Redskins lose their trademark

[Smokeeye123]

I've heard about the redskins high school team greg but I wasn't addressing that, just the guy who said 'redskins' as a word has never been Derogative...Which is completely false. I think it is similar to how black people sometimes address themselves in slang as my n-----. Something horrible and racist becomes mainstream and unavoidable so it is kind of embraced.

Also one school and whomever made that sign do not speak for the 500+ native american tribes in the US. In my opinion the percent that thinks it's offensive is enough. There was a report that 10% of natives thought the word was offensive, but mixed races and people raised off reservations were all included in that poll...

I'm sure if they surveyed people only on reservations and in poor and isolated conditions there would be quite a big increase.

[greg683x]

I just will never understand though how THIS team will be attacked for having a name that is claimed to be offensive to native americans, when there are native american high schools in Arizona that choose to have their name as Redskins.

Don't know about Arizona but a lot of teams where I grew up (Northern NY) had Native American mascots/team names when I was growing up, and almost all have changed.  It takes longer some places, but it's probably inevitable.

Either way, I don't think the Redskins need to be the last Native American-themed team to change their name for it to be a sincere disagreement with the term.

So do you think the government should tell high schools that are 90% native american that they have to change their name because it is offensive to native american people??  Just wondering.

'Merica...if you're not offended.  we'll be offended for you.

I know that you mean that as a joke, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. At its worst, it's "social signaling-" fine that's true. At its best, though, it's simply empathy and respect. Regardless of whether it's often abused, the sentiment about the inappropriateness of the Redskins name is still ethically correct.

You don't have to be dead to take justifiable offense when you see someone dancing on a grave.

i understand what you mean, but I dont think the disconnect is that this younger generation isnt historically versed on the history of it.

I think the disconnect is the history of the word itself.  Native Americans have said redskins was a word they called themselves bc they used to paint their skin red before war.  Thats why lots of Natives consider the term redskin a badge of honor and thats the disconnect.  Most natives know the history of the way their people used it......and most americans know the history of the way THEIR ancestors used the word.

[greg683x]

I've heard about the redskins high school team greg but I wasn't addressing that, just the guy who said 'redskins' as a word has never been Derogative...Which is completely false. I think it is similar to how black people sometimes address themselves in slang as my n-----. Something horrible and racist becomes mainstream and unavoidable so it is kind of embraced.

Also one school and whomever made that sign do not speak for the 500+ native american tribes in the US. In my opinion the percent that thinks it's offensive is enough. There was a report that 10% of natives thought the word was offensive, but mixed races and people raised off reservations were all included in that poll...

I'm sure if they surveyed people only on reservations and in poor and isolated conditions there would be quite a big increase.

ok, sorry about the misunderstanding.

in response to the points you made..... (sorry im from the dc area, so this has been a hot button topic around here)

as far as comparing it to the N word.  The unwritten rule about the N word is that only african americans are allowed to say it, and it's certainly not ok to call them the word in any capacity.  When you make that name your mascot, youre not just saying it's to call ourselves that, you're saying youre ok with other people calling you that.  I cant imagine any african american, young or old, being ok with a white guy looking at his high school baseball schedule and saying next weekend we play the ........

Yes these high schools do not speak for the tribes around the US, but there have been many tribes that have come out and said they support the name and would stand with Dan Snyder to keep it.  Other tribes have said theyre redskins fans simply because of the name itself.

I just think the majority should rule on this, and until we get that poll that you were talking about where we see a vote from actual native americans, not people claiming to be bc their grandma said theyre 10% cherokee, we'll never know.

[Mencius]

It boils down to whether you think the name is a pejorative or not, much as with any other identifying word.  If you associate the word Redskin with negative things, then it's a pejorative, if not, it's not.  If you associated the word Irish with negative things, it'd be a pejorative.  There's a lot of phony outrage that is nothing more than transparent status signaling.

I think the issue is more complicated and less phony than you think it is.  A great deal of what leads to prejudice takes place in the subconscious and is based on the formation and confirmation of stereotypes.

What I regard as phony is much of the outrage about this and other issues, as I believe that a vanishingly small percentage of people actually associate the name Redskins in any sort of  pejorative way.   As to stereotypes (be they positive or negative, about people, dogs, horses, whatever thing you happen to be considering) they don't really remain stereotypes if they're obviously false.  Sooner or later, reality, statistics, experience, observation, etc, will trump false beliefs.  Most people can only maintain false beliefs in the absence of evidence.  It's difficult to maintain that something is true when all (or the vast preponderance) of evidence is saying it is false, although where ideology or creed is involved, people can and do believe things that can't withstand scrutiny all the time (or at least they say they believe them, often times for the sake of in-group status,) but back to the 'Skins, the name Redskins has nothing to do with denigration of a people, or of negatively stereotyping them.  These days, Native Americans are portrayed positively, often as brave and spiritual.

This is not a legitimate case of a group being denigrated, or in any way being discriminated against, nor do most Native Americans see themselves as being denigrated by the name.  Native Americans aren't even the ones driving this as a political and social issue.  I call it phony because this is an issue that is driven by some white people, who are signaling to other white people about just how good and right-thinking they are according to the fashions of the day. 

When it involves a historically discriminated against and segregated racial group I think it creates a complex issue and shouldn't be brushed aside.

That's fine, except there's no actual discrimination or denigration involved here.

[D.o.s.]

The Team's gotten this overturned before, but I like it.

Dan Snyder remains stubbornly tone deaf (at best).

Said the deaf man.  Tone deaf would actually be changing the name.  Poll after poll after poll confirms overwhelming support for retaining the name.

Because public opinion is the best barometer.

Wait, wait, now tell me how much more money Dan Snyder gives to Native Americans in charity than I do.

[D.o.s.]

I think MDC is a really good band who covered a really good song on a closely related issue. More people should listen to MDC.

[greg683x]

I think MDC is a really good band who covered a really good song on a closely related issue. More people should listen to MDC.

thats a lot less inflammatory than the original post you made. 

[freshinthehouse]

For the people that are anti changing the name, I am curious if you live in an area with a large Native American population, or if you yourself are a Native American? 

[freshinthehouse]

More people should listen to MDC.

Talk about an inflammatory name...

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

What's next? Ditching Washington's logo because it shows a Native American with red skin? Making the team change its colors, which include red?

[freshinthehouse]

Bringing up the names of high schools is avoiding the issue.  The question is do many people find the Washington Redskins name and logo racist?  The answer to that is yes.  Does every single Native American feel this way?  Of course not.  But a large number do.  So in my opinion it comes down to whether or not you feel it is okay for a team to have a name that large portion of the race that it is caricaturing find racist. 

[D.o.s.]

I think MDC is a really good band who covered a really good song on a closely related issue. More people should listen to MDC.

thats a lot less inflammatory than the original post you made. 

That's why I changed it. 

[D.o.s.]

More people should listen to MDC.

Talk about an inflammatory name...

 
Regardless, band is rad, teenagers make dumb decisions, the sun rises in the east.

[showtime]

If i were Snyder, i would be embarrassed to be known as the Washington Redskins. I would change the name to the Maryland Redskins, or the Virginia Redskins. Anything to do with Washington is just to big an embarrassement to be assocaited with.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

If i were Snyder, i would be embarrassed to be known as the Washington Redskins. I would change the name to the Maryland Redskins, or the Virginia Redskins. Anything to do with Washington is just to big an embarrassement to be assocaited with.

Touche.