #68 on: June 28, 2014, 03:11:03 AM »

Offline Hawkeye199

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Gorgui Dieng is a great young center
zach lavine-jeremy lin-tyus jones
jeremy lamb-tyshen prince-Andre miller
will barton- beljina-
Kevin love-kevin garnet-payne
Karl anthoney Towns-JJ hickson

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2014, 05:24:31 AM »

Offline makaveli

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Get Detroit Greg Monroe !!! I love that guy, a true center
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2014, 07:14:29 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Gorgui Dieng is a great young center

He's neither great or that young. He'll be 25 before the all-star break. His age is the reason he went so late in the draft in the first place. He has some upside, but nowhere near the amount some on this board suggest due to his age.

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2014, 10:45:05 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I'm actually going to make a completely different suggestion that isn't on this list - trade for Josh Smith.  Yes, I know you're all going to think I'm crazy but hear me out, for I have my reasons... 

A: Value
First of all, Detroit pretty much HAS TO get rid of one of their starting front court players.  Drummond is pretty much untouchable, which leaves Monroe and Smith as potential trade options.

Monroe is younger (more upside) plus he can stretch the floor with his shooting as well as score in the post, and he's also a very good passer.  This offensive versatility makes him a very nice fit alongside Andre Drummond, who is a more defensive oriented big.

All this means that Detroit's unquestionable preference would be to trade Smith, not Monroe.  Because of this (and the fact that they absolutley cannot keep all three and succeed) it means that Josh Smith would most likely be available for a major bargain.  Detroit would probably be happy to give Smith up for almost nothing if it means getting his salary off their books, so a combination of Hump's expiring contract, Bogan's non-guaranteed contract and a second round pick might be all it takes to get Smith in Boston Green. Even if it means upgrading that pick to the Clippers 1st rounder, that's still a bargain deal to bring in a player of Smith's calibre. 

B - Rebutting Smith's reputation as an inefficient scorer
The biggest reason for people don't like Josh Smith is because he's seen a highly inefficient scorer - a guy who takes too many jumpers (especially threes).  This was really highlighted in Detroit last season when he shot a career worst 42% from the field and equally poor 26% from three (on a ghastly 3.4 3PA per game). 

Lets take a look at those with a little more depth.

Firstly, perimeter shooting is one of Smith's well documented weaknesses.  He's not incapable of hitting the odd open jumper (from midrange or from three) but it's certainly not something you focus your offense around. 

However one area Smith does excel is inside the paint.  In the paint, over his past 4 seasons, Josh Smith has shot:

2010-11: 69%
2011-12: 69%
2012-13: 77%
2013-14: 71%

Over his entire career Smith has shot a very impressive 67% in that 0-3 foot range, and has never shot below about 60% in that area.

Smith's struggles in Detroit came from the the fact that he was forced to play the SF position, leaving him with no chioce but to spend more time on the perimeter.  With a role like this, Smith was doomed from the start to be nothing but horribly inefficient.  Lets check the stats to prove it.

In seasons where Smith has predominantly played SF, his per-36 minute averages have been:

15.1 Pts
7.9 Reb
3.0 Ast
2.5 Blk
1.2 Stl
43% FG
 
In seasons where Smith has predominantly played PF, his per-36 minute averages have been:

17.2 Pts
8.6 Reb
3.7 Ast
2.0 Blk
1.4 Stl
47% FG

Smith has has had production in every statistical area (bar blocks) in the season's where he's played mostly at the PF spot, but the two numbers that stand out the most are his scoring and shotting percentages.  Not only has he scored 2 PPG more as a PF, but he's also shot a whopping 4% more efficiently.   

There is no doubt about it - for Josh Smith to produce at his best, he needs to be starting at the PF spot.  In Boston that's exactly where he would be - down low, in the paint.

For those who are worried about replacing Sully with Smith...Sully's 3PA, 3P% and FG% from last season were all on par with what Smith shot last year as a SF.  Even in his absolute worst case, Smith's still won't make you cringe any more than Sully already does. 


C - Rim protection
I really like our overall lineup right now, but the one thing I think we're really lacking is a rim protector to put alongside Sully/Olynyk. 

The traditional way of adding a rim protector is to look for a big center, which makes perfect sense given that optimally you don't want either Sully nor Olynyk playing center.  But I ran some numbers to work out who are the best 'rim protection' in the NBA by checking which players allowed the lowest FG% at the rim. 

To ensure there are no bogus numbers coming from small sample sizes, I filtered players using the following criteria:

1) At least 40 games played and 20 MPG (eliminate the small sample of guys who didn't play much)

2) Players who had at least 3 Opponent FG's attempted at the rim per game (eliminate the guards and swingmen who's figures are skewed by small sample size)

The end results for the top 20 rim protectors were as follows:

1- Roy Hibbert - 41.4%
2 - Robin Lopez - 42.5%
3 - Giannis Antetokounmpo - 43.5%
4 - Serge Ibaka - 43.9%
5 - Tiago Splitter - 44.1%
6 - Andrew Bogus - 45%
7 - Taj Gibson - 45.7%
8 - John Henson - 46.3%
9 - Joakim Noah - 46.8%
10 - Timofey Mosgov - 46.9%
11 - David West - 47%
12 - Josh Smith - 47.1%
13 - Kevin Garnett - 47.4%
14 - Tim Duncan - 47.6%
15 - Omer Asik - 47.7%
16 - Dwight Howard - 47.8%
17 - Amir Johnson - 47.9%
18 - Jermaine Oneal - 47.9%
19 - Paul Pierce - 48.2%
20 - Jason Thompson - 48.3%

No, your eyes do not decieve you. 

According to pure statistics, Josh Smith was a slightly better rim protector last season then:

Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Omer Asik
Dwight Howard

He also ranked only slightly below the reigning DPOTY, Joakim Noah. 

By comparison our current bigs ranked as follows:

Kris Humphries - 50.8%
Jared Sullinger - 53.9%
Brandon Bass - 54.1% 
Kelly Olynyk - 56.3%

He's not the first person you think of because of his lack of imposing size (realistically, closer to 6'8") but statistics show that Josh Smith is an ELITE rim protector.  His impressive length and insane athleticism (and surprising strength) allow him to challenge shots better than most 7 footers out there, and he also managed to do that without getting himself in to foul trouble  (2.8 FPG for his career).

Suddenly the thought of combining Josh Smith with somebody like Kelly Olynyk starts to make quite a bit of sense.  Not only does Smith have the ability to protect the rim as well as any big man out there, but he also has the quickness to switch on picks and defend opposing centers, small forwards or even shooting guards.  This would go a long way to masking Olynyk's limitations, and would Stevens to start Olynyk at the center spot, knowing that Smith has his back if he slips up. 

D - Perimeter Defense and rebounding
If there's one thing we do know about Marcus Smart, it's that he's one hell of a defender.  He's got the combination of strength and athleticism to defend either guard spot, and could even step out and guard the off small foward from time to time (much like Tony Allen does).

At SG we have Avery Bradley, a guy who (at 22 years old) has already made an All-Defensive team. 

At SF we have Jeff Green - a highly underrated defensive player who has shown on countless occasions that he's capable of slowing (or shutting down) even the most dominant superstar small forwards.

Now you add Josh Smith at the PF spot. 

Right now it doesn't even matter who your center is - that's an elite defensive team.

E - Rebounding
Small sample size, but Kelly Olynyk averaged about 9.5 rebounds per 36 minutes last season. 

Josh Smith has averaged 8.5 RPG in seasons over his career when playing the PF spot.  Avery

Bradley from memory ranked top 5 among all NBA guards last year in rebounding (just over 4 per game).

Marcus Smart was a beast on the boards in college. 

Throw in Jeff Green's typical 6 RPG and you're getting about 33 boards a night from your stating 5. 

If you can get another 15 boards from your bench (by no means unrealistic) then you have a pretty good rebouding team too.

F - Transition game
Now we're getting to the fun part.  Once this elite defensive lineup gets a stop, you have two bigs (Josh Smith and Kelly Olynyk) who are both exceptional - maybe even elite - passing big men ready to throw the outlet pass.  Hell, even Olynyk has shown he's very willing (and suprisingly fast) runner in transition. 

Marcus Smart, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green, Josh Smith - you'll be putting points on the board before your opponent even knew what happened.

On the other end of the court, those four guys will be entertaining you will so many chase-down blocks that you'll be hitting the replay button over, and over, and over, and over....

I know it seems crazy but again, I actually really think Smith would fit in incredibly well here - with or without Rondo.   It seems like the perfect situation to bring the best out of him, and he'd be available on the cheap.

If not smith, then the next guys I'd go for (in order) are:

Gortat (only other player who can win you games on both ends of the court)
Noah (defense definately helps cover for Olynyk/Sully)
Monroe (Give us much needed post presense and front court scoring)
Okafor (if budget is limited, he's a nice pickup)

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2014, 10:50:05 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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Get Detroit Greg Monroe !!! I love that guy, a true center

true center who is a avg defender at best , and not a shot blocker?

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2014, 10:59:03 AM »

Offline bhbf08

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Maybe Danny knows Marcus Smart is going to be a really, really good player and I bet after this year or half way through he'll have more trade value than the #4 and #5 picks ahead of him.  Heck, maybe even more than #1 or #3.  Wiggins is an athletic freak, but is he a 25 pt scorer?  Or is he a solid defender who scores 16-18ppg ?  Who knows.  Jabari seems more likely to be a 25 point guy, but can he round out the rest of his game?  Embiid?   Who knows!

Re: How Boston Celtics can fix the Center position now that Draft is over
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2014, 01:26:34 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Maybe Danny knows Marcus Smart is going to be a really, really good player and I bet after this year or half way through he'll have more trade value than the #4 and #5 picks ahead of him.  Heck, maybe even more than #1 or #3.  Wiggins is an athletic freak, but is he a 25 pt scorer?  Or is he a solid defender who scores 16-18ppg ?  Who knows.  Jabari seems more likely to be a 25 point guy, but can he round out the rest of his game?  Embiid?   Who knows!

My predictions?

Wiggins will be a 18/6/2 guy who plays solid (not necessarilly elite) defense. Bit of a poor-mans Paul George.

Parker will top out at around 21/7/3 but will be known as a pretty mediocre defender.

Exum is hard to say.  I think he might get up around the 20/5/7 range while also being a very good defender - will probably come close to leading the league in steals.  I feel he might prove to be the crown jewel of this draft.

Embiid could also be the top guy of the draft, if he stays healthy.  If healthy I can see him being an 20/10/1.5 guy while also averaging around 2.5 blocks per game.

Randle I think will probably be a 15/9 guy but I think he'll have limited impact due to his one-dimensional game.  He doesn't have the post moves Z-Bo has, relies much more on physicality which will not be an advantage in this league most nights.  He'll maybe get up around what Sully is at now (per 36) and MAYBE slightly better, but not much.

Smart could be another surprise.  I can picture him being about a 17/5/4 guy, but I also see him making multiple All-Defensive teams.  Maybe a bit of a Bradley Beal meets Tyreke Evans meets Tony Allen type.  I think he'll improve his jumper. Don't think he'll ever be a 40% three point shooter, but I think he might end up a 46%/35%/78% guy.

Vonleh is a wild card.  I could see him becoming a 21/12 guy while also averaging 2 blocks a night.  He's just too versatile offensively (and too gifted physically) to bust.  It's once a generation that you find a 7 footer who can score in the post, hit the three consistently, block 2 shots a game, and lead the college class in rebounding...while having freakish physical attributes.  I think he'll become a bonafide all star.  Imagine if Chris Bosh had a 260lb body, developed a skilled post game, and still rebounded the way he did in Toronto.  That's what I see Vonleh becoming.