Redskins lose their trademark

[D.o.s.]

Not Sonics fans, I take it?

[fairweatherfan]

I just will never understand though how THIS team will be attacked for having a name that is claimed to be offensive to native americans, when there are native american high schools in Arizona that choose to have their name as Redskins.

Don't know about Arizona but a lot of teams where I grew up (Northern NY) had Native American mascots/team names when I was growing up, and almost all have changed.  It takes longer some places, but it's probably inevitable.

Either way, I don't think the Redskins need to be the last Native American-themed team to change their name for it to be a sincere disagreement with the term.

So do you think the government should tell high schools that are 90% native american that they have to change their name because it is offensive to native american people??  Just wondering.

'Merica...if you're not offended.  we'll be offended for you.

The government isn't telling anyone to change their name, they're enforcing a longstanding law that says you can't claim a trademark on a disparaging term.

America, where my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

[freshinthehouse]

TP all day.  The idea that someone can say with the a straight face that the term redskin is not racist is ridiculous.  Here's a tip for anyone that thinks otherwise.  Drive to your closest Indian reservation.  Go to the nearest restaurant, bar, gas station, etc.  Walk in.  Ask aloud, in general, "Excuse me, folks, is this a Redskin reservation?"  Since you're sure that many Natives are proud of the name and that it is not a racist slur, things should go smoothly.

Please post back with your results.

[greg683x]

TP all day.  The idea that someone can say with the a straight face that the term redskin is not racist is ridiculous.  Here's a tip for anyone that thinks otherwise.  Drive to your closest Indian reservation.  Go to the nearest restaurant, bar, gas station, etc.  Walk in.  Ask aloud, in general, "Excuse me, folks, is this a Redskin reservation?"  Since you're sure that many Natives are proud of the name and that it is not a racist slur, things should go smoothly.

Please post back with your results.

What if I went to a high school full of native americans instead of a bar?  Or restaurant? Does that count?  Theres more people there, we might get a better barometer of how the majority feels......oh im sorry I forgot, you can bring up bars, gas stations, and restaurants, but if I bring up high schools, im avoiding the issue

Bringing up the names of high schools is avoiding the issue.  The question is do many people find the Washington Redskins name and logo racist?  The answer to that is yes.  Does every single Native American feel this way?  Of course not.  But a large number do.  So in my opinion it comes down to whether or not you feel it is okay for a team to have a name that large portion of the race that it is caricaturing find racist. 

Do many people find the name and logo racist??  Whats your definition of many?  A nationwide poll said that 90% said they DONT think it's offensive.  And the logo was designed by a native American!!!

You say a large number of native Americans feel this way, there have been just as many tribes that have come out and said they support the name as their have been tribes that say they find it offensive, plus schools full of native americans that want this as their name (but apparently that's avoiding the issue)
 
You keep saying a large amount of people find this offensive so that's why it needs to be changed.  The largest group by a wide margin DONT find it offensive, so why does the smaller groups opinion matter more?  If that smaller group consisted of solely native americans I could see the reason, but the majority of native Americans are in the larger group.

How about the Vancouver Canucks sir?  Do you find that name offensive?  Ive heard it used in a derogatory way towards Canadian people, but yet Canadians love that team. 

[Moranis]

The Team's gotten this overturned before, but I like it.

Dan Snyder remains stubbornly tone deaf (at best).

Said the deaf man.  Tone deaf would actually be changing the name.  Poll after poll after poll confirms overwhelming support for retaining the name.

yeah but the masses are often wrong on these types of things.

Sometimes.  I don't think they are in this case.  In any event, my comment addressed the observation that Snyder is tone deaf.  A great many Native Americans don't have a problem with it either, and in fact have shown support for Snyder in retaining the name.  I don't particularly care much whether they retain the name or not.  This is more an opportunity for pseudo moral preening than it is about any sort of "hate."  Is anybody really "hating" or disparaging Redskins any more than they are Cowboys, or Irish, etc, etc.

the fact that you are even equating the Redskins with the Cowboys, pretty much proves you can't trust the masses.

It boils down to whether you think the name is a pejorative or not, much as with any other identifying word.  If you associate the word Redskin with negative things, then it's a pejorative, if not, it's not.  If you associated the word Irish with negative things, it'd be a pejorative.  There's a lot of phony outrage that is nothing more than transparent status signaling.

So if I think the "N" word is not negative it is ok to use.  Irish are people from Ireland.  A Redskin is a derogatory term for Native Americans.  They aren't any where close to the same thing.  Again, the fact that you think they are is the reason you can't trust the masses on these things.

[Moranis]

TP all day.  The idea that someone can say with the a straight face that the term redskin is not racist is ridiculous.  Here's a tip for anyone that thinks otherwise.  Drive to your closest Indian reservation.  Go to the nearest restaurant, bar, gas station, etc.  Walk in.  Ask aloud, in general, "Excuse me, folks, is this a Redskin reservation?"  Since you're sure that many Natives are proud of the name and that it is not a racist slur, things should go smoothly.

Please post back with your results.

What if I went to a high school full of native americans instead of a bar?  Or restaurant? Does that count?  Theres more people there, we might get a better barometer of how the majority feels......oh im sorry I forgot, you can bring up bars, gas stations, and restaurants, but if I bring up high schools, im avoiding the issue

Bringing up the names of high schools is avoiding the issue.  The question is do many people find the Washington Redskins name and logo racist?  The answer to that is yes.  Does every single Native American feel this way?  Of course not.  But a large number do.  So in my opinion it comes down to whether or not you feel it is okay for a team to have a name that large portion of the race that it is caricaturing find racist. 

Do many people find the name and logo racist??  Whats your definition of many?  A nationwide poll said that 90% said they DONT think it's offensive.  And the logo was designed by a native American!!!

You say a large number of native Americans feel this way, there have been just as many tribes that have come out and said they support the name as their have been tribes that say they find it offensive, plus schools full of native americans that want this as their name (but apparently that's avoiding the issue)
 
You keep saying a large amount of people find this offensive so that's why it needs to be changed.  The largest group by a wide margin DONT find it offensive, so why does the smaller groups opinion matter more?  If that smaller group consisted of solely native americans I could see the reason, but the majority of native Americans are in the larger group.

How about the Vancouver Canucks sir?  Do you find that name offensive?  Ive heard it used in a derogatory way towards Canadian people, but yet Canadians love that team.

I'm sure if you took a poll of Americans in the 20's, you would find that a large number didn't find the N word racist or offensive as well.  The masses are by and large stupid.  That is why they are the masses.

[greg683x]

TP all day.  The idea that someone can say with the a straight face that the term redskin is not racist is ridiculous.  Here's a tip for anyone that thinks otherwise.  Drive to your closest Indian reservation.  Go to the nearest restaurant, bar, gas station, etc.  Walk in.  Ask aloud, in general, "Excuse me, folks, is this a Redskin reservation?"  Since you're sure that many Natives are proud of the name and that it is not a racist slur, things should go smoothly.

Please post back with your results.

What if I went to a high school full of native americans instead of a bar?  Or restaurant? Does that count?  Theres more people there, we might get a better barometer of how the majority feels......oh im sorry I forgot, you can bring up bars, gas stations, and restaurants, but if I bring up high schools, im avoiding the issue

Bringing up the names of high schools is avoiding the issue.  The question is do many people find the Washington Redskins name and logo racist?  The answer to that is yes.  Does every single Native American feel this way?  Of course not.  But a large number do.  So in my opinion it comes down to whether or not you feel it is okay for a team to have a name that large portion of the race that it is caricaturing find racist. 

Do many people find the name and logo racist??  Whats your definition of many?  A nationwide poll said that 90% said they DONT think it's offensive.  And the logo was designed by a native American!!!

You say a large number of native Americans feel this way, there have been just as many tribes that have come out and said they support the name as their have been tribes that say they find it offensive, plus schools full of native americans that want this as their name (but apparently that's avoiding the issue)
 
You keep saying a large amount of people find this offensive so that's why it needs to be changed.  The largest group by a wide margin DONT find it offensive, so why does the smaller groups opinion matter more?  If that smaller group consisted of solely native americans I could see the reason, but the majority of native Americans are in the larger group.

How about the Vancouver Canucks sir?  Do you find that name offensive?  Ive heard it used in a derogatory way towards Canadian people, but yet Canadians love that team.

I'm sure if you took a poll of Americans in the 20's, you would find that a large number didn't find the N word racist or offensive as well.  The masses are by and large stupid.  That is why they are the masses.

I understand what you're saying and if the poll was 65 to 35% or 70 to 30% I could see how that would come into play.  Also, imo, the n word is a whole different ball game.  No matter how stupid people are nowadays you can't tell me the majority would not be offended if a team chose to use the n word as their name.  When you give your team a name you not only say it's ok we call ourselves that but it's ok for others to call us that as well.  As casual as the n word is used nowadays is doesn't fit those rules, I think even the stupid folks in their 20s would agree about that

[Roy H.]

I understand what you're saying and if the poll was 65 to 35% or 70 to 30% I could see how that would come into play.

The most recent poll asking whether the Redskins should change their name was 71% no / 18% yes / 11% undecided.  That was a poll of registered voters. 

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2013/PPP_Release_National_102.pdf

That's still decisive, but nowhere near the 90% number cited.

[sofutomygaha]

I'm not really buying this any more. Whichever angle you are taking on this issue, the moral imperative is staring you in the face. Redskins supporters, I just don't believe that you are being sincere about this. I promise you'll feel better when you let it go, despite the fact that the Redskins, like the Wizards, are going to seem totally lame for a while and lose all nostalgia for you.

Most Redskins fans these days don't see any similarities between the Snyder-Laurel Maryland-Coach carousel-ing team of today and the Cooke colossus of yesteryear, anyway.

Let it burn. You will be purified.

[D.o.s.]

When you give your team a name you not only say it's ok we call ourselves that but it's ok for others to call us that as well.

I'm holding out for the Washington Mandingos, myself.

[mgent]

I would be a heck of a lot less offended if someone was classifying me by my skin color than I would if they were classifying me by the wrong country over 500 years later.

[greg683x]

I understand what you're saying and if the poll was 65 to 35% or 70 to 30% I could see how that would come into play.

The most recent poll asking whether the Redskins should change their name was 71% no / 18% yes / 11% undecided.  That was a poll of registered voters. 

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2013/PPP_Release_National_102.pdf

That's still decisive, but nowhere near the 90% number cited.

Roy the poll I was referring to was taken by folks who claimed Native American heritage. I'll happily post a link when I get home and am not on a phone.  That being said your poll is the more recent one as mine was taken in 2004.

[Moranis]

TP all day.  The idea that someone can say with the a straight face that the term redskin is not racist is ridiculous.  Here's a tip for anyone that thinks otherwise.  Drive to your closest Indian reservation.  Go to the nearest restaurant, bar, gas station, etc.  Walk in.  Ask aloud, in general, "Excuse me, folks, is this a Redskin reservation?"  Since you're sure that many Natives are proud of the name and that it is not a racist slur, things should go smoothly.

Please post back with your results.

What if I went to a high school full of native americans instead of a bar?  Or restaurant? Does that count?  Theres more people there, we might get a better barometer of how the majority feels......oh im sorry I forgot, you can bring up bars, gas stations, and restaurants, but if I bring up high schools, im avoiding the issue

Bringing up the names of high schools is avoiding the issue.  The question is do many people find the Washington Redskins name and logo racist?  The answer to that is yes.  Does every single Native American feel this way?  Of course not.  But a large number do.  So in my opinion it comes down to whether or not you feel it is okay for a team to have a name that large portion of the race that it is caricaturing find racist. 

Do many people find the name and logo racist??  Whats your definition of many?  A nationwide poll said that 90% said they DONT think it's offensive.  And the logo was designed by a native American!!!

You say a large number of native Americans feel this way, there have been just as many tribes that have come out and said they support the name as their have been tribes that say they find it offensive, plus schools full of native americans that want this as their name (but apparently that's avoiding the issue)
 
You keep saying a large amount of people find this offensive so that's why it needs to be changed.  The largest group by a wide margin DONT find it offensive, so why does the smaller groups opinion matter more?  If that smaller group consisted of solely native americans I could see the reason, but the majority of native Americans are in the larger group.

How about the Vancouver Canucks sir?  Do you find that name offensive?  Ive heard it used in a derogatory way towards Canadian people, but yet Canadians love that team.

I'm sure if you took a poll of Americans in the 20's, you would find that a large number didn't find the N word racist or offensive as well.  The masses are by and large stupid.  That is why they are the masses.

I understand what you're saying and if the poll was 65 to 35% or 70 to 30% I could see how that would come into play.  Also, imo, the n word is a whole different ball game.  No matter how stupid people are nowadays you can't tell me the majority would not be offended if a team chose to use the n word as their name.  When you give your team a name you not only say it's ok we call ourselves that but it's ok for others to call us that as well.  As casual as the n word is used nowadays is doesn't fit those rules, I think even the stupid folks in their 20s would agree about that

I meant the 1920's not people in their 20's.  Sorry for the confusion.  My point was that if you asked people in the 1920's if the N word was racist, you would have gotten a very different result than if you asked people today.  Redskins will follow the same fate.  It is an offensive name that was established in 1933 and has no place in modern society.  Frankly, they can just change the name to something less offensive and keep the logo, color scheme.  You know something like the Braves would work (though I think they would totally change things up if they did actually change the name). 

When the NCAA schools all made the change in the late 90's there was some initial push back, but you don't find many people today still longing for the Miami Redskins (they are now the Miami Redhawks).  If the team was initially named the Washington Negroes, do you still think that would be their name today?

[kozlodoev]

If the team was initially named the Washington Negroes, do you still think that would be their name today?

But it wasn't named that, was it? Perhaps there's a good reason.

[D.o.s.]

If the team was initially named the Washington Negroes, do you still think that would be their name today?

But it wasn't named that, was it? Perhaps there's a good reason.

It's well known that the founder of the Redskins was a racist (via his struggles with integration, and so forth). I'd say that's a very good reason right there.