Author Topic: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery  (Read 325835 times)

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Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #330 on: May 01, 2015, 09:20:14 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Hear ye hear ye

Chandler Parsons (knee) had arthroscopic knee surgery on Friday morning.
Advice: This is good news that he didn't have microfracture surgery. The Mavs did not give a timetable for his recovery, but generally knee scopes require 4-6 weeks off. That means he should be ready to roll in a couple months. Parsons should have more fantasy value with Rajon Rondo out of town



Yes. He is on the block

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #331 on: May 02, 2015, 04:17:06 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'm interested to see if somebody can come up with a 3 way trade this offseason to match ours from last year.
I want to do that again
I'm happy to be the team that gives up garbage and gets two 1sts.

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #332 on: May 04, 2015, 08:32:52 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I'm interested to see if somebody can come up with a 3 way trade this offseason to match ours from last year.
I want to do that again
I'm happy to be the team that gives up garbage and gets two 1sts.

Why you gotta go an be like that?
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #333 on: May 04, 2015, 10:23:05 AM »

Offline mkogav

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I'm interested to see if somebody can come up with a 3 way trade this offseason to match ours from last year.
I want to do that again
I'm happy to be the team that gives up garbage and gets two 1sts.

Why you gotta go an be like that?

I'm in for a 4-team'r.

Mk

Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #334 on: May 04, 2015, 11:09:44 AM »

Offline mkogav

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The Utah Flash front office is always open, willing to discuss, and perhaps agree upon trades. I don't expect anything concrete until at least after the NBA Draft Lottery, but you never know.

These are the current UF assets & availability of those assets. I will update these lists as needed:

Nope
Elfrid Payton
Marcus Smart
Dennis Schröder
Andre Drummond
Gordon Hayward
Rudy Gobert

Listening With Half An Ear
Robert Covington
Evan Fournier
Kelly "Goon Squad" Olynyk

Wont Sell Low, But I Will Listen
Lance Stephenson

Probably Wont Consider Moving Until RFA Is Settled
Will Barton

Prospects That You Will Be Happy To Over-Pay For
Mike Muscala
James Ennis
Nikola Jokic
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Walter Tavares

2015 Draft Picks
#22 (Rondo's #2)

2016 Draft Picks
UF #1 (projected #12 based on 2014 finish)
UF #2 (projected #32 based on 2014 finish)


Operators are standing by...





Mk
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 01:34:08 PM by mkogav »

Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #335 on: May 04, 2015, 02:34:50 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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The Utah Flash front office is always open, willing to discuss, and perhaps agree upon trades. I don't expect anything concrete until at least after the NBA Draft Lottery, but you never know.

These are the current UF assets & availability of those assets. I will update these lists as needed:

Nope
Elfrid Payton
Marcus Smart
Dennis Schröder
Andre Drummond
Gordon Hayward
Rudy Gobert

Listening With Half An Ear
Robert Covington
Evan Fournier
Kelly "Goon Squad" Olynyk

Wont Sell Low, But I Will Listen
Lance Stephenson

Probably Wont Consider Moving Until RFA Is Settled
Will Barton

Prospects That You Will Be Happy To Over-Pay For
Mike Muscala
James Ennis
Nikola Jokic
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Walter Tavares

2015 Draft Picks
#22 (Rondo's #2)

2016 Draft Picks
UF #1 (projected #12 based on 2014 finish)
UF #2 (projected #32 based on 2014 finish)


Operators are standing by...





Mk

whoever traded that Elfrid Payton is a real bozo
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #336 on: May 04, 2015, 03:13:56 PM »

Offline mkogav

  • Jim Loscutoff
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The Utah Flash front office is always open, willing to discuss, and perhaps agree upon trades. I don't expect anything concrete until at least after the NBA Draft Lottery, but you never know.

These are the current UF assets & availability of those assets. I will update these lists as needed:

Nope
Elfrid Payton
Marcus Smart
Dennis Schröder
Andre Drummond
Gordon Hayward
Rudy Gobert

Listening With Half An Ear
Robert Covington
Evan Fournier
Kelly "Goon Squad" Olynyk

Wont Sell Low, But I Will Listen
Lance Stephenson

Probably Wont Consider Moving Until RFA Is Settled
Will Barton

Prospects That You Will Be Happy To Over-Pay For
Mike Muscala
James Ennis
Nikola Jokic
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Walter Tavares

2015 Draft Picks
#22 (Rondo's #2)

2016 Draft Picks
UF #1 (projected #12 based on 2014 finish)
UF #2 (projected #32 based on 2014 finish)


Operators are standing by...





Mk

whoever traded that Elfrid Payton is a real bozo

Haha, not sure about that. Long way to go to judge that one

Mk aka

Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #337 on: May 08, 2015, 10:57:29 AM »

Offline mkogav

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« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 04:40:22 PM by mkogav »

Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #338 on: May 15, 2015, 12:26:20 PM »

Offline yall hate

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Draft lottery is in 5 days.  4 teams have the top 10 pre-lotto picks.



Bellevue's calculations: http://i.imgur.com/xkkSNGo.png

Pre-Lotto Rankings

#1 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Toine's boys) = Minnesota Timberwolves
#2 - Lovetotrade = New York Knicks
#3 - Lovetotrade (via Make Me Some Bacon) = Philly 76ers
#4 - Bellevue Leprechauns = LA Lakers
#5 - Lucky Strikes = Orlando Magic
#6 - Lovetotrade (via Dirty Digs Disciples) = Sacramento Kings
#7 - Lucky Strikes (via Webskins) = Denver Nuggets
#8 - Ya'll Hate (via Brahma Bull!) = Detroit Pistons
#9 - Lucky Strikes (via Kwhit10) = Charlotte Hornets
#10 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Jackalopes) = Miami Heat
#11 - ChampKind's X-Tacles = Jazz/Pacers
#12 - Lovetotrade (via Utah Flash) = Jazz/Pacers
#13 - Bada Bing = Phoenix Suns
#14 - Tyrion's Team (via Birdman) = Oklahoma City Thunder
-----
#15 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Ya'll Hate)
#16 - Lovetotrade (via Tyrion's Team)
#17 - Tyrion's Team (via Designated Drinkers)
#18 - Lucky Strikes - (via Ubuntu Y'all!)
#19 - Lovetotrade (via Juggernauts)
#20 - Pittsburgh Pisces
#21 - Pittsburgh Pisces (via Toine's Boys)
#22 - Utah Flash (via Lovetotrade)
#23 - Make Me Some Bacon
#24 - Dirty Digs Disciples (via Bellevue Leprechauns)
#25 - Lucky Strikes
#26 - Make Me Some Bacon (via Dirty Digs Disciples)
#27 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Webskins)
#28 - Brahma Bull!!
#29 - Lucky Strikes (via Kwhit10)
#30 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Jackalopes)
#31 - ChampKind's X-Tacles
#32 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Utah Flash)
#33 - Bada Bing
#34 - Birdman
#35 - Juggernauts (via Y'all Hate)
#36 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Tyrion's Team)
#37 - ChampKind's X-Tacles (via Designated Drinkers)
#38 - Ubuntu Y'all!
#39 - Juggernauts
#40 - Lovetotrade (via Pittsburgh Pisces)

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #339 on: May 15, 2015, 03:58:25 PM »

Offline 33-00-32

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Not too bad, moved up two spots and into the lottery with adjusted numbers. Come on lucky balls!
G:Kemba,Payton,Hairston,Henderson,Lin
F:Parker,MKG,Budinger,Mirotic,Salmons
C:R.Lopez,Biyombo,Hickson
Coach: Shaka Smart
Rights to: Bog Bog


Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #340 on: May 15, 2015, 08:39:24 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Draft lottery is in 5 days.  4 teams have the top 10 pre-lotto picks.



Bellevue's calculations: http://i.imgur.com/xkkSNGo.png

Pre-Lotto Rankings

#1 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Toine's boys) = Minnesota Timberwolves
#2 - Lovetotrade = New York Knicks
#3 - Lovetotrade (via Make Me Some Bacon) = Philly 76ers
#4 - Bellevue Leprechauns = LA Lakers
#5 - Lucky Strikes = Orlando Magic
#6 - Lovetotrade (via Dirty Digs Disciples) = Sacramento Kings
#7 - Lucky Strikes (via Webskins) = Denver Nuggets
#8 - Ya'll Hate (via Brahma Bull!) = Detroit Pistons
#9 - Lucky Strikes (via Kwhit10) = Charlotte Hornets
#10 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Jackalopes) = Miami Heat
#11 - ChampKind's X-Tacles = Pacers
#12 - Lovetotrade (via Utah Flash) = Jazz
#13 - Bada Bing = Phoenix Suns
#14 - Tyrion's Team (via Birdman) = Oklahoma City Thunder
-----
#15 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Ya'll Hate)
#16 - Lovetotrade (via Tyrion's Team)
#17 - Tyrion's Team (via Designated Drinkers)
#18 - Lucky Strikes - (via Ubuntu Y'all!)
#19 - Lovetotrade (via Juggernauts)
#20 - Pittsburgh Pisces
#21 - Pittsburgh Pisces (via Toine's Boys)
#22 - Utah Flash (via Lovetotrade)
#23 - Make Me Some Bacon
#24 - Dirty Digs Disciples (via Bellevue Leprechauns)
#25 - Lucky Strikes
#26 - Make Me Some Bacon (via Dirty Digs Disciples)
#27 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Webskins)
#28 - Brahma Bull!!
#29 - Lucky Strikes (via Kwhit10)
#30 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Jackalopes)
#31 - ChampKind's X-Tacles
#32 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Utah Flash)
#33 - Bada Bing
#34 - Birdman
#35 - Juggernauts (via Y'all Hate)
#36 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Tyrion's Team)
#37 - ChampKind's X-Tacles (via Designated Drinkers)
#38 - Ubuntu Y'all!
#39 - Juggernauts
#40 - Lovetotrade (via Pittsburgh Pisces)
Fyi, Pacers won the tiebreaker coin toss with the Jazz so the 11th odds are associated with pacers and 12th are associated with jazz.  Edited the quote to reflect that

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #341 on: May 16, 2015, 02:09:44 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Maybe
Draft lottery is in 5 days.  4 teams have the top 10 pre-lotto picks.



Bellevue's calculations: http://i.imgur.com/xkkSNGo.png

Pre-Lotto Rankings

#1 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Toine's boys) = Minnesota Timberwolves
#2 - Lovetotrade = New York Knicks
#3 - Lovetotrade (via Make Me Some Bacon) = Philly 76ers
#4 - Bellevue Leprechauns = LA Lakers
#5 - Lucky Strikes = Orlando Magic
#6 - Lovetotrade (via Dirty Digs Disciples) = Sacramento Kings
#7 - Lucky Strikes (via Webskins) = Denver Nuggets
#8 - Ya'll Hate (via Brahma Bull!) = Detroit Pistons
#9 - Lucky Strikes (via Kwhit10) = Charlotte Hornets
#10 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Jackalopes) = Miami Heat
#11 - ChampKind's X-Tacles = Pacers
#12 - Lovetotrade (via Utah Flash) = Jazz
#13 - Bada Bing = Phoenix Suns
#14 - Tyrion's Team (via Birdman) = Oklahoma City Thunder
-----
#15 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Ya'll Hate)
#16 - Lovetotrade (via Tyrion's Team)
#17 - Tyrion's Team (via Designated Drinkers)
#18 - Lucky Strikes - (via Ubuntu Y'all!)
#19 - Lovetotrade (via Juggernauts)
#20 - Pittsburgh Pisces
#21 - Pittsburgh Pisces (via Toine's Boys)
#22 - Utah Flash (via Lovetotrade)
#23 - Make Me Some Bacon
#24 - Dirty Digs Disciples (via Bellevue Leprechauns)
#25 - Lucky Strikes
#26 - Make Me Some Bacon (via Dirty Digs Disciples)
#27 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Webskins)
#28 - Brahma Bull!!
#29 - Lucky Strikes (via Kwhit10)
#30 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Jackalopes)
#31 - ChampKind's X-Tacles
#32 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Utah Flash)
#33 - Bada Bing
#34 - Birdman
#35 - Juggernauts (via Y'all Hate)
#36 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Tyrion's Team)
#37 - ChampKind's X-Tacles (via Designated Drinkers)
#38 - Ubuntu Y'all!
#39 - Juggernauts
#40 - Lovetotrade (via Pittsburgh Pisces)
Fyi, Pacers won the tiebreaker coin toss with the Jazz so the 11th odds are associated with pacers and 12th are associated with jazz.  Edited the quote to reflect that


It's possible that since becoming the commish of the h2h league I missed a discussion that led to this current Games Missed/Adj. formula but there are 2 things that I think are not working --- that I figured I'd ask about (maybe I'm missing somethig) before suggesting a change for next year.

Here's the relevant part from the Const.:

Quote
a. Draft order placement will first be determined by inverse order of finish (e.g., worst team 1st, second-worst team 2nd, and so on) after team point totals have been adjusted by factoring in points lost due to unused remaining games at each position. For each unused game, a team?s point total will be increased by that team?s average team points per game during the season. For example, if a team finishes the season with 10 unused games, and received an average player score of 30 points per game, then that team?s final adjusted score would be raised by 300 points. Team who have more than 75 unused games will be ineligible to keep a top-3 pick should they finish with one after the lottery (however, should such a team have traded away the rights to such a pick, the team holding those rights will not be so penalized).

1. Games Missed Threshold --- I thought originally there was going to be a threshold that a team had to miss. IMO the goal is to get teams to be active and get close to the 902 total. I'd personally suggest that a team that misses 50 or fewer games --- or a little less than 5 games per position (11 total positions) need not have their total adjusted. They are playing 95% of their games. In fact, 9 of the top 10 teams missed fewer than 50 games out of 902.

It doesn't make sense that a team like the Juggernauts LOSES a draft spot after finishing 3rd and missing 27 games while mulitiple teams missing 100+ games don't drop ANY spots.


2. Team vs. League-wide Average Player Score (APS) -- More importantly i don't think it makes sense to use a team's APS. When we first discussed adjusting point totals I thought we'd discussed using a league-wide average.

I'd suggest that a team-based APS rewards teams who are both missing lots of games AND not improving the talent on their team. The APS they are being adjusted with are LOWER than a random player they could get off the waiver wire and play -- so they're benefitting from missing games until they get better players.

Consider that by using the TEAM APS only 1 of the 6 teams missing more than 70 games (Jackalopes) lost more than 1 draft slot, 2 of the 6 lost 1 spot and 1 team (who missed 72 games) IMPROVED a draft spot. Meanwhile a team that played all 902 games lost 3 spots:



Look instead what happens if we used a League wide APS (430,238 tot. points DIV BY 16,887 games = 25.4 ppg adjustment):



Teams like Webskins and #Lovetotrade who had low point totals but also didn't miss many games (i.e. were active but bad) move up, while the 4 of the 6 teams missing 70+ games are penalized, 1 stays the same and 1 moves up 2 spots (by virtue of jumping 2 teams missing 121+ games each).

Moving forward this would be my suggestion of how to adjust the point totals -- it incentivizes teams at the bottom to have active rosters, even if they start low performing players; and penalizes most the teams that miss lots of games AND have low point totals (since
GC's Yahoo! H2h League: Gainesville Celtics: 2014, 2016, 2017 Champs!

GC's Yahoo! H2h League permanent website (offseason roster, constitution, etc.) * Lucky was framed!

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #342 on: May 16, 2015, 08:34:22 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Maybe
Draft lottery is in 5 days.  4 teams have the top 10 pre-lotto picks.



Bellevue's calculations: http://i.imgur.com/xkkSNGo.png

Pre-Lotto Rankings

#1 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Toine's boys) = Minnesota Timberwolves
#2 - Lovetotrade = New York Knicks
#3 - Lovetotrade (via Make Me Some Bacon) = Philly 76ers
#4 - Bellevue Leprechauns = LA Lakers
#5 - Lucky Strikes = Orlando Magic
#6 - Lovetotrade (via Dirty Digs Disciples) = Sacramento Kings
#7 - Lucky Strikes (via Webskins) = Denver Nuggets
#8 - Ya'll Hate (via Brahma Bull!) = Detroit Pistons
#9 - Lucky Strikes (via Kwhit10) = Charlotte Hornets
#10 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Jackalopes) = Miami Heat
#11 - ChampKind's X-Tacles = Pacers
#12 - Lovetotrade (via Utah Flash) = Jazz
#13 - Bada Bing = Phoenix Suns
#14 - Tyrion's Team (via Birdman) = Oklahoma City Thunder
-----
#15 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Ya'll Hate)
#16 - Lovetotrade (via Tyrion's Team)
#17 - Tyrion's Team (via Designated Drinkers)
#18 - Lucky Strikes - (via Ubuntu Y'all!)
#19 - Lovetotrade (via Juggernauts)
#20 - Pittsburgh Pisces
#21 - Pittsburgh Pisces (via Toine's Boys)
#22 - Utah Flash (via Lovetotrade)
#23 - Make Me Some Bacon
#24 - Dirty Digs Disciples (via Bellevue Leprechauns)
#25 - Lucky Strikes
#26 - Make Me Some Bacon (via Dirty Digs Disciples)
#27 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Webskins)
#28 - Brahma Bull!!
#29 - Lucky Strikes (via Kwhit10)
#30 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Jackalopes)
#31 - ChampKind's X-Tacles
#32 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Utah Flash)
#33 - Bada Bing
#34 - Birdman
#35 - Juggernauts (via Y'all Hate)
#36 - Bellevue Leprechauns (via Tyrion's Team)
#37 - ChampKind's X-Tacles (via Designated Drinkers)
#38 - Ubuntu Y'all!
#39 - Juggernauts
#40 - Lovetotrade (via Pittsburgh Pisces)
Fyi, Pacers won the tiebreaker coin toss with the Jazz so the 11th odds are associated with pacers and 12th are associated with jazz.  Edited the quote to reflect that


It's possible that since becoming the commish of the h2h league I missed a discussion that led to this current Games Missed/Adj. formula but there are 2 things that I think are not working --- that I figured I'd ask about (maybe I'm missing somethig) before suggesting a change for next year.

Here's the relevant part from the Const.:

Quote
a. Draft order placement will first be determined by inverse order of finish (e.g., worst team 1st, second-worst team 2nd, and so on) after team point totals have been adjusted by factoring in points lost due to unused remaining games at each position. For each unused game, a team?s point total will be increased by that team?s average team points per game during the season. For example, if a team finishes the season with 10 unused games, and received an average player score of 30 points per game, then that team?s final adjusted score would be raised by 300 points. Team who have more than 75 unused games will be ineligible to keep a top-3 pick should they finish with one after the lottery (however, should such a team have traded away the rights to such a pick, the team holding those rights will not be so penalized).

1. Games Missed Threshold --- I thought originally there was going to be a threshold that a team had to miss. IMO the goal is to get teams to be active and get close to the 902 total. I'd personally suggest that a team that misses 50 or fewer games --- or a little less than 5 games per position (11 total positions) need not have their total adjusted. They are playing 95% of their games. In fact, 9 of the top 10 teams missed fewer than 50 games out of 902.

It doesn't make sense that a team like the Juggernauts LOSES a draft spot after finishing 3rd and missing 27 games while mulitiple teams missing 100+ games don't drop ANY spots.


2. Team vs. League-wide Average Player Score (APS) -- More importantly i don't think it makes sense to use a team's APS. When we first discussed adjusting point totals I thought we'd discussed using a league-wide average.

I'd suggest that a team-based APS rewards teams who are both missing lots of games AND not improving the talent on their team. The APS they are being adjusted with are LOWER than a random player they could get off the waiver wire and play -- so they're benefitting from missing games until they get better players.

Consider that by using the TEAM APS only 1 of the 6 teams missing more than 70 games (Jackalopes) lost more than 1 draft slot, 2 of the 6 lost 1 spot and 1 team (who missed 72 games) IMPROVED a draft spot. Meanwhile a team that played all 902 games lost 3 spots:



Look instead what happens if we used a League wide APS (430,238 tot. points DIV BY 16,887 games = 25.4 ppg adjustment):



Teams like Webskins and #Lovetotrade who had low point totals but also didn't miss many games (i.e. were active but bad) move up, while the 4 of the 6 teams missing 70+ games are penalized, 1 stays the same and 1 moves up 2 spots (by virtue of jumping 2 teams missing 121+ games each).

Moving forward this would be my suggestion of how to adjust the point totals -- it incentivizes teams at the bottom to have active rosters, even if they start low performing players; and penalizes most the teams that miss lots of games AND have low point totals (since
I have a better than average understanding of how adjusted standings currently works... and even after reading your post twice, I'm still not totally getting you.   Help me understand what your issue is.

For example, you say: 

"It doesn't make sense that a team like the Juggernauts LOSES a draft spot after finishing 3rd"

Why doesn't that make sense?

Ubuntu had 27761.05 points with 901 games played.  Average player score of 30.81
Juggernauts had 27039.00 points with 875 games played.  Average player score of 30.90

Ubuntu finished 2nd in total points.   Juggs finished 3rd in total points.

So your question seems to be, why does the Juggs pick get penalized (effectly making it 2nd to last as opposed to 3rd to last)?

He missed 27 games.  Multiply his 27 games by his average player score of 30.90... it adds some points and penalizes his draft pick.   

He probably ended up getting 27 missed games, because he refused to waste his active roster spots on weaker players.  So, he ends up facing the penalty...

Also, something is whacky with your table.   Using 25.4 as the average would make very minimal difference.   A couple teams swap places (I move from 4 to 3.  Lovetotrade moves from 2 to 1.  Juggs stays 3rd, but BARELY... since he's still receiving a penalty)   WEbskins is picking 7th either way.   http://i.imgur.com/IAudwOA.png

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #343 on: May 16, 2015, 09:02:11 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Gainsville... I'm still trying to grasp your point.  I'll walk through it in my head.

I'll use Toine Boy's as an example.  He finished with 174 missed games.  His average player score was 15.5.   So he receives a penalty on his points where 174x15.5 is added to his adjusted points.   Despite that penalty, his pick was still projected 1st.    I guess what you're saying is that instead of multiplying by 15.5, it should be the league-wide average player score of 25.4.

In that instance, it would BARELY make a difference.  WHen I say barely, I mean that his pick would be projected 2nd, but a mere 30 points in adjusted standings would separate him from Lovetotrade.  Yes, in this instance it makes a slight difference, but not really enough to solve the greater issue.   Switching to that method of adjusting standings next season probably wouldn't hurt, but I still think it would continue to incentivize teams at the top from playing their worst players (like in the case of Juggs).  My thought is, if you're a team at the top that is going to bench all your bad players and finish with 27 missed games... might as well face the wrath of your inflated average player score.   

Really, though, it's not going to make much of a difference at all either way.   We do have a rule in place that makes a bigger difference... it's the 75 missed games rule.  That rule says that if you miss over 75 games, your pick is ineligible for the top 3.  So Toine's boy, for instance, finished with an absurd 174 missed games... it would make his #1 projected pick ineligible for the top 3.  Same with MMSB and his 164 missed games.   There's actually 5 lotto teams this year that finished with over 75 missed games... TB, MMSB, Jacks, Kwhit and Dirty Digglers.... The rule is supposed to penalize them by making them ineligible for a Top 3 pick.  Unfortunately, we have a loop hole in place that says if you trade the pick to a different team, the penalty doesn't carry over.  So in the case of all 5 teams, they all traded their picks away and thus all 5 picks associated with those teams are still eligible for a top 3.

Changing the method of adjusted standings (from team to league average player score) wouldn't make a big difference here.  Since the bottom 5 projected teams are still the bottom 5 projected teams.

While changing the method of adjusting standings would make a minimal impact, I've previously suggested a couple rule changes that could help. 

#1 - Close the 75 missed game loophole.  If a team is projected to miss over 75 missed games already and trades their pick... the penalty should carry over to the team that now owns the pick.  That prevents teams from benching players all season and then moving their highly valuable pick at the deadline.   That rule change would require a second rule that says... if you trade your pick and THEN exceed 75 missed games, the team that now owns your pick shouldn't be penalized... since that would allow teams to sabotage a pick after trading it away.  Of course, that's probably not going to make much of a difference since teams will just trade the pick away when they have 74 projected missed games.

#2 - We should maybe consider stricter penalties in general for missed games.   Jacks and TB, for example, did not attempt to field a competitive team this year.  They played within the rules of the league, but they filled their roster with D-league talent and injured players.   150+ missed games is obscene.   Think about this in context of the real NBA.   The Lakers and 76ers sucked this year, but neither team was allowed to say "well we have a bunch of injuries and our rookies are in the d-league... so we're only suiting up 3 guys tonight".   Having stricter penalties for missed games would force a team like Toine Boy's to make tough choices and say, "[dang]... while I like having guys like Dario Saric, Noah Vonleh, Perry Jones and James young on my team... I also need to field a team of NBA talent.  I need to either trade some of these guys or cut them to sign someone who is actually playing games"... It would be a big change, though... since right now an accepted way of rebuilding in this league is hyper-tanking where you fill your entire roster with injured guys and long-term prospects.   

Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery
« Reply #344 on: May 16, 2015, 10:47:12 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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I have a better than average understanding of how adjusted standings currently works... and even after reading your post twice, I'm still not totally getting you.   Help me understand what your issue is.

For example, you say: 

"It doesn't make sense that a team like the Juggernauts LOSES a draft spot after finishing 3rd"

Why doesn't that make sense?

Ubuntu had 27761.05 points with 901 games played.  Average player score of 30.81
Juggernauts had 27039.00 points with 875 games played.  Average player score of 30.90

Ubuntu finished 2nd in total points.   Juggs finished 3rd in total points.

So your question seems to be, why does the Juggs pick get penalized (effectly making it 2nd to last as opposed to 3rd to last)?

He missed 27 games.  Multiply his 27 games by his average player score of 30.90... it adds some points and penalizes his draft pick.   

I understand the *MATH* of why and how Juggs is being penalized... I just think it doesn't make any sense.

We shouldn't be penalizing missing games --- we should penalize for missing TOO MANY games. (And we can decide collectively what TOO MANY games is... 1, 50, 75, 100...)

IMO the problem is not that any team falls short of the 902 max. The problem is owners who are missing an *excessive* amount of games -- either by not setting lineups b/c they're absent or not setting them on purpose (to get a better draft pick).

(BTW, I don't include "don't have enough good players as a reason to not set a lineup" b/c if you fall in that boat you should still be setting a lineup AND working the waiver wire or making trades to get better players.)

And so since I think the problem is teams missing excessive games (say more than 50-75 games), it just strikes me as a flaw in the system that a team like Juggs who finished 3rd and missed a handful gets penalized while a number of teams who missed 100+ games didn't. (And look, i benefit (mildly) from Juggs being penalized... but i still think it doesn't make sense).


He probably ended up getting 27 missed games, because he refused to waste his active roster spots on weaker players.  So, he ends up facing the penalty...

Without getting too much into gameplay theory in this league (and how i manage my roster), i think it's totally legit for a team to miss 25-50 games or so in a year AND still be active and trying to win or finish as high as they can.

I was trying my best to max out my games to catch Pitts. But that meant planning for who would play when throughout the season. And as it got down to the last few weeks, some of my guys got injured or the schedule didn't allow, say, 3 PGs to play into 2 PG spots.

So IMO there has to be SOME wiggle room.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 11:27:29 PM by Gainesville Celtic »
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